Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

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Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Package: policykit-1
Version: 0.105-25
Severity: important

Hello,

consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: buster/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 'testing-debug'), (500, 'stable-debug'), (500, 'proposed-updates-debug'), (500, 'proposed-updates'), (500, 'oldoldstable'), (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental-debug'), (1, 'buildd-experimental'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 5.0.0 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Kernel taint flags: TAINT_OOT_MODULE
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages policykit-1 depends on:
ii  dbus                   1.12.12-1
ii  libc6                  2.28-8
ii  libglib2.0-0           2.58.3-1
ii  libpam-systemd         241-3
ii  libpam0g               1.3.1-5
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0    0.105-25
ii  libpolkit-backend-1-0  0.105-25
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0  0.105-25

policykit-1 recommends no packages.

policykit-1 suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information

--
Samuel
 Créer une hiérarchie supplementaire pour remedier à un problème (?) de
 dispersion est d'une logique digne des Shadocks.
 * BT in: Guide du Cabaliste Usenet - La Cabale vote oui (les Shadocks aussi) *

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Hi

Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> Package: policykit-1
> Version: 0.105-25
> Severity: important
>
> Hello,
>
> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.

I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
working backend on !linux.


--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?


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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> > consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
> > policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
>
> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
> working backend on !linux.

That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.

I'd be much less work for everybody to just have a policykit without a
backend than no policykit.

Samuel

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Am 24.04.19 um 21:58 schrieb Samuel Thibault:

> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
>>> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
>>
>> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
>> working backend on !linux.
>
> That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
> dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.
How so? It would just mean those packages become unbuildable on !linux



--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:21:03 +0200, a ecrit:

> Am 24.04.19 um 21:58 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> > Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
> >> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> >>> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
> >>> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
> >>
> >> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
> >> working backend on !linux.
> >
> > That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
> > dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.
>
> How so? It would just mean those packages become unbuildable on !linux

Yes, while a lot of them would just build and work fine on !linux
without any change anywhere but keep policykit-1 build find on
!linux.

For instance brltty's dependency on policykit is just a convenience, it
can fully work without it. That's probably the same for a lot of these
69 packages. I don't personally plan to take the time to have a look at
these 69 packages. I don't think anybody will happily plan to.

Samuel

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Am 24.04.19 um 22:31 schrieb Samuel Thibault:

> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:21:03 +0200, a ecrit:
>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:58 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
>>>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>>>> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
>>>>> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
>>>>
>>>> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
>>>> working backend on !linux.
>>>
>>> That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
>>> dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.
>>
>> How so? It would just mean those packages become unbuildable on !linux
>
> Yes, while a lot of them would just build and work fine on !linux
> without any change anywhere but keep policykit-1 build find on
> !linux.
>
> For instance brltty's dependency on policykit is just a convenience, it
> can fully work without it. That's probably the same for a lot of these
> 69 packages. I don't personally plan to take the time to have a look at
> these 69 packages. I don't think anybody will happily plan to.
>
Well, I don't think the alternative is better, i.e. pretend policykit-1
is workable on !linux, even if that means it is less convenient.


--
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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:56:11 +0200, a ecrit:

> Am 24.04.19 um 22:31 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> > Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:21:03 +0200, a ecrit:
> >> Am 24.04.19 um 21:58 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> >>> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
> >>>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> >>>>> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
> >>>>> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
> >>>> working backend on !linux.
> >>>
> >>> That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
> >>> dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.
> >>
> >> How so? It would just mean those packages become unbuildable on !linux
> >
> > Yes, while a lot of them would just build and work fine on !linux
> > without any change anywhere but keep policykit-1 build find on
> > !linux.
> >
> > For instance brltty's dependency on policykit is just a convenience, it
> > can fully work without it. That's probably the same for a lot of these
> > 69 packages. I don't personally plan to take the time to have a look at
> > these 69 packages. I don't think anybody will happily plan to.
>
> Well, I don't think the alternative is better, i.e. pretend policykit-1
> is workable on !linux, even if that means it is less convenient.

What do you mean by "better" exactly?

Providing a -dev package doesn't mean pretending that it'll work. A lot
of packages only have a Recommends: policykit-1, i.e. AIUI they don't
expect the library to be always working.

Really, is that really a lot of work to just drop that line and be done
with the discussion?

I'm not even asking to do it for Buster, since there won't be any !linux
released arch.

Samuel

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Am 24.04.19 um 23:37 schrieb Samuel Thibault:

> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:56:11 +0200, a ecrit:
>> Am 24.04.19 um 22:31 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 22:21:03 +0200, a ecrit:
>>>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:58 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>>>> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 21:40:04 +0200, a ecrit:
>>>>>> Am 24.04.19 um 21:24 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
>>>>>>> consolekit has been removed, please drop the dependency from the
>>>>>>> policykit-1 package, as the attached patch does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess we should make policykit-1 linux-any, given that we don't have a
>>>>>> working backend on !linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> That'd notably mean having to make the libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
>>>>> dependency [linux-any] on apparently 69 packages.
>>>>
>>>> How so? It would just mean those packages become unbuildable on !linux
>>>
>>> Yes, while a lot of them would just build and work fine on !linux
>>> without any change anywhere but keep policykit-1 build find on
>>> !linux.
>>>
>>> For instance brltty's dependency on policykit is just a convenience, it
>>> can fully work without it. That's probably the same for a lot of these
>>> 69 packages. I don't personally plan to take the time to have a look at
>>> these 69 packages. I don't think anybody will happily plan to.
>>
>> Well, I don't think the alternative is better, i.e. pretend policykit-1
>> is workable on !linux, even if that means it is less convenient.
>
> What do you mean by "better" exactly?
>
> Providing a -dev package doesn't mean pretending that it'll work. A lot
> of packages only have a Recommends: policykit-1, i.e. AIUI they don't
> expect the library to be always working.
>
> Really, is that really a lot of work to just drop that line and be done
> with the discussion?
>
> I'm not even asking to do it for Buster, since there won't be any !linux
> released arch.
It's quite simple really: If policykit-1 is not functional on !linux,
there should be no policykit-1 package on !linux.


--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?


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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 23:44:57 +0200, a ecrit:
> It's quite simple really: If policykit-1 is not functional on !linux,
> there should be no policykit-1 package on !linux.

That's a principle I can understand, yes.  But then the principle meets
the rest of what Debian is: a clench of dependencies, policykit-1 being
relatively central in it. Having to spend time to disable almost a
hundred of dependencies is really not a good use of volunteer time.

Really, this has been discussed several times in the past for various
packages: for all people's use of time, it's really better to just leave
an implementation that just returns errors, than having to bug each
and every of a hundred of maintainers just to disable the dependency
because the non-functional implementation was removed. Only to bug them
_*again*_ once the implementation has been made to work, to re-enable
the features that would probably just have been disabled automatically
on getting the error from the non-functional implementation! This is
really exactly the case for the package I know about, brltty.

Samuel

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Am 25.04.19 um 00:06 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 23:44:57 +0200, a ecrit:
>> It's quite simple really: If policykit-1 is not functional on !linux,
>> there should be no policykit-1 package on !linux.
>
> That's a principle I can understand, yes.  But then the principle meets
> the rest of what Debian is: a clench of dependencies, policykit-1 being
> relatively central in it. Having to spend time to disable almost a
> hundred of dependencies is really not a good use of volunteer time.

You don't have to disable almost a hundred of dependencies, you just
need to acknowledge that some packages are not fully functional on !linux.

Keep in mind that I only proposed to change policykit-1 to linux-any.
The libpolkit-*-dev packages would still be any.
The effect would be, that packages which declare a hard Depends on
policykit-1 would be not installable on !linux. And I think that's a
good thing. If they really need policykit-1, we should not pretend that
a functional policykit-1 exists when it doesn't.

Regards,
Michael



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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le jeu. 25 avril 2019 00:27:58 +0200, a ecrit:

> Am 25.04.19 um 00:06 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> > Michael Biebl, le mer. 24 avril 2019 23:44:57 +0200, a ecrit:
> >> It's quite simple really: If policykit-1 is not functional on !linux,
> >> there should be no policykit-1 package on !linux.
> >
> > That's a principle I can understand, yes.  But then the principle meets
> > the rest of what Debian is: a clench of dependencies, policykit-1 being
> > relatively central in it. Having to spend time to disable almost a
> > hundred of dependencies is really not a good use of volunteer time.
>
> You don't have to disable almost a hundred of dependencies, you just
> need to acknowledge that some packages are not fully functional on !linux.

Sure, I completely agree with that, cf the rest of my previous mail.

> Keep in mind that I only proposed to change policykit-1 to linux-any.
> The libpolkit-*-dev packages would still be any.

Ah!  I thought you meant the whole source package...

> The effect would be, that packages which declare a hard Depends on
> policykit-1 would be not installable on !linux. And I think that's a
> good thing. If they really need policykit-1, we should not pretend
> that a functional policykit-1 exists when it doesn't.

That part looks good enough to me indeed.

Samuel

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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Michael Biebl-3
Am 25.04.19 um 00:54 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> Michael Biebl, le jeu. 25 avril 2019 00:27:58 +0200, a ecrit:

>> Keep in mind that I only proposed to change policykit-1 to linux-any.
>> The libpolkit-*-dev packages would still be any.
>
> Ah!  I thought you meant the whole source package...

source packages can't be linux-any, only binary packages (but I guess
you know that).



--
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universe are pointed away from Earth?


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Bug#927896: [Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#927896: Bug#927896: Bug#927896: policykit-1: Please drop consolekit dependency on !linux

Samuel Thibault-8
Michael Biebl, le jeu. 25 avril 2019 01:02:44 +0200, a ecrit:

> Am 25.04.19 um 00:54 schrieb Samuel Thibault:
> > Michael Biebl, le jeu. 25 avril 2019 00:27:58 +0200, a ecrit:
>
> >> Keep in mind that I only proposed to change policykit-1 to linux-any.
> >> The libpolkit-*-dev packages would still be any.
> >
> > Ah!  I thought you meant the whole source package...
>
> source packages can't be linux-any, only binary packages (but I guess
> you know that).

Yes, but people very often just mark all binary packages of a source
package as linux-any, to just avoid having to care about !linux.

Samuel