Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
14 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

Cesare Leonardi-4
Package: libgtk-3-0
Version: 3.20.9-1
Severity: normal

On three pc of mine i had to downgrade the following libraries to have a
functioning desktop:
libgail-3-0
libgtk-3-0
libgtk-3-bin

Up to version 3.20.9-1 all were fine but with 3.21.5-1 and 3.21.5-2 i
had so many issues that i had to find a way to come back to a previous
state.
These are the issue i can document, but certainly there are others:
- caja (file manager) doesn't start at all.
- desktop fonts look ugly, like there isn't any antialias.
- desktop doesn't repaint correctly: if you move an icon, the older is
  still there.
- mate terminal crash if you try to change color settings.

Journalctl reports tons of entries like those, indeed belonging to
applets that updates their visualization frequently:
------------------
ago 31 19:52:16 barone mate-cpufreq-ap[15177]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate CPUFreqApplet's child GtkAlignment 0x8049a148. Allocation is 55x24, but minimum required size is 83x24.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone mate-cpufreq-ap[15177]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate GtkAlignment's child GtkBox 0x80333fb8. Allocation is 55x24, but minimum required size is 83x24.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone mate-cpufreq-ap[15177]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate CPUFreqApplet's child GtkAlignment 0x8049a250. Allocation is 55x24, but minimum required size is 83x24.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone mate-cpufreq-ap[15177]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate GtkAlignment's child GtkBox 0x80333ce8. Allocation is 55x24, but minimum required size is 83x24.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate toplevel GtkPlug 0x80c171d0. Allocation is 178x24, but minimum required size is 178x26.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate GtkPlug's child MatePanelApplet 0x80adb138. Allocation is 178x24, but minimum required size is 178x26.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate MatePanelApplet's child GtkToggleButton 0x80ae9898. Allocation is 178x24, but minimum required size is 178x26.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate GtkToggleButton's child ClockBox 0x80ce14a8. Allocation is 168x14, but minimum required size is 168x16.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate ClockBox's child ClockBox 0x80ce1598. Allocation is 18x14, but minimum required size is 18x16.
ago 31 19:52:16 barone clock-applet[15178]: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate ClockBox's child GtkLabel 0x80cddc58. Allocation is 138x14, but minimum required size is 138x15.
------------------

The same issues happened on four different machine, with different
gtk theme, adwaita included: a 686, a 686-pae, two amd64.
On one of them i've installed a fresh Mate Desktop, so i think we could
say that the problem is always reproducible. You can try: i've just
installed task-mate-desktop, without any recommended or suggested packages.

I don't know what other infos i can provide.
I've kept a 686 PC with the broken libraries available in case you need
more infos or in case you want me to make some tests.

Cesare.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 4.7.0-1-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=it_IT.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=it_IT.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages libgtk-3-0 depends on:
ii  adwaita-icon-theme                      3.20-3
ii  hicolor-icon-theme                      0.15-1
ii  libatk-bridge2.0-0                      2.20.1-4
ii  libatk1.0-0                             2.20.0-1
ii  libc6                                   2.23-5
ii  libcairo-gobject2                       1.14.6-1+b1
ii  libcairo2                               1.14.6-1+b1
ii  libcolord2                              1.3.2-1
ii  libcups2                                2.1.4-4
ii  libepoxy0                               1.3.1-1
ii  libfontconfig1                          2.11.0-6.7
ii  libfreetype6                            2.6.3-3+b1
ii  libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0                      2.34.0-1
ii  libglib2.0-0                            2.48.1-3
ii  libgtk-3-common                         3.20.9-1
ii  libjson-glib-1.0-0                      1.2.2-1
ii  libpango-1.0-0                          1.40.1-1
ii  libpangocairo-1.0-0                     1.40.1-1
ii  libpangoft2-1.0-0                       1.40.1-1
ii  librest-0.7-0                           0.8.0-1
ii  libsoup2.4-1                            2.54.1-1
ii  libwayland-client0                      1.11.0-2
ii  libwayland-cursor0                      1.11.0-2
ii  libwayland-egl1-mesa [libwayland-egl1]  11.2.2-1
ii  libx11-6                                2:1.6.3-1
ii  libxcomposite1                          1:0.4.4-1
ii  libxcursor1                             1:1.1.14-1+b1
ii  libxdamage1                             1:1.1.4-2+b1
ii  libxext6                                2:1.3.3-1
ii  libxfixes3                              1:5.0.2-1
ii  libxi6                                  2:1.7.6-1
ii  libxinerama1                            2:1.1.3-1+b1
ii  libxkbcommon0                           0.6.1-1
ii  libxml2                                 2.9.4+dfsg1-1+b1
ii  libxrandr2                              2:1.5.0-1
ii  shared-mime-info                        1.6-1

Versions of packages libgtk-3-0 recommends:
ii  libgtk-3-bin  3.20.9-1

Versions of packages libgtk-3-0 suggests:
ii  gvfs             1.28.3-1
ii  librsvg2-common  2.40.16-1

-- no debconf information

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

D. B.
Why did you log this against 3.20.9 if that one is fine?

Anyway, this is precisely what happens when you run unstable, the key is in the name... It's not a problem; it's a logical consequence of using unstable. Maybe you should be using testing if you care about breakage, since unstable specifically advertises itself as being prone to breakage.

You just need to wait for MATE to update their stuff to match GTK+ and unstable to receive those updates.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

Cesare Leonardi-4
On 01/09/2016 09:01, D. B. wrote:
> Why did you log this against 3.20.9 if that one is fine?

I reply only to the constructive part of your message.
The machines with the problematic gtk are in places not reachable from
me at the moment so i used reportbug from a working machine, very
similar to the other and updated apart for few packages, like gtk, which
i've put on hold.
Since the gtk upgrade broke a large part of a desktop environment, i
believed to be useful to report that ASAP, with the workaround i had
found to return to a working state. I took me time to find that was gtk
the cause of all that.

Initially i was not sure to which package file this bug to: some Mate
component (which?) or libgtk? But since was libgtk to broke a broad
spectrum of packages, i had found it more appropriate.

I CC the Mate team to let them know about this problem.
Googling for "mate desktop gtk 3.21" report that upstream had various
problem and some of them, as far i understand, looks solved.
For example, the problem i had with desktop redrawing seems described here:
https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/issues/575

Cesare.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 09/01/2016 11:47 AM, Cesare Leonardi wrote:
> Initially i was not sure to which package file this bug to: some Mate component (which?) or libgtk? But since was libgtk to broke a broad spectrum of packages,
> i had found it more appropriate.

Or you just wait until things have sorted out and don't always write a bug report about everything that breaks in unstable.

If you think that's frustrating, then you really shouldn't be using unstable in the first place.

Thanks,
Adrian
(MATE packaging team)

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

D. B.
In reply to this post by Cesare Leonardi-4
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Cesare Leonardi <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 01/09/2016 09:01, D. B. wrote:
Why did you log this against 3.20.9 if that one is fine?

I reply only to the constructive part of your message.

No, you reply only to the part that doesn't reveal your entire report to be based on a flawed premise: that unstable isn't prone to breakage, and that the maintainers won't already be aware of such obvious issues and working on them. but OK.


 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

Michael Biebl-3
In reply to this post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Am 01.09.2016 um 11:53 schrieb John Paul Adrian Glaubitz:
> On 09/01/2016 11:47 AM, Cesare Leonardi wrote:
>> Initially i was not sure to which package file this bug to: some Mate component (which?) or libgtk? But since was libgtk to broke a broad spectrum of packages,
>> i had found it more appropriate.
>
> Or you just wait until things have sorted out and don't always write a bug report about everything that breaks in unstable.
>
> If you think that's frustrating, then you really shouldn't be using unstable in the first place.
>

Well, we obviously want unstable users to report bugs. That's one of the
purposes of unstable. I don't think we should slap users for that.

It's something different if users have a completely skewed view about
unstable (see #836207 for an example).

In this particular case, I assume there are changes in MATE which need
to be made, to accomodate change in libgtk-3-0.

I personally wasn't aware, that this gtk update affects MATE.
Adrian, do you know more about that?

Michael


--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?


signature.asc (817 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 09/01/2016 12:14 PM, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Well, we obviously want unstable users to report bugs. That's one of the
> purposes of unstable. I don't think we should slap users for that.

I'm not disagreeing with that in general. However, anyone using unstable should be
aware of the fact that they are using stuff that is currently being worked on. I
always compare that to trying to live in a house that is being under construction
and then complaining to the construction workers that they are producing dust
and noise. Like the construction workers, we usually know when stuff is broken,
so we don't need people pointing us at things all the time.

Bugs are acceptable during freeze and after they have been without attention
for a long time or when they are really critical, but not in these cases
where some transitioning work is going on.

> It's something different if users have a completely skewed view about
> unstable (see #836207 for an example).

Yeah, that one is out of the question invalid.

> In this particular case, I assume there are changes in MATE which need
> to be made, to accomodate change in libgtk-3-0.

I'm actually surprised to see these problems. It seems that GTK3 broke
theming support again (#836238). Wasn't that supposed to remained stable
for a while now?

> I personally wasn't aware, that this gtk update affects MATE.
> Adrian, do you know more about that?

No, not really. I'm running on MATE on unstable with always up-to-date
packages and besides the crashes with mate-terminal when switching profiles
or the theming issues in mate-terminal, I'm not seeing any of the problems
mentioned in the bug report.

In any case, I always recommend reporting these bugs upstream where the
actual MATE developers are sitting who will fix the issues.

Adrian

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

Cesare Leonardi-4
In reply to this post by Cesare Leonardi-4
I'd like to thank Michael Biebl, the only one who was friendly, who saw
the value in this BR and who understood the reason why i opened this
bug: to let Debian developer know about a problem after a recent upgrade.

I'm really bewildered with those people that looks pissed off by me
reporting about problems, blaming me to ignore how unstable works and
telling me that i don't have to complain.
I'm not complaining about the temporarly Mate breakage (i've found a
workaround), and i know that unstable can broke and so on. I only wanted
do inform Debian about that and being as detailed as possible to help
finding a solution! Including reporting the workaround, to help those
users googling around for the same problem. It's all i can do and i
assure you that it took time to do all that.
I don't understand: isn't it better one more bug report than a bug that
propagate to testing or stable unnoticed?

Adrian, you said that you cannot reproduce many problems i've reported.
Please, i repeat, start a VM, install task-mate-desktop, even without
any recommended or suggested packages, and login in lightdm. Now:
- You will see that fonts looks ugly and also icons looks strange, with
a sort of shadows under them.
- Double click on "Computer", or your folder's home or on the trash: you
will see that after a flash, nothing happens.
- Try to move one of the desktop's icons: you will see different
refreshing problems, and the icons in the initial position that doesn't
get erased. But it only a graphics artifact: the icons isn't still there
anymore, as you can see trying clicking on it or moving, for example, a
terminal windows on it, then moving away.

Have you tried that?

But looks like i've only lost time to investigate and report this bug.
Feel free to do what you want with it.

Cesare.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
I don't need to start debugging things when I already know the issue is resolved by a new upstream release of MATE.

Your bug report isn't telling us news, it's just annoying. And if you don't think my reaction is justified, just go to the MATE package bug tracker and check how many bug reports we already got which all can be traced down to this single upload of gtk+3.0.

Do you really not understand how annoying this is when people come and tell you over again "Your stuff is broken, did you know?"

These bug reports are USELESS and ANNOYING because they are redundant. I am all for locking up the Debian bug tracker with an account mechanism because users STILL think the Debian bug tracker is a FUCKING SUPPORT FORUM!

I know stuff is broken, FFS!

Adrian

On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Cesare Leonardi <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd like to thank Michael Biebl, the only one who was friendly, who saw the value in this BR and who understood the reason why i opened this bug: to let Debian developer know about a problem after a recent upgrade.

I'm really bewildered with those people that looks pissed off by me reporting about problems, blaming me to ignore how unstable works and telling me that i don't have to complain.
I'm not complaining about the temporarly Mate breakage (i've found a workaround), and i know that unstable can broke and so on. I only wanted do inform Debian about that and being as detailed as possible to help finding a solution! Including reporting the workaround, to help those users googling around for the same problem. It's all i can do and i assure you that it took time to do all that.
I don't understand: isn't it better one more bug report than a bug that propagate to testing or stable unnoticed?

Adrian, you said that you cannot reproduce many problems i've reported.
Please, i repeat, start a VM, install task-mate-desktop, even without any recommended or suggested packages, and login in lightdm. Now:
- You will see that fonts looks ugly and also icons looks strange, with a sort of shadows under them.
- Double click on "Computer", or your folder's home or on the trash: you will see that after a flash, nothing happens.
- Try to move one of the desktop's icons: you will see different refreshing problems, and the icons in the initial position that doesn't get erased. But it only a graphics artifact: the icons isn't still there anymore, as you can see trying clicking on it or moving, for example, a terminal windows on it, then moving away.

Have you tried that?

But looks like i've only lost time to investigate and report this bug. Feel free to do what you want with it.

Cesare.


_______________________________________________
pkg-mate-team mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-mate-team
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

Sam Hartman-5
Hi John,

I have read your message, and I can understand it can be difficult at
time to deal with recurrent bugreports. But, I do not feel comfortable
with the way you expressed your frustration. And it is not acceptable
to use those terms to communicate with our community (and users).

Users may have send those bugreports in good faith, not just to annoy
you. Having such bugreports is also a good way to evaluate the impact
of the bug (admittedly, it may be obvious in this specific case).

As a project, we have adopted a Code of Conduct [1] for participants
to our mailinglists, IRC channels and other communication means. We
expect our users to respect it. And, more importantly, I expect our
project members to defend it.

I would like to ask you to think about this and I'd like to count on
you to have more calm exchanges in the future. It is collectively
important, for both contributors and users, to be able to interact in
a safe and pleasant environment. We are all here to make fun! So
please, let's make it enjoyable the best we can.

[1] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

All best,

--
Mehdi Dogguy

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 10/06/2016 12:21 AM, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
> I have read your message, and I can understand it can be difficult at
> time to deal with recurrent bugreports. But, I do not feel comfortable
> with the way you expressed your frustration. And it is not acceptable
> to use those terms to communicate with our community (and users).

Was this now escalated to you after I did not agree with [hidden email]?

I'm a bit shocked to be honest how much I'm being prosecuted down for
this! We should really start wondering where the code of conduct
ends and the censorship and the paternalism starts.

Again, I did not attack anyone directly, I was swearing in public
and I think this is something which is covered by freedom of speech.

I'm not going to comment further on this. I'm also no longer subscribed
to the pkg-mate-team mailing list and I will most likely also leave
the team because I honestly didn't just feel annoyed but outright
harassed by those people you abuse the Debian bug tracker as their
personal support ticket system. Those aren't just lapses and oversights,
this is outright laziness and malicious entitlement by those people.

Thanks,
Adrian

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

Sam Hartman-5
On 06/10/2016 00:32, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 10/06/2016 12:21 AM, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
>> I have read your message, and I can understand it can be difficult at
>> time to deal with recurrent bugreports. But, I do not feel comfortable
>> with the way you expressed your frustration. And it is not acceptable
>> to use those terms to communicate with our community (and users).
>
> Was this now escalated to you after I did not agree with [hidden email]?
>

No. In fact, I was not in contact with larjona lately at all, tbh.

> I'm a bit shocked to be honest how much I'm being prosecuted down for
> this! We should really start wondering where the code of conduct
> ends and the censorship and the paternalism starts.
>

My intention was not to make you feel prosecuted. I am sorry if you
feel it that way.

> Again, I did not attack anyone directly, I was swearing in public
> and I think this is something which is covered by freedom of speech.
>

I believe that your original message did hurt some people, even if it
wasn't directed towards anybody specifically. So freedom of speech is
guaranteed as long as nobody feels attacked, hurt or shocked. And, CoC
is not meant to censor anyone. It is a tool to ensure that we interact
in a pleasant and welcoming environment, for the maximum of people.

> I'm not going to comment further on this. I'm also no longer subscribed
> to the pkg-mate-team mailing list and I will most likely also leave
> the team because I honestly didn't just feel annoyed but outright
> harassed by those people you abuse the Debian bug tracker as their
> personal support ticket system. Those aren't just lapses and oversights,
> this is outright laziness and malicious entitlement by those people.
>

We are not forced to reply to every bug. We have also ways to ensure that
specific people are banned from interacting with the BTS and mailing lists
if we show they have a malicious behavior, by contacting BTS admins and
listmasters. We all feel the same when some minority abuses some system.
Some maintainers know better how to deal with those. I believe it is better
to ignore those abusers instead of swearing.

All best,

--
Mehdi

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 10/06/2016 12:52 AM, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
>> I'm a bit shocked to be honest how much I'm being prosecuted down for
>> this! We should really start wondering where the code of conduct
>> ends and the censorship and the paternalism starts.
>>
>
> My intention was not to make you feel prosecuted. I am sorry if you
> feel it that way.

No worries. I was just surprised that this was picked up again after
Laura already spoke to me. She had sent me a mail and I had a discussion
with her and that's it. I didn't expect this to come up again.

>> Again, I did not attack anyone directly, I was swearing in public
>> and I think this is something which is covered by freedom of speech.
>>
>
> I believe that your original message did hurt some people, even if it
> wasn't directed towards anybody specifically. So freedom of speech is
> guaranteed as long as nobody feels attacked, hurt or shocked. And, CoC
> is not meant to censor anyone. It is a tool to ensure that we interact
> in a pleasant and welcoming environment, for the maximum of people.

Well, if someone wants to get hurt they will be hurt. You can't really
prevent that from happening. There have been some unfortunate developments
in society in this regards where people are over-sensitizing and reacting
offended to even the tiniest lack of courtesy and honestly, I find that
disturbing.

We are all humans and therefore we can be moody, annoyed and stressed
out. And swearing is just a means of venting and a very legitimate
one I find. I rather prefer people swearing than building up their
anger and then loosing their minds completely.

And I remember the discussions when the CoC was established and back
then some people where so overly sensitive that even the old figure
of speech about tarring and feathering someone offended them as they
interpreted that sentence as actual threat of violence against themselves
which is, of course, ridiculous.

So, while I agree we should keep things on a professional level, I would
also like to emphasize that Debian is a project run by humans and not
emotionless robots meaning that all the previous statements from above
regarding stress, emotions and moodiness apply.

>> I'm not going to comment further on this. I'm also no longer subscribed
>> to the pkg-mate-team mailing list and I will most likely also leave
>> the team because I honestly didn't just feel annoyed but outright
>> harassed by those people you abuse the Debian bug tracker as their
>> personal support ticket system. Those aren't just lapses and oversights,
>> this is outright laziness and malicious entitlement by those people.
>>
>
> We are not forced to reply to every bug. We have also ways to ensure that
> specific people are banned from interacting with the BTS and mailing lists
> if we show they have a malicious behavior, by contacting BTS admins and
> listmasters. We all feel the same when some minority abuses some system.
> Some maintainers know better how to deal with those. I believe it is better
> to ignore those abusers instead of swearing.

Well, the primary problem that we have - from my personal experience - is
the fact that the Debian BTS is just too freely accessible. It has become
so outright easy to report a bug that most users can't even be bothered
to go through support channels like IRC or mailing list first. They run into
a small problem, don't even bother to do some initial testing themselves
to be able to exclude common mistakes and the first thing they do is
go to the bug tracker and file a bug.

While you are right that we don't have to reply to every bug, you also
have to keep in mind that we are actually still interested in valid bug
reports because they are also a means for us maintainers to keep an
overview over existing issues. For example, for the sparc64 port, we're
reporting every architecture-related issue, tag it with the "sparc64"
and are therefore always able to see what the remaining, unresolved issues
are which is an important tool when working on a project over a long
time.

Now, when people like the initial reporter of this bug report start
flooding us with redundant or invalid bug reports, they add lots of
noise into the bug tracking and effectively hamper our work up to
a point where it gets outright annoying and almost harassing. Again,
I do not have a problem with valid bug reports. But I expect everyone
who files a bug to have at least the courtesy to do some research
first before filing a bug report, especially when using the development
versions of Debian where constant breakage is to be expected. Filing
a bug report should always be the last measure when dealing with a
problem, not the first one. It's a bug tracker after all, not a ticket
system from IT support.

I therefore really wished that we start locking down the bug tracker
like other projects do. It would be a big improvement if reporters
had to go through some sort of account system first. This will not
just reduce the number of bugs reports which were filed out of laziness
but also effectively solve the problem we have with SPAM mail closing
bug reports by sending mail to [hidden email].

Thanks,
Adrian

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Bug#836246: Acknowledgement (libgtk-3-0: Upgrade from 3.20.9 to 3.21.5 broke Mate desktop)

mike.gabriel
In reply to this post by Sam Hartman-5
Hi all,

On  Do 06 Okt 2016 00:52:39 CEST, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:

> On 06/10/2016 00:32, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> On 10/06/2016 12:21 AM, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:

>> Again, I did not attack anyone directly, I was swearing in public
>> and I think this is something which is covered by freedom of speech.
>>

> I believe that your original message did hurt some people, even if it
> wasn't directed towards anybody specifically. So freedom of speech is
> guaranteed as long as nobody feels attacked, hurt or shocked. And, CoC
> is not meant to censor anyone. It is a tool to ensure that we interact
> in a pleasant and welcoming environment, for the maximum of people.

Just for the record: I received a personal mail from one of the bug  
submitters who took Adrian's public swearing pretty personal.

>> I'm not going to comment further on this. I'm also no longer subscribed
>> to the pkg-mate-team mailing list and I will most likely also leave
>> the team because I honestly didn't just feel annoyed but outright
>> harassed by those people you abuse the Debian bug tracker as their
>> personal support ticket system. Those aren't just lapses and oversights,
>> this is outright laziness and malicious entitlement by those people.
>>
>
> We are not forced to reply to every bug. We have also ways to ensure that
> specific people are banned from interacting with the BTS and mailing lists
> if we show they have a malicious behavior, by contacting BTS admins and
> listmasters. We all feel the same when some minority abuses some system.
> Some maintainers know better how to deal with those. I believe it is better
> to ignore those abusers instead of swearing.
Adrian, unsubscribing from the ML is no real solution here IMHO. If  
you also leave the team, then Debian MATE will only have me as  
uploading DD left. Under the bottom line, we then have lost a main  
contributor _and_ one of the developers.

Please reconsider!
Mike

--

DAS-NETZWERKTEAM
mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby
mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
landline: +49 (4354) 8390 139

GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22  0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
mail: [hidden email], http://das-netzwerkteam.de


attachment0 (836 bytes) Download Attachment