Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

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Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Charles Plessy-12
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Hash: SHA1

Dear all,

Joerg Jaspert answered to my questions and some others on his blog, but the
informations that I think we need are still not provided.

 - It is not known whether the Secretary, the Project leader and his delegates
   for the system administration, the FTP archive, the maintainance of the
   keyring and the front desk endorse his proposal or not.

 - He wrote that things are not implemented and wont'be for "a bit more", but
   we still do not know if they are decided or not (this is not the same as
   implemented or not), nor how long is "a bit more".

I regret this precipitation and confusion, and therefore propose the following
general resolution and call for seconders.

- ---------------------------------------------------

 - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
   Status";

 - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
 
 - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
   decide the announced changes, and without judging on their validity;

The Debian Project, by the way of a general resolution of its developpers, decides:

 - The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are suspended.

 - Evolution of the membership procedures of the Project will be prepared in a
   discussion that will be finished by consensus or a general resolution.

- ---------------------------------------------------

Actually, if the GR road is eventually taken, it can be done through amending
this proposal. This will save time and energy.

Have a nice day,

- --
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Bastian Blank
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 09:15:43PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> The Debian Project, by the way of a general resolution of its developpers, decides:
>
>  - The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are suspended.

It needs to say that the decision is put on hold according to §4.2.2 of
the constition. Also the outcome needs to be finite, you want to drop
this decision.

>  - Evolution of the membership procedures of the Project will be prepared in a
>    discussion that will be finished by consensus or a general resolution.

You don't want to force a specific behavior for the future, this may be
a amendment to the constitution.

Well, maybe you want. This would make it impossible to change the
membership procedures without an GR.

Bastian

--
The face of war has never changed.  Surely it is more logical to heal
than to kill.
                -- Surak of Vulcan, "The Savage Curtain", stardate 5906.5


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Kalle Kivimaa
Bastian Blank <[hidden email]> writes:
> Well, maybe you want. This would make it impossible to change the
> membership procedures without an GR.

I don't think so. I think that would require (temporarily) amending
the constitution, as it would (temporarily) remove the authority
defined there.

--
* Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology (T.P)  *
*           PGP public key available @ http://www.iki.fi/killer           *


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Charles Plessy-12
In reply to this post by Bastian Blank
Le Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 02:36:22PM +0200, Bastian Blank a écrit :
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 09:15:43PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > The Debian Project, by the way of a general resolution of its developpers, decides:
> >
> >  - The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
> >    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are suspended.
>
> It needs to say that the decision is put on hold according to §4.2.2 of
> the constition. Also the outcome needs to be finite, you want to drop
> this decision.

Thanks for the feedback, I have updated the proposal accordingly.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

 - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
   Status";

 - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;

 - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
   decide the announced changes, and without judging on their validity;

The Debian Project, by the way of a general resolution of its developpers, decides:

  The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
  mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are suspended.
  In accordance to the paragraph 4.2.2 of the constition, this suspension
  takes immediately effect until a procedural vote decides if the supsension
  is lifted until the vote of this general resolution.

In addition, the developpers make the following statememt:

  The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
  not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
  these procedures change by the way of a general resolution if no consensus
  can be reached.
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I have turned the second resolution into a statement that is not binding
for the delegates, which solves the constitutional issues.

Have a nice week-end,

--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Robert Millan
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 11:49:31PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
>   takes immediately effect until a procedural vote decides if the supsension

Typo ^

--
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Lucas Nussbaum
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
On 24/10/08 at 23:49 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging on their validity;
>
> The Debian Project, by the way of a general resolution of its developpers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are suspended.
>   In accordance to the paragraph 4.2.2 of the constition, this suspension
>   takes immediately effect until a procedural vote decides if the supsension
>   is lifted until the vote of this general resolution.
>
> In addition, the developpers make the following statememt:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by the way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkkB30QACgkQdYl1krr+x/LxZACdHidbXtPS91rrvoxBHz34reDq
> dlIAn2yYZ3VjC4Jmqw3NNEMOP7+Qovqc
> =eyP2
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Seconded.

I'd like to add that I'm not opposed to changes in our membership
policy. But those changes could fundamentally change our project, and I
believe that it's important that there's a lot of discussion about it,
so we make sure that we take the right decision. We probably need
change, but we don't need any change. We shouldn't accept the first
proposal just because it changes things.

I'm also not confortable at all with a process where a single individual
posts his decision, we are allowed to suggest changes to amend it, and
then the same individual implements his decision. And this is not about
being personal. I deeply respect Joerg, usually support his choices, and
acknowledge that he did more grunt work for Debian than most of us.

I also hope that we will never vote on this GR, because Joerg will
publicly acknowledge that he probably was a bit too fast and he will
stop all work on this topic until either:
(A) consensus is reached ;
(B) or a vote decides how we want to change our procedures.
But until Joerg does, we need this GR, unfortunately.

Thank you,
--
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [hidden email]   http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [hidden email]             GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Frans Pop-3
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
I would second this proposal for basically the same reasons as Lucas, but
there is one sentence I think needs to be improved.

Charles Plessy wrote:
>   In accordance to the paragraph 4.2.2 of the constition, this
>   suspension takes immediately effect until a procedural vote decides if
>   the supsension is lifted until the vote of this general resolution.

Besides a few grammatical errors and typos, the main problem with this is
that the second half of the sentence is very unclear. It is also IMO
unnecessary as what will happen if this GR is supported by enough
developers to activate the suspension is already described in the
constitution. Duplicating that here in different words can only result in
problems.

I would therefore suggest to change this sentence to simply:
This suspension is effective immediately (in accordance with paragraph
4.2(2.2) of the Debian Constitution).


Also:
s/without judging on their validity/without judging their validity/
s/by the way of a general resolution/by way of a general resolution/

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Jeff Carr-3
In reply to this post by Lucas Nussbaum
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 08:43, Lucas Nussbaum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to add that I'm not opposed to changes in our membership
> policy. But those changes could fundamentally change our project, and I
> believe that it's important that there's a lot of discussion about it,

There have been a zillion conversations, ideas and suggestions over
this decade on these subjects.

> I'm also not comfortable at all with a process where a single individual
> posts his decision, we are allowed to suggest changes to amend it, and
> then the same individual implements his decision. And this is not about

That's almost exactly how the best software we have was created. :)

> being personal. I deeply respect Joerg, usually support his choices, and
> acknowledge that he did more grunt work for Debian than most of us.
>
> I also hope that we will never vote on this GR, because Joerg will
> publicly acknowledge that he probably was a bit too fast and he will
> stop all work on this topic until either:

I hope he does exactly what he laid out. If you have better ideas now
is your chance to come up with them. He's in a position to do
something and has the respect of the community; that's why he has the
authority to make the changes he suggests. Hopefully he will.


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Charles Plessy-12
In reply to this post by Frans Pop-3
Le Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 08:27:40PM +0200, Frans Pop a écrit :

> Charles Plessy wrote:
> >   In accordance to the paragraph 4.2.2 of the constition, this
> >   suspension takes immediately effect until a procedural vote decides if
> >   the supsension is lifted until the vote of this general resolution.
>
> Besides a few grammatical errors and typos, the main problem with this is
> that the second half of the sentence is very unclear. It is also IMO
> unnecessary as what will happen if this GR is supported by enough
> developers to activate the suspension is already described in the
> constitution. Duplicating that here in different words can only result in
> problems.
Hi all,

I have integrated the changes suggested by Frans, Robert, and aspell
(wdiff attached).

Here is the amended proposal:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

 - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
   Status";

 - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;

 - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
   decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;

 - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;

The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:

  The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
  mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
  suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].

In addition, the developers make the following statement:

  The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
  not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
  these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
  can be reached.
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=+pJ/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Have a nice day,

--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

MJ Ray-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Charles Plessy <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.

Seconded.
- --
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Robert Millan
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:10:55AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
Seconded.

--
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Bas Zoetekouw
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
Hi Charles!

You wrote:

>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
Seconded.

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bas Zoetekouw      | Sweet day, so cool, so calm, so bright, |
|--------------------| The bridall of the earth and skie:      |
| [hidden email]  | The dew shall weep thy fall tonight;    |
+--------------------|                    For thou must die.   |
                     +-----------------------------------------+

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Frans Pop-3
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
<snip>

>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers,
> decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
</snip>

Seconded.

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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Amaya Rodrigo Sastre
Sorry, I can't reply to the original mail itself, I hope this suffices.


Frans Pop wrote:

> <snip>
> >  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
> >    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
> >    Status";
> >
> >  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
> >
> >  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
> >    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
> >
> >  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
> >
> > The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers,
> > decides:
> >
> >   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
> >   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
> >   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
> >
> > In addition, the developers make the following statement:
> >
> >   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
> >   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
> >   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
> >   can be reached.
> </snip>
>
> Seconded.
I hereby second all text quoted by Frans.

--
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 : :' :
 `. `'
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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Lucas Nussbaum
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
On 25/10/08 at 10:10 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have integrated the changes suggested by Frans, Robert, and aspell
> (wdiff attached).
>
> Here is the amended proposal:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.

I've thought about this a bit more.

I fear that this GR will look like "vote yes if you don't want change."
I'm personally fine with changes to the membership process. But I want
them to be decided after an healthy, public, discussion, and probably
also a vote (because we are not going to agree on which proposal is the
best one).

Should we add something to the GR to address this problem? Or simply
explain the reasoning behind the GR by different means, during the vote?
--
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [hidden email]   http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [hidden email]             GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |


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Re: Call for seconds: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Charles Plessy-12
Le Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:42:08AM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit :
>
> I fear that this GR will look like "vote yes if you don't want change."
> I'm personally fine with changes to the membership process. But I want
> them to be decided after an healthy, public, discussion, and probably
> also a vote (because we are not going to agree on which proposal is the
> best one).
>
> Should we add something to the GR to address this problem? Or simply
> explain the reasoning behind the GR by different means, during the vote?

Hi Lucas,

There are definitely much more constructive things happening on the
debian-project list. Since they are completely ignored, I think that this GR is
still useful to prevent escalation in the "fait accompli". For instance email
address "@contributor.debian.net" could be attributed, increasing confusion
about wether the different subclasses of members of the Project have been
created or not. In that case, a couple of more seconds would suspend the
decision.

I would be more than happy if a discussion between the different poles of
opinions would start, with focus on convergence. For the moment, there has
always been this or that person to write things close enough to what I think
that I did not feel like adding to the noise by sending "me too" messages.
Also, it is very important for the conflict to cool down that we do not start
to simply count who is behind each of the two main propositions.

So to cut a long story short, I hope that this GR proposal will be a Rubicon
that nobody is willing to cross, so I do not feel like tweaking it. I am fine
with a status quo while progress is done on the debian-project list.

Have a nice day,

--
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Discussion period: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Neil McGovern via nm
In reply to this post by Charles Plessy-12
Hi,

The message in [hidden email] has received
enough seconds to start the discussion period. The text of the
resolution is:
------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
   Status";

 - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;

 - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
   decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;

 - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;

The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:

  The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
  mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
  suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].

In addition, the developers make the following statement:

  The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
  not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
  these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
  can be reached.
------------------------------------------------------------------

It has been proposed by Charles Plessy, and seconds have been received
for this version by MJ Ray, Robert Millan, Baz Zoetekouw, Frans Pop and
Amaya Rodrigo Sastre.

Further details will appear at http://www.debian.org/vote/2008/vote_002
shortly.

Thanks,
Neil
--
* stockholm bangs head against budget
<h01ger> outsch
<stockholm> h01ger: it is still very soft, i did not hurt myself
<gwolf> stockholm: But you bled on the budget, and now it's red again!

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Re: Discussion period: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Lucas Nussbaum
On 27/10/08 at 10:35 +0000, Neil McGovern wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded, as I also seconded the previous version[1].
[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2008/10/msg00110.html

That makes 1 proposer + 6 seconders = 7 sponsors for that GR. We would
need 3 more for the decisions to be put on hold immediately.
--
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [hidden email]   http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [hidden email]             GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |

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Re: Discussion period: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Bastian Blank
In reply to this post by Neil McGovern via nm
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:35:23AM +0000, Neil McGovern wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.

Bastian

--
Dismissed.  That's a Star Fleet expression for, "Get out."
                -- Capt. Kathryn Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager, "The Cloud"

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Re: Discussion period: Suspension of the changes of the Project's membership procedures.

Rémi Vanicat
In reply to this post by Neil McGovern via nm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Neil McGovern <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> The message in [hidden email] has received
> enough seconds to start the discussion period. The text of the
> resolution is:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Following the announcement of the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>    mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) about "Developer
>    Status";
>
>  - Given the importance of defining how the Project accepts new members;
>
>  - Because of the strong opposition to the method used to prepare, discuss and
>    decide the announced changes, and without judging their validity;
>
>  - In accordance with the paragraphs 4.1(3) and 4.2(2.2) of the Constitution;
>
> The Debian Project, by way of a general resolution of its developers, decides:
>
>   The changes announced the 22nd of October on the debian-devel-announce
>   mailing list (Message-id: <[hidden email]>) are
>   suspended [§4.1(3)].  This suspension is effective immediately [§4.2(2.2)].
>
> In addition, the developers make the following statement:
>
>   The delegates of the Project leader are asked to not take decisions that are
>   not consensual about the membership procedures of the Project, and to let
>   these procedures change by way of a general resolution if no consensus
>   can be reached.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------

seconded
- --

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