Bug#837606: general: system freeze

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Rouven-Matthias Müller
Package: general
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,

the system freezes after a random amount of time. the mouse is still moving but
anything else is frozen. what i consider to be a very big bug is the fact, that
a program can cause this effect. it does not matter if that problem is related
to a other program. the problem is that programs can freeze the entire system!

thank you for your attention.
rouven



-- System Information:
Debian Release: 8.5
  APT prefers stable-updates
  APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Ben Caradoc-Davies-3
Rouven,

you have provided very little information so it will be hard for anyone
to reproduce this problem.

- What causes the problem? Are you running any program in particular?

- What is your hardware? Desktop, laptop? Models? Video cards and
drivers can cause of hangs.

- What do you mean by "freezes"? Can you ssh into the machine? Can you
suspend/resume? If you press the power button what happens?

- Does your keyboard work? Are you able to switch to a console with
Ctrl-Alt-F1? Back with Ctrl-F7?

- Any indication of hardware problems such as failing storage or memory
errors? Overheating?

- Wireless keyboard low battery or lost connection?

In any case, the Debian Bug Tracking System is not the most suitable
forum for general support unless you can determine specific steps to
reproduce this problem.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <[hidden email]>
Director
Transient Software Limited <http://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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Bug#837606: closed by Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> (Re: Bug#837606: additional infromation)

Rouven-Matthias Müller
In reply to this post by Rouven-Matthias Müller
thanks ben
this was the last time i tried to help debian
i think you have succeded


have a nice day


Am Montag, 12. September 2016, 21:27:04 schrieben Sie:

> This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report
> which was filed against the general package:
>
> #837606: general: system freeze
>
> It has been closed by Ben Hutchings <[hidden email]>.
>
> Their explanation is attached below along with your original report.
> If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a
> better one in a separate message then please contact Ben Hutchings
> <[hidden email]> by replying to this email.

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Abou Al Montacir
In reply to this post by Ben Caradoc-Davies-3
Control: reopen -1

Sorry, I don't think that the best way to solve this issue is to close the bug.

I personally encounter the very same issue when using epiphany browser with lindedIn. Imagine yourself sowing to your colleague something, you are enthusiast, and the unique  Linux user in the company, and proud to do it, but then it hangs. Awful, especially when they tackle you about all the says you did about an well known operating system whith blue screen!

Now back to your request:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:42:59 +1200 Ben Caradoc-Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Rouven,
> 
> you have provided very little information so it will be hard for anyone 
> to reproduce this problem.
Yes, this is true, but not a reason to trash the bug report.
> 
> - What causes the problem? Are you running any program in particular?
The cause is that the system starts swapping on a laptop with 16GiB RAM and 32GiB swap on a 5200R/mn
OK, my hard drive is slow but I don't see why it should hang the system.
> 
> - What is your hardware? Desktop, laptop? Models? Video cards and 
> drivers can cause of hangs.
A Dell pressario series 5500. Intel video card.
> 
> - What do you mean by "freezes"? Can you ssh into the machine? Can you 
> suspend/resume? If you press the power button what happens?
The only thing I can do is hit the power button for more than 4s. Otherwise, nothing works. I have a statical image, mouse can not move anymore, the clock stops updating on gnome panel and lid close dos not react any more. System does not enter sleep mode when I press power button, and even Verr/num led does not react anymore.
> 
> - Does your keyboard work? Are you able to switch to a console with 
> Ctrl-Alt-F1? Back with Ctrl-F7?
No, absolutely no.
> 
> - Any indication of hardware problems such as failing storage or memory 
> errors? Overheating?
No, it happens only when using the browser. It is clear that the browser have a bug but the system is not expected to freeze.
> 
> - Wireless keyboard low battery or lost connection?
No
> 
> In any case, the Debian Bug Tracking System is not the most suitable 
> forum for general support unless you can determine specific steps to 
> reproduce this problem.
However it is not a matter of discussion, it is a matter of tracking a real issue!
> 
> Kind regards,

Thanks for your effort

-- 
Abou Al Montacir


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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Joël Krähemann-2
Hi

I experienced the same as developing GSequencer probably a concurrency
issue. I had to fix it.
This can happen may be with unintialized mutices or conditional locks.

Bests,
Joël


On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Abou Al Montacir
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Control: reopen -1
>
>
> Sorry, I don't think that the best way to solve this issue is to close the
> bug.
>
> I personally encounter the very same issue when using epiphany browser with
> lindedIn. Imagine yourself sowing to your colleague something, you are
> enthusiast, and the unique  Linux user in the company, and proud to do it,
> but then it hangs. Awful, especially when they tackle you about all the says
> you did about an well known operating system whith blue screen!
>
> Now back to your request:
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 08:42:59 +1200 Ben Caradoc-Davies <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Rouven,
>>
>> you have provided very little information so it will be hard for anyone
>> to reproduce this problem.
>
> Yes, this is true, but not a reason to trash the bug report.
>
>>
>> - What causes the problem? Are you running any program in particular?
>
> The cause is that the system starts swapping on a laptop with 16GiB RAM and
> 32GiB swap on a 5200R/mn
> OK, my hard drive is slow but I don't see why it should hang the system.
>
>>
>> - What is your hardware? Desktop, laptop? Models? Video cards and
>> drivers can cause of hangs.
>
> A Dell pressario series 5500. Intel video card.
>
>>
>> - What do you mean by "freezes"? Can you ssh into the machine? Can you
>> suspend/resume? If you press the power button what happens?
>
> The only thing I can do is hit the power button for more than 4s. Otherwise,
> nothing works. I have a statical image, mouse can not move anymore, the
> clock stops updating on gnome panel and lid close dos not react any more.
> System does not enter sleep mode when I press power button, and even
> Verr/num led does not react anymore.
>
>>
>> - Does your keyboard work? Are you able to switch to a console with
>> Ctrl-Alt-F1? Back with Ctrl-F7?
>
> No, absolutely no.
>
>>
>> - Any indication of hardware problems such as failing storage or memory
>> errors? Overheating?
>
> No, it happens only when using the browser. It is clear that the browser
> have a bug but the system is not expected to freeze.
>
>>
>> - Wireless keyboard low battery or lost connection?
>
> No
>
>>
>> In any case, the Debian Bug Tracking System is not the most suitable
>> forum for general support unless you can determine specific steps to
>> reproduce this problem.
>
> Tried forums: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/10/msg01329.html
> However it is not a matter of discussion, it is a matter of tracking a real
> issue!
>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>
>
> Thanks for your effort
>
> --
> Abou Al Montacir
>

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Abou Al Montacir
Hi Joël,

On Tue, 2016-09-13 at 16:26 +0200, Joël Krähemann wrote:
Hi

I experienced the same as developing GSequencer probably a concurrency
issue. I had to fix it.
This can happen may be with unintialized mutices or conditional locks.
I fully agree there is a bug in epiphany browser, but still think that Linux shall be able to handle correctly such a use case.

In the very old days, the kernel would killed the process, today the swap daemon hangs du to a faulty program. This I can not call improvement over time.
-- 
Cheers, Abou Al Montacir

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Mathieu Malaterre-4
In reply to this post by Abou Al Montacir
> > - What is your hardware? Desktop, laptop? Models? Video cards and
> > drivers can cause of hangs.
>
> A Dell pressario series 5500. Intel video card.

Could you please check:

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Abou Al Montacir
Hi Mathieu

On Tue, 2016-09-13 at 16:36 +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> > - What is your hardware? Desktop, laptop? Models? Video cards and
> > drivers can cause of hangs.
>
> A Dell pressario series 5500. Intel video card.

Could you please check:

This seems another issue that I'm experiencing too, but not the same as here.

The current issue is a freeze caused by a buggy program that makes the system unable to recover.

The one you pointed to is a system crash, I do experience too from time to time when waking up my laptop.
However I feel some kernel versions are better than others. Some of them do not almost hang. The latest one hangs frequently.
But this is not related to this bug report.
-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Don Armstrong
In reply to this post by Abou Al Montacir
Package: bugs.debian.org
Severity: minor
Control: affects -1 general


On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Holger Levsen <[hidden email]> writes:
> > I'd close this bug again, but I gave up on caring about bugs in the
> > "general" pseudo package…
>
> Should we just disable the general pseudo-package? Is it serving a
> sufficient useful purpose to warrant the constant (if somewhat slow)
> stream of misdirected bug reports?

I personally don't have a problem with disabling it or turning it into
an auto responder which tells the submitter to communicate with
debian-user or another mailing list to figure out the appropriate
package and/or pseudopackage.

Does anyone have a strong objection to this?

--
Don Armstrong                      https://www.donarmstrong.com

"A one-question geek test. If you get the joke, you're a geek: Seen on
a California license plate on a VW Beetle: 'FEATURE'..."
 -- Joshua D. Wachs - Natural Intelligence, Inc.

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Holger Levsen-2
On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 03:24:49PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> Package: bugs.debian.org

I think this is the wrong package and should rather be handled by
reportbug…

> Does anyone have a strong objection to this?
 
I think I have a strong opinion on it, but not a strong objection ;p

also as said already: src:general has some useful bugs, which we cant really
sensibly reassign.


--
cheers,
        Holger

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Don Armstrong
Control: affects -1 reportbug

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 03:24:49PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > Package: bugs.debian.org
>
> I think this is the wrong package and should rather be handled by
> reportbug…

bugs.debian.org controls whether pseudopackage exist at all; reportbug
is responsible for what reportbug outputs as possible pseudopackages.

> > Does anyone have a strong objection to this?
>  
> I think I have a strong opinion on it, but not a strong objection ;p
>
> also as said already: src:general has some useful bugs, which we cant really
> sensibly reassign.

That's true. There are some bugs which affect lots of packages, but
don't really belong to a single one of them. general is as good a place
as any to coordinate those bugs.

Maybe just changing this text:

   Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a
   problem, or type 'other' to report a more general problem. If you
   don't know what package the bug is in, please contact
   [hidden email] for assistance.

To something like:

   Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a
   problem, If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact
   [hidden email] for assistance. Type 'other' to report a
   problem in a pseudopackage.

would help address this problem?

--
Don Armstrong                      https://www.donarmstrong.com

They say when you embark on a journey
of revenge
dig two graves.
They underestimate me.
 -- a softer world #560
    http://www.asofterworld.com/index.php?id=560

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Holger Levsen-2
On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:11:21PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> bugs.debian.org controls whether pseudopackage exist at all; reportbug
> is responsible for what reportbug outputs as possible pseudopackages.

I'm well aware of that…
 
> That's true. There are some bugs which affect lots of packages, but
> don't really belong to a single one of them. general is as good a place
> as any to coordinate those bugs.

agreed. we just need *a* place in the BTS for those…

> Maybe just changing this text:
>
>    Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a
>    problem, or type 'other' to report a more general problem. If you
>    don't know what package the bug is in, please contact
>    [hidden email] for assistance.
>
> To something like:
>
>    Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a
>    problem, If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact
>    [hidden email] for assistance. Type 'other' to report a
>    problem in a pseudopackage.
>
> would help address this problem?
sounds good/better to me!


--
cheers,
        Holger

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Abou Al Montacir
I'm quite disappointed that instead of trying to fix the bug you are just trying to discuss how to make user life more complicated.
What is the difference between Debian and any commercial SW? Just that it becomes less user friendly with less support despite it is cost free.
-- 
Cheers, Abou Al Montacir

On Wed, 2016-09-14 at 09:10 +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:11:21PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
bugs.debian.org controls whether pseudopackage exist at all; reportbug is responsible for what reportbug outputs as possible pseudopackages.
I'm well aware of that…
That's true. There are some bugs which affect lots of packages, but don't really belong to a single one of them. general is as good a place as any to coordinate those bugs.
agreed. we just need *a* place in the BTS for those…
Maybe just changing this text: Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a problem, or type 'other' to report a more general problem. If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact [hidden email] for assistance. To something like: Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a problem, If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact [hidden email] for assistance. Type 'other' to report a problem in a pseudopackage. would help address this problem?
sounds good/better to me!

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

gregor herrmann-3
In reply to this post by Don Armstrong
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 15:24:49 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Should we just disable the general pseudo-package? Is it serving a
> > sufficient useful purpose to warrant the constant (if somewhat slow)
> > stream of misdirected bug reports?
> I personally don't have a problem with disabling it or turning it into
> an auto responder which tells the submitter to communicate with
> debian-user or another mailing list to figure out the appropriate
> package and/or pseudopackage.

Sorry if this has been brought up already. Another option would be to
change the mapping of package:general from debian-devel@ldo to
debian-user@ldo. I guess this has a similar effect (getting help in
triaging the problem) without the unpleasant side effect of an
auto-responder or a message+exit in reportbug.

Anyway, I'd be very happy to see a change here; the "general" bugs on
-devel lead to nothing except frustration on all sides in my
experience.


Cheers,
gregor

--
 .''`.  Homepage https://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06
 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer -  https://www.debian.org/
 `. `'  Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe
   `-   NP: Little Walter: Blues With A Feeling

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Bug#837723: base is worse than general (Re: Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Holger Levsen-2
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 06:23:48PM +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> Sorry if this has been brought up already. Another option would be to
> change the mapping of package:general from debian-devel@ldo to
> debian-user@ldo. I guess this has a similar effect (getting help in
> triaging the problem) without the unpleasant side effect of an
> auto-responder or a message+exit in reportbug.
>
> Anyway, I'd be very happy to see a change here; the "general" bugs on
> -devel lead to nothing except frustration on all sides in my
> experience.

I'm not sure sending them to debian-user@ will be much better, as long
as no DDs are reading -user (not sure if that is the case.)

which reminds me:

have a look at https://bugs.debian.org/base and you will see 59 similar
bugs which noone is triaging anymore…

I though we once had consensus to remove the base pseudo-package
alltogether…


--
cheers,
        Holger

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Abou Al Montacir
In reply to this post by Abou Al Montacir
On Thu, 2016-09-15 at 11:30 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
On 2016-09-15 10:10:23 +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
That is very similar to the issue I'm experiencing. However I can reproduce this 100% when opening a page on linkedIn using epiphany browser.
Then I think that you should give strace information + system logs.
Thanks Vincent for the only valuable answer I've got on this.

I tried that but unfortunately could not reproduce it again due to probably my recent upgrade. I'll keep trying until I get it.
-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

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Bug#837606: general: system freeze

Vincent Lefevre-10
On 2016-09-19 09:50:19 +0200, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> On Thu, 2016-09-15 at 11:30 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Then I think that you should give strace information + system logs.
> Thanks Vincent for the only valuable answer I've got on this.
>
> I tried that but unfortunately could not reproduce it again due to probably my
> recent upgrade. I'll keep trying until I get it.

Note that since system logs don't always give enough information
and for problems that are not easily reproducible, you can't get
strace information, I suggest to install the atop package, which
monitors system resources and process activity. So, when a crash
occurs, in addition to system logs, you can see what atop has
recorded (for instance, in the past I could see that some freeze
or crash was due to that some process was taking more than the
amount of RAM, thanks to atop information).

The atop package from unstable unfortunately triggers some trap
divide errors, with the consequence that nothing is recorded for
some days (the daemon seems to be restarted everyday). This is
apprently fixed in experimental, but this new version yields a
timeout at shutdown with systemd (90 seconds by default).

--
Vincent Lefèvre <[hidden email]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to debian-user@lists.debian.org

Ian Jackson-2
In reply to this post by Holger Levsen-2
Holger Levsen writes ("Re: Bug#837723: Removing/Disabling the general psuedo package; refering to [hidden email]"):

> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:11:21PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > bugs.debian.org controls whether pseudopackage exist at all; reportbug
> > is responsible for what reportbug outputs as possible pseudopackages.
>
> I'm well aware of that…
>  
> > That's true. There are some bugs which affect lots of packages, but
> > don't really belong to a single one of them. general is as good a place
> > as any to coordinate those bugs.
>
> agreed. we just need *a* place in the BTS for those…
>
> > Maybe just changing this text:

This is probably a good approach.

If that doesn't work, might it be possible to make it impossible to
_report_ a bug against general, but still retain the ability to
_reassign_ a bug to general ?

OTOH we don't want to do anything which will simply shift the problem
onto the maintainers of specific packages which are commonly guessed
by the underinformed.

Ian.