Atari Falcon network

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Atari Falcon network

koxman
Hi,

what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?

I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.

Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?

EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.

Thanks for info
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Re: Atari Falcon network

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hi!

On 11/4/19 11:32 PM, Johny Five wrote:
> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>
> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>
> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?

I *think* that one is supported. I remember that during the m68k meeting
we had in 2015 in Bonn Stefan Niestegge had such a card that plugs into
the ROM slot of his Falcon and it worked in Debian.

Maybe Stefan can comment whether this is the card he is using.

Adrian

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Re: Atari Falcon network

Michael Schmitz-4
In reply to this post by koxman
Johny,

both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver. EtherNAT
through the smc91x driver.

Cheers,

     Michael


On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:

> Hi,
>
> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>
> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>
> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>
> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.
>
> Thanks for info

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Re: Atari Falcon network

Mark D
In reply to this post by koxman
I have both an EtherNAT and EtherNEC.  They both work.  Since EtherNEC
works, Netusbee should work. 

I have various problems but I think they are related to my falcon, not
the setup.

I am speaking about hardware wise/in MiNT.  Not sure what works in Linux.

Thanks,
Mark


On 11/4/19 5:32 PM, Johny Five wrote:

> Hi,
>
> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>
> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>
> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>
> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.
>
> Thanks for info


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Re: Atari Falcon network

Stefan Niestegge-2
In reply to this post by Michael Schmitz-4
Hello,

i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and EtherNat work for
Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in TOS/MiNT.

kind regards,
Stefan

Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:

> Johny,
>
> both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver. EtherNAT
> through the smc91x driver.
>
> Cheers,
>
>      Michael
>
>
> On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>>
>> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>>
>> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>>
>> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.
>>
>> Thanks for info
>

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Re: Atari Falcon network

koxman
Is it possible to run linux on stock Falcon?

Does the 14MB RAM update help?

When Falcon is equipped with CT60e + 512MB is there use of that 14MB additional RAM?

Dne út 5. 11. 2019 15:06 uživatel Stefan Niestegge <[hidden email]> napsal:
Hello,

i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and EtherNat work for
Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in TOS/MiNT.

kind regards,
Stefan

Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:
> Johny,
>
> both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver. EtherNAT
> through the smc91x driver.
>
> Cheers,
>
>      Michael
>
>
> On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>>
>> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>>
>> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>>
>> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.
>>
>> Thanks for info
>

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Re: Atari Falcon network

Michael Schmitz-4

Johny,

On 13/11/19 9:24 AM, Johny Five wrote:
Is it possible to run linux on stock Falcon?
No.

Does the 14MB RAM update help?
Only for very old versions of Debian (pre-systemd).

When Falcon is equipped with CT60e + 512MB is there use of that 14MB additional RAM?

Yes - if loading the kernel to that section of RAM. You probably don't want to do that.

Some of the ST-RAM is still used when loading the kernel to the 512 MB FastRAM section (for drivers that require ST-RAM either as DMA buffer or video RAM). The rest is unused - recent patches to change the m68k memory model ought to make it easier to use the ST-RAM as system RAM, but there's still some bits missing.

Cheers,

    Michael Schmitz


Dne út 5. 11. 2019 15:06 uživatel Stefan Niestegge <[hidden email]> napsal:
Hello,

i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and EtherNat work for
Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in TOS/MiNT.

kind regards,
Stefan

Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:
> Johny,
>
> both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver. EtherNAT
> through the smc91x driver.
>
> Cheers,
>
>      Michael
>
>
> On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>>
>> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>>
>> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>>
>> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get one.
>>
>> Thanks for info
>

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Re: Atari Falcon network

Eero Tamminen
Hi,

On 11/13/19 12:26 AM, Michael Schmitz wrote:
> On 13/11/19 9:24 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>> Is it possible to run linux on stock Falcon?
> No.

Linux v5.3 and minimal user-space (e.g. busybox shell as init)
can be run on Falcon with just 8MB of ST-RAM.  I've tested
that in Hatari emulator Falcon emulation mode:
https://git.tuxfamily.org/hatari/hatari.git/plain/doc/m68k-linux-for-hatari.txt


>> Does the 14MB RAM update help?
> Only for very old versions of Debian (pre-systemd).

I think that booting latest Debian to command line prompt, needs
nowadays something like 64MB of TT-RAM, mainly for initfs
(uncompressed it's quite large, and I think the compressed data
is also in RAM until uncompression finishes), but there are also
quite a few processes, tmpfs file systems, and full kernel takes
more memory too.


        - Eero

PS. For testing Debian boot up needs, Aranym is better than Hatari.
Although Aranym emulates 040 instead of 030, it's close enough
to Falcon for most thing, much faster as it doesn't try to do
cycle-accurate emulation, and it doesn't have problems with
Debian.

>> When Falcon is equipped with CT60e + 512MB is there use of that 14MB
>> additional RAM?
>
> Yes - if loading the kernel to that section of RAM. You probably don't
> want to do that.
>
> Some of the ST-RAM is still used when loading the kernel to the 512 MB
> FastRAM section (for drivers that require ST-RAM either as DMA buffer or
> video RAM). The rest is unused - recent patches to change the m68k
> memory model ought to make it easier to use the ST-RAM as system RAM,
> but there's still some bits missing.
>
> Cheers,
>
>      Michael Schmitz
>
>>
>> Dne út 5. 11. 2019 15:06 uživatel Stefan Niestegge <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> napsal:
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and EtherNat work
>>     for
>>     Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in
>>     TOS/MiNT.
>>
>>     kind regards,
>>     Stefan
>>
>>     Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:
>>     > Johny,
>>     >
>>     > both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver.
>>     EtherNAT
>>     > through the smc91x driver.
>>     >
>>     > Cheers,
>>     >
>>     >      Michael
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>>     >> Hi,
>>     >>
>>     >> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>>     >>
>>     >> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>>     >>
>>     >> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>>     >>
>>     >> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get
>> one.
>>     >>
>>     >> Thanks for info
>>     >
>>
>

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Re: Atari Falcon network

koxman
In general is 14MB Ram usefull for something when I have ct60e?

Am about to buy that Ram Expansion...

Dne st 13. 11. 2019 0:21 uživatel Eero Tamminen <[hidden email]> napsal:
Hi,

On 11/13/19 12:26 AM, Michael Schmitz wrote:
> On 13/11/19 9:24 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>> Is it possible to run linux on stock Falcon?
> No.

Linux v5.3 and minimal user-space (e.g. busybox shell as init)
can be run on Falcon with just 8MB of ST-RAM.  I've tested
that in Hatari emulator Falcon emulation mode:
https://git.tuxfamily.org/hatari/hatari.git/plain/doc/m68k-linux-for-hatari.txt


>> Does the 14MB RAM update help?
> Only for very old versions of Debian (pre-systemd).

I think that booting latest Debian to command line prompt, needs
nowadays something like 64MB of TT-RAM, mainly for initfs
(uncompressed it's quite large, and I think the compressed data
is also in RAM until uncompression finishes), but there are also
quite a few processes, tmpfs file systems, and full kernel takes
more memory too.


        - Eero

PS. For testing Debian boot up needs, Aranym is better than Hatari.
Although Aranym emulates 040 instead of 030, it's close enough
to Falcon for most thing, much faster as it doesn't try to do
cycle-accurate emulation, and it doesn't have problems with
Debian.

>> When Falcon is equipped with CT60e + 512MB is there use of that 14MB
>> additional RAM?
>
> Yes - if loading the kernel to that section of RAM. You probably don't
> want to do that.
>
> Some of the ST-RAM is still used when loading the kernel to the 512 MB
> FastRAM section (for drivers that require ST-RAM either as DMA buffer or
> video RAM). The rest is unused - recent patches to change the m68k
> memory model ought to make it easier to use the ST-RAM as system RAM,
> but there's still some bits missing.
>
> Cheers,
>
>      Michael Schmitz
>
>>
>> Dne út 5. 11. 2019 15:06 uživatel Stefan Niestegge <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> napsal:
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and EtherNat work
>>     for
>>     Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in
>>     TOS/MiNT.
>>
>>     kind regards,
>>     Stefan
>>
>>     Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:
>>     > Johny,
>>     >
>>     > both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver.
>>     EtherNAT
>>     > through the smc91x driver.
>>     >
>>     > Cheers,
>>     >
>>     >      Michael
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>>     >> Hi,
>>     >>
>>     >> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>>     >>
>>     >> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>>     >>
>>     >> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>>     >>
>>     >> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard to get
>> one.
>>     >>
>>     >> Thanks for info
>>     >
>>
>

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Re: Atari Falcon network

Stefan Niestegge-2
Since i doubt you upgrade your Falcon to ct60 just for running Debian,
hell yes, get the 14 MB if you can grab it...

Atari software can, and will, take use of it.

have fun,
Stefan


Am 13.11.19 um 01:15 schrieb Johny Five:

> In general is 14MB Ram usefull for something when I have ct60e?
>
> Am about to buy that Ram Expansion...
>
> Dne st 13. 11. 2019 0:21 uživatel Eero Tamminen <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> napsal:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     On 11/13/19 12:26 AM, Michael Schmitz wrote:
>      > On 13/11/19 9:24 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>      >> Is it possible to run linux on stock Falcon?
>      > No.
>
>     Linux v5.3 and minimal user-space (e.g. busybox shell as init)
>     can be run on Falcon with just 8MB of ST-RAM.  I've tested
>     that in Hatari emulator Falcon emulation mode:
>     https://git.tuxfamily.org/hatari/hatari.git/plain/doc/m68k-linux-for-hatari.txt
>
>
>      >> Does the 14MB RAM update help?
>      > Only for very old versions of Debian (pre-systemd).
>
>     I think that booting latest Debian to command line prompt, needs
>     nowadays something like 64MB of TT-RAM, mainly for initfs
>     (uncompressed it's quite large, and I think the compressed data
>     is also in RAM until uncompression finishes), but there are also
>     quite a few processes, tmpfs file systems, and full kernel takes
>     more memory too.
>
>
>              - Eero
>
>     PS. For testing Debian boot up needs, Aranym is better than Hatari.
>     Although Aranym emulates 040 instead of 030, it's close enough
>     to Falcon for most thing, much faster as it doesn't try to do
>     cycle-accurate emulation, and it doesn't have problems with
>     Debian.
>
>      >> When Falcon is equipped with CT60e + 512MB is there use of that
>     14MB
>      >> additional RAM?
>      >
>      > Yes - if loading the kernel to that section of RAM. You probably
>     don't
>      > want to do that.
>      >
>      > Some of the ST-RAM is still used when loading the kernel to the
>     512 MB
>      > FastRAM section (for drivers that require ST-RAM either as DMA
>     buffer or
>      > video RAM). The rest is unused - recent patches to change the m68k
>      > memory model ought to make it easier to use the ST-RAM as system
>     RAM,
>      > but there's still some bits missing.
>      >
>      > Cheers,
>      >
>      >      Michael Schmitz
>      >
>      >>
>      >> Dne út 5. 11. 2019 15:06 uživatel Stefan Niestegge
>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> napsal:
>      >>
>      >>     Hello,
>      >>
>      >>     i can confirm that both, EtherNec (aka NetUSBee) and
>     EtherNat work
>      >>     for
>      >>     Debian. NetBSD only supports EtherNec. SVEthLanA only works in
>      >>     TOS/MiNT.
>      >>
>      >>     kind regards,
>      >>     Stefan
>      >>
>      >>     Am 05.11.19 um 01:16 schrieb Michael Schmitz:
>      >>     > Johny,
>      >>     >
>      >>     > both should be supported. NetUSBee through the 'ne' driver.
>      >>     EtherNAT
>      >>     > through the smc91x driver.
>      >>     >
>      >>     > Cheers,
>      >>     >
>      >>     >      Michael
>      >>     >
>      >>     >
>      >>     > On 5/11/19 11:32 AM, Johny Five wrote:
>      >>     >> Hi,
>      >>     >>
>      >>     >> what is recommended solution for network on Falcon?
>      >>     >>
>      >>     >> I have Falcon + CT 63 in desktop.
>      >>     >>
>      >>     >> Is Netusbee by Lotharek supported?
>      >>     >>
>      >>     >> EtherNAT is better probably but am afraid its very hard
>     to get
>      >> one.
>      >>     >>
>      >>     >> Thanks for info
>      >>     >
>      >>
>      >
>