Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Evgen
Package: debian-installer
Version: 20190410
Severity: important

Dear Maintainer,

I tried to install system with firmware-testing-amd64-n
etinst.iso
from unofficial "non-free" weekly cd (2019-06-10 07:12)
I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install

On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
2. on the "...MATE"

Old/light Graphical Installer still has checkbox
only on the "Debian desktop environment"



-- System Information:
Debian Release: 10.0
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 4.19.0-5-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Kernel taint flags: TAINT_OOT_MODULE, TAINT_UNSIGNED_MODULE
Locale: LANG=uk_UA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=uk_UA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=uk_UA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)
LSM: AppArmor: enabled

-- no debconf information

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Steve McIntyre
On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 08:12:18PM +0300, Evgen wrote:

>Package: debian-installer
>Version: 20190410
>Severity: important
>
>Dear Maintainer,
>
>I tried to install system with firmware-testing-amd64-n
>etinst.iso
>from unofficial "non-free" weekly cd (2019-06-10 07:12)
>I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install
>
>On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
>1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
>2. on the "...MATE"
>
>Old/light Graphical Installer still has checkbox
>only on the "Debian desktop environment"

Odd... There's literally nothing I can see in the config for the dark
theme menu that would change the default desktop selection. For
today's build of that image, the isolinux menu is:

label installdarkgui
default installdarkgui
        menu label ^Graphical install
        menu default
        kernel /install.amd/vmlinuz
        append vga=788 initrd=/install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz theme=dark --- quiet

and the Grub menu entry (used for EFI boot) says:

    menuentry --hotkey=g '... Graphical install' {
        set background_color=black
        linux    /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 theme=dark --- quiet
        initrd   /install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz
    }

Can you reliably reproduce what you've seen?

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                [hidden email]
"Managing a volunteer open source project is a lot like herding
 kittens, except the kittens randomly appear and disappear because they
 have day jobs." -- Matt Mackall

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Evgen
Yes, I tried it few times (with the same iso) on VirtualBox 6.06.
I can try it again but please tell me which ISO should I use.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 9:31 PM Steve McIntyre <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 08:12:18PM +0300, Evgen wrote:
>Package: debian-installer
>Version: 20190410
>Severity: important
>
>Dear Maintainer,
>
>I tried to install system with firmware-testing-amd64-n
>etinst.iso
>from unofficial "non-free" weekly cd (2019-06-10 07:12)
>I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install
>
>On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
>1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
>2. on the "...MATE"
>
>Old/light Graphical Installer still has checkbox
>only on the "Debian desktop environment"

Odd... There's literally nothing I can see in the config for the dark
theme menu that would change the default desktop selection. For
today's build of that image, the isolinux menu is:

label installdarkgui
default installdarkgui
        menu label ^Graphical install
        menu default
        kernel /install.amd/vmlinuz
        append vga=788 initrd=/install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz theme=dark --- quiet

and the Grub menu entry (used for EFI boot) says:

    menuentry --hotkey=g '... Graphical install' {
        set background_color=black
        linux    /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 theme=dark --- quiet
        initrd   /install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz
    }

Can you reliably reproduce what you've seen?

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                [hidden email]
"Managing a volunteer open source project is a lot like herding
 kittens, except the kittens randomly appear and disappear because they
 have day jobs." -- Matt Mackall

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Yevgen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, I tried it few times (with the same iso) on VirtualBox 6.06.
> I can try it again but please tell me which ISO should I use.
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 9:31 PM Steve McIntyre <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 08:12:18PM +0300, Evgen wrote:
> > >Package: debian-installer
> > >Version: 20190410
> > >Severity: important
> > >
> > >Dear Maintainer,
> > >
> > >I tried to install system with firmware-testing-amd64-n
> > >etinst.iso
> > >from unofficial "non-free" weekly cd (2019-06-10 07:12)
> > >I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install
> > >
> > >On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
> > >1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
> > >2. on the "...MATE"
> > >
> > >Old/light Graphical Installer still has checkbox
> > >only on the "Debian desktop environment"
> >
> > Odd... There's literally nothing I can see in the config for the dark
> > theme menu that would change the default desktop selection. For
> > today's build of that image, the isolinux menu is:
> >
> > label installdarkgui
> > default installdarkgui
> >         menu label ^Graphical install
> >         menu default
> >         kernel /install.amd/vmlinuz
> >         append vga=788 initrd=/install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz theme=dark ---
> > quiet
> >
> > and the Grub menu entry (used for EFI boot) says:
> >
> >     menuentry --hotkey=g '... Graphical install' {
> >         set background_color=black
> >         linux    /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 theme=dark --- quiet
> >         initrd   /install.amd/gtk/initrd.gz
> >     }
> >
> > Can you reliably reproduce what you've seen?

I did a test installation yesterday (my main goal was a different one,
but I watched the tasksel screen too).
I installed with the buster-rc1 netinst CD image, and had the dark theme
enabled.
And default selection was:

On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
2. on the "...MATE"

So everything fine.


Holger

--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Samuel Thibault-8
In reply to this post by Steve McIntyre
Control: reassign -1 rootskel

Steve McIntyre, le sam. 15 juin 2019 19:30:30 +0100, a ecrit:
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 08:12:18PM +0300, Evgen wrote:
> >I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install
> >
> >On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
> >1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
> >2. on the "...MATE"
>
> Odd... There's literally nothing I can see in the config for the dark
> theme menu that would change the default desktop selection.

This is done in rootskel, see version 1.127.

It was done on purpose, to automatically install compiz support. The
idea is that we here assume that choosing the dark theme means low
vision, and thus the desire to have good zooming support.

Samuel

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Evgen
I understand that you're trying to care about users.
But there's at least 2 arguments againts this decision:
1) Assumption that dark themes were meant mostly for low vision is realy subjective.
Some people use them at night, some just prefer them...
2) It makes Debian installer inconsistent

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 10:28 AM Samuel Thibault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Control: reassign -1 rootskel

Steve McIntyre, le sam. 15 juin 2019 19:30:30 +0100, a ecrit:
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 08:12:18PM +0300, Evgen wrote:
> >I chosed Dark theme installer menu > Graphical Install
> >
> >On "Software selection" there were 2 check-boxes:
> >1. on the "Debian desktop environment"
> >2. on the "...MATE"
>
> Odd... There's literally nothing I can see in the config for the dark
> theme menu that would change the default desktop selection.

This is done in rootskel, see version 1.127.

It was done on purpose, to automatically install compiz support. The
idea is that we here assume that choosing the dark theme means low
vision, and thus the desire to have good zooming support.

Samuel
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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Samuel Thibault-8
Yevgen, le lun. 17 juin 2019 12:05:36 +0300, a ecrit:
> 1) Assumption that dark themes were meant mostly for low vision is realy
> subjective.
> Some people use them at night, some just prefer them...

This "dark theme" choice has never been meant for general user theme
preferences support, but really for accessibility.

> 2) It makes Debian installer inconsistent

We can't really be consistent, unless we happen to have one choice of
desktop which provides good support for all Debian goals. Gnome does not
currently provide as seamless accessibility support as MATE does.

Samuel

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Steve McIntyre
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:11:28AM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

>Yevgen, le lun. 17 juin 2019 12:05:36 +0300, a ecrit:
>> 1) Assumption that dark themes were meant mostly for low vision is realy
>> subjective.
>> Some people use them at night, some just prefer them...
>
>This "dark theme" choice has never been meant for general user theme
>preferences support, but really for accessibility.
>
>> 2) It makes Debian installer inconsistent
>
>We can't really be consistent, unless we happen to have one choice of
>desktop which provides good support for all Debian goals. Gnome does not
>currently provide as seamless accessibility support as MATE does.

That's all OK, but it would be lovely to have some warning that "dark
theme" is *meant* for the visually-impaired. I'd just seen this as an
apparently arbitrary choice of different colours without that
information...

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                [hidden email]
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have
 nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free
 speech because you have nothing to say."
   -- Edward Snowden

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Samuel Thibault-8
Steve McIntyre, le lun. 17 juin 2019 12:41:40 +0100, a ecrit:
> That's all OK, but it would be lovely to have some warning that "dark
> theme" is *meant* for the visually-impaired. I'd just seen this as an
> apparently arbitrary choice of different colours without that
> information...

Ok, I have relabelled the choice.

Samuel

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Bug#930569: debian-installer: Dark theme installer selects MATE by default

Steve McIntyre
On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 02:49:10PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>Steve McIntyre, le lun. 17 juin 2019 12:41:40 +0100, a ecrit:
>> That's all OK, but it would be lovely to have some warning that "dark
>> theme" is *meant* for the visually-impaired. I'd just seen this as an
>> apparently arbitrary choice of different colours without that
>> information...
>
>Ok, I have relabelled the choice.

Cool, thanks. :-)

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                [hidden email]
"I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code
 is in use on a military site..." -- Simon Booth