Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

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Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
Hello,

I'm trying to install "http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-05-24/debian-10.0-m68k-NETINST-1.iso" on a Centris 650 (136 MB, 4 GB root partition, 2 GB swap partition).?? My plan was to install and configure everything on the 650 (including replacing systemd with SysV init since systemd doesn't do well on slow, low-memory systems) and then create a filesystem image for my other, even slower, mac68k systems.

After copying the kernel and initrd from CD to disk and booting with Penguin, the installation proceeded, though very slowly; at every re-draw of the screen, I could see each line being re-drawn.?? I tried twice using the stock CD-ROM drive and once using a more modern CD-ROM drive.?? In all three cases, installation of the basic system succeeded after about four hours, then stopped at the "Configure the package manager" menu -- "Your installation CD or DVD has been scanned ... Scan another CD or DVD?".?? I selected "No" and hit return:?? no response, even after several hours.?? Hitting return repeatedly or trying to select "Yes" or "Go Back" also doesn't work, and eventually the arrow keys stop responding (though F1 and F2 still work to move the selection left or right).?? Switching to an alternate console didn't seem to work (or I was doing it wrong; I tried several combinations of ctrl-alt-f1, ctrl-alt-right_arrow, etc.).

After one of the failures, I tried booting into the new system.?? Booting using the kernel from the CD didn't work -- there was a two-minute pause, which ended in a kernel panic after not finding a root filesystem (or any SCSI devices).?? Maybe that kernel only works for installation using the accompanying initrd??? I next booted into the new system using a 5.x kernel, thinking that I could use apt-get to install everything else, but the keyboard map appeared to be wrong, so I couldn't log in at the VGA console.

I next tried booting using a serial console (console=ttyS0,9600n8).?? After the expected slowness of systemd bringing everything up (about eight minutes), I see a login prompt on the VGA screen and on the serial console.?? The keymap on the VGA screen is wrong, but appears to be ok on the serial console; however, attempting to login using root or the regular user account set up during installation fails ("Login incorrect").?? Apparently users and passwords had not been configured yet when the installation hung.

Next I booted back into Debian 3.1 (using the same 5.x kernel) to see whether I could chroot to the new installation, add a new user and reset root's password.?? That worked.

Booting back into the new installation, I'm able to log in as root at the serial console.?? I don't see an installer log (I can send that if someone knows where it is or how to access it from inside the installer that hung).?? The network is up, and apt-get works, but it doesn't find anything, even after adding these two lines to /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
deb-src http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main

Looking in a normal web browser, packages appear to be available in "http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-m68k/main/", but apt-get doesn't appear to see anything.?? Maybe there's a simple error in my sources.list?

-Stan

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
The mailing list seems to have munged my message, adding extra question
marks.  I'm not sure why, maybe because my mail client formatted the
message in HTML instead of plain text (sorry about that).

Anyway, here it is again, hopefully this will be more readable.

And BTW, I'm not complaining about anything or suggesting that anyone
isn't working very hard to provide a working GNU/Linux system forancient
hardware.  I'm just trying to figure out why it's not working and
whether I'm doing something wrong.  Thanks to all for your efforts.

-----

Hello,

I'm trying to install
"http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-05-24/debian-10.0-m68k-NETINST-1.iso"

on a Centris 650 (136 MB, 4 GB root partition, 2 GB swap partition).  My
plan was to install and configure
everything on the 650 (including replacing systemd with SysV init since
systemd doesn't do well on slow,
low-memory systems) and then create a filesystem image for my other,
even slower, mac68k systems.

After copying the kernel and initrd from CD to disk and booting with
Penguin, the installation proceeded,
though very slowly; at every re-draw of the screen, I could see each
line being re-drawn. I tried twice
using the stock CD-ROM drive and once using a more modern CD-ROM drive.
In all three cases, installation
of the basic system succeeded after about four hours, then stopped at
the "Configure the package manager"
menu -- "Your installation CD or DVD has been scanned ... Scan another
CD or DVD?".  I selected "No" and
hit return:  no response, even after several hours.  Hitting return
repeatedly or trying to select "Yes"
or "Go Back" also doesn't work, and eventually the arrow keys stop
responding (though F1 and F2 still
work to move the selection left or right).  Switching to an alternate
console didn't seem to work (or I
was doing it wrong; I tried several combinations of ctrl-alt-f1,
ctrl-alt-right_arrow, etc.).

After one of the failures, I tried booting into the new system.  Booting
using the kernel from the CD
didn't work -- there was a two-minute pause, which ended in a kernel
panic after not finding a root
filesystem (or any SCSI devices).  Maybe that kernel only works for
installation using the accompanying
initrd? I next booted into the new system using a 5.x kernel, thinking
that I could use apt-get to
install everything else, but the keyboard map appeared to be wrong, so I
couldn't log in at the VGA console.

I next tried booting using a serial console (console=ttyS0,9600n8).
After the expected slowness of
systemd bringing everything up (about eight minutes), I see a login
prompt on the VGA screen and on
the serial console.  The keymap on the VGA screen is wrong, but appears
to be ok on the serial console;
however, attempting to login using root or the regular user account set
up during installation fails
("Login incorrect").  Apparently users and passwords had not been
configured yet when the installation
hung.

 Next I booted back into Debian 3.1 (using the same 5.x kernel) to see
whether I could chroot to the
new installation, add a new user and reset root's password.  That worked.

Booting back into the new installation, I'm able to log in as root at
the serial console.  I don't see
an installer log (I can send that if someone knows where it is or how to
access it from inside the
installer that hung).  The network is up, and apt-get works, but it
doesn't find anything, even after
adding these two lines to /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
deb-src http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main

Looking in a normal web browser, packages appear to be available in
"http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-m68k/main/", but apt-get
doesn't appear to see
anything.  Maybe there's a simple error in my sources.list?

-Stan

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Christian T. Steigies
Hi,
On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 02:16:19PM -0600, [hidden email] wrote:
> The mailing list seems to have munged my message, adding extra question
> marks.  I'm not sure why, maybe because my mail client formatted the
> message in HTML instead of plain text (sorry about that).
>
> Anyway, here it is again, hopefully this will be more readable.

Much better :-)

> And BTW, I'm not complaining about anything or suggesting that anyone
> isn't working very hard to provide a working GNU/Linux system forancient
> hardware.  I'm just trying to figure out why it's not working and
> whether I'm doing something wrong.  Thanks to all for your efforts.

I haven't booted an m68k machine in a while, so I am not too qualified to
comment on the current setup. I am impressed by the effort you put in, it
seems you are very close to a working system.
 

> installer that hung).  The network is up, and apt-get works, but it
> doesn't find anything, even after
> adding these two lines to /etc/apt/sources.list:
>
> deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
> deb-src http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
>
> Looking in a normal web browser, packages appear to be available in
> "http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-m68k/main/", but apt-get
> doesn't appear to see
> anything.  Maybe there's a simple error in my sources.list?

Quite possible, the format is quite picky. Did you try to leave out the
slash after debian-ports? See:

https://wiki.debian.org/M68k/Installing

The page may be outdated, but it does not show a slash after debian-ports
and before unstable/unreleased:

  pick your favourite Debian unofficial ports mirror (we’ll be using 「<a href="http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports」">http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports」)

  deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports unstable main

  deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports unreleased main


Christian

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
Hi Christian,

On 6/9/19 3:09 PM, Christian T. Steigies wrote:
> ...
>
> I haven't booted an m68k machine in a while, so I am not too qualified to
> comment on the current setup. I am impressed by the effort you put in, it
> seems you are very close to a working system.

Yes, thanks.  I believe I could get it working by manually downloading
the packages that I need, move them over to the new installation using
Debian 3.1 and then installing them in Debian 10/sid.


> ...
> Quite possible, the format is quite picky. Did you try to leave out the
> slash after debian-ports? See:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/M68k/Installing
>
> The page may be outdated, but it does not show a slash after debian-ports
> and before unstable/unreleased:
>
>   pick your favourite Debian unofficial ports mirror (we’ll be using 「http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports」)
>
>   deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports unstable main
>
>   deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-ports unreleased main
>
>
> Christian
>

I tried leaving out the slash after debian-ports; apt-get still fails to
find anything.  Perhaps something failed to get installed or configured
after the installation hung.

Alternately, if there is a way to restart the installation, skipping the
step where it asks whether any additional CDs or DVDs should be read,
that might also work.  Otherwise, I can probably get it working well
enough by manually installing what I need, though I'm not sure yet how
to fix the keymap issue on the VGA console.

Thanks for your suggestions!

-Stan

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Christian T. Steigies
On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 03:25:41PM -0600, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Christian,
>
> On 6/9/19 3:09 PM, Christian T. Steigies wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > I haven't booted an m68k machine in a while, so I am not too qualified to
> > comment on the current setup. I am impressed by the effort you put in, it
> > seems you are very close to a working system.
>
> Yes, thanks.  I believe I could get it working by manually downloading
> the packages that I need, move them over to the new installation using
> Debian 3.1 and then installing them in Debian 10/sid.

Yes. Or by using debootstrap, maybe even from another architecture.
 
> I tried leaving out the slash after debian-ports; apt-get still fails to
> find anything.  Perhaps something failed to get installed or configured
> after the installation hung.

I doubt that.
 
> Alternately, if there is a way to restart the installation, skipping the
> step where it asks whether any additional CDs or DVDs should be read,
> that might also work.  Otherwise, I can probably get it working well
> enough by manually installing what I need, though I'm not sure yet how
> to fix the keymap issue on the VGA console.

I don't think you can continue an installation, but maybe thats a new
feature. There are always news things to learn.

I am a bit confused by the layout of the ports mirror.
It seems the m68k debs are in this directory:

http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-m68k/main/

But there is also this directory, that I thought that would be used for
finding debs (this contains only all.debs?):

http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool/main/

On the official mirrors, I do not see the arch in the name of the pool
directory, ie this has debs for different arches:

http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/bash/

Maybe that is a new feature (that your apt does not support) or something is
broken with the ports server, which I doubt. Adrian will tell us?

Maybe you can try to add this to your sources.list:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main

(yes, with a trailing slash is what I use, works on my notebook).

You will not find m68k.debs there, but it should give you access to
all.debs, so you could try to apt install a doc package (bash-doc) or
debhelper (which will fail because it depends on more packages), but maybe
it can give you a clue where the problem lies.

In /var/lib/dpkg and /var/cache/apt you might find some info which packages
are available for installation.

Good luck!
Christian

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
In reply to this post by userm57
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

> The mailing list seems to have munged my message, adding extra question
> marks.  I'm not sure why, maybe because my mail client formatted the
> message in HTML instead of plain text (sorry about that).
>

Probably something to do with Thunderbird on Mac OS X. I've seen this
before in Alpine.

> Anyway, here it is again, hopefully this will be more readable.
>
> And BTW, I'm not complaining about anything or suggesting that anyone
> isn't working very hard to provide a working GNU/Linux system forancient
> hardware.  I'm just trying to figure out why it's not working and
> whether I'm doing something wrong.  Thanks to all for your efforts.
>

No problem.

> -----
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to install
> "http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-05-24/debian-10.0-m68k-NETINST-1.iso"
>

I'll try it in QEMU.

> on a Centris 650 (136 MB, 4 GB root partition, 2 GB swap partition).  
> My plan was to install and configure everything on the 650 (including
> replacing systemd with SysV init since systemd doesn't do well on slow,
> low-memory systems) and then create a filesystem image for my other,
> even slower, mac68k systems.
>

I agree.

Note that 2 GB of swap is excessive. If the system needs that much swap
then it will have effectively locked up anyway because writing and reading
that much storage at 0.5 MBps takes hours (not including CPU time).

I suggest approx. 2 times physical RAM. This also avoids wasting physical
RAM on large page tables required for all the unused virtual memory.

> After copying the kernel and initrd from CD to disk and booting with
> Penguin, the installation proceeded, though very slowly; at every
> re-draw of the screen, I could see each line being re-drawn.

The macfb frame buffer console is always slow to scroll and refresh, maybe
this is normal? You can ameliorate this by reducing the framebuffer color
depth.

> I tried twice using the stock CD-ROM drive and once using a more modern
> CD-ROM drive. In all three cases, installation of the basic system
> succeeded after about four hours, then stopped at the "Configure the
> package manager" menu -- "Your installation CD or DVD has been scanned
> ... Scan another CD or DVD?".

Maybe you need to use a different initrd? There are several on the ISO.

I'm no expert with the debian installer, but I suspect you should be using
the initrd for the netinst method (?)

> I selected "No" and hit return:  no response, even after several hours.  
> Hitting return repeatedly or trying to select "Yes" or "Go Back" also
> doesn't work, and eventually the arrow keys stop responding (though F1
> and F2 still work to move the selection left or right).

Weird.

> Switching to an alternate console didn't seem to work (or I was doing it
> wrong; I tried several combinations of ctrl-alt-f1,
> ctrl-alt-right_arrow, etc.).
>

That key combination is for xorg (X11). If you are using the framebuffer
console, you should use alt-f1, alt-f2 etc. or alt-arrow-key to switch
between virtual consoles.

> After one of the failures, I tried booting into the new system.  
> Booting using the kernel from the CD didn't work -- there was a
> two-minute pause, which ended in a kernel panic after not finding a root
> filesystem (or any SCSI devices).

Can you capture this sequence using the serial console and post it here?

> Maybe that kernel only works for installation using the accompanying
> initrd?

No, the debian kernel works for other purposes too, but you would need to
generate a suitable initrd if you want to use it for other purposes.

I always build kernel binaries for Macs with all the Mac drivers built-in.
That way, no initrd should be needed.

> I next booted into the new system using a 5.x kernel, thinking that I
> could use apt-get to install everything else, but the keyboard map
> appeared to be wrong, so I couldn't log in at the VGA console.
>

Sounds like the installation didn't complete properly but it's hard to
say. A screen shot might be helpful here.

> I next tried booting using a serial console (console=ttyS0,9600n8).
> After the expected slowness of systemd bringing everything up (about
> eight minutes),

Right, systemd is hopeless on these machines. Not just because the CPU is
slow, but because systemd sets short timeouts on it's own units which
those units can't live up to. That means that systemd enforces policy that
excludes slow hardware.

> I see a login prompt on the VGA screen and on the serial console.  The
> keymap on the VGA screen is wrong,

On the framebuffer console, what characters do you see when you type
"root"?

> but appears to be ok on the serial console; however, attempting to login
> using root or the regular user account set up during installation fails
> ("Login incorrect").  Apparently users and passwords had not been
> configured yet when the installation hung.
>
>  Next I booted back into Debian 3.1 (using the same 5.x kernel) to see
> whether I could chroot to the new installation, add a new user and reset
> root's password.  That worked.
>

Great!

> Booting back into the new installation, I'm able to log in as root at
> the serial console.  I don't see an installer log (I can send that if
> someone knows where it is or how to access it from inside the installer
> that hung).

If the installation completed normally, the log would be found in the
target filesystem... please see
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s01.html.en

> The network is up, and apt-get works, but it doesn't find anything, even
> after adding these two lines to /etc/apt/sources.list:
>
> deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
> deb-src http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ sid main
>

Looks ok to me...

Here's /etc/apt/sources.list from my debian/m68k system. Note that this is
'unstable' not 'sid'. I don't know whether 'sid' will work here or not; if
so that may be preferable.

# binary default
deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ unstable main
deb http://incoming.ports.debian.org/buildd/ unstable main
deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ unreleased main

# source
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable main
deb-src http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/ buildd-unstable main

> Looking in a normal web browser, packages appear to be available in
> "http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-m68k/main/", but apt-get
> doesn't appear to see anything.  Maybe there's a simple error in my
> sources.list?
>

Did you run "apt-get update" after editting sources.list?

--

> -Stan
>
>

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
On 6/9/19 6:11 PM, Finn Thain wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
> ...
>
> Note that 2 GB of swap is excessive. If the system needs that much swap
> then it will have effectively locked up anyway because writing and reading
> that much storage at 0.5 MBps takes hours (not including CPU time).
>
> I suggest approx. 2 times physical RAM. This also avoids wasting physical
> RAM on large page tables required for all the unused virtual memory.

ok, thanks.  I had it set that large previously so that programs such as
gcc would compile (as I recall, some versions of gcc required at least
500 MB to compile).  I'll change it to 512 MB.

> ...
>> I tried twice using the stock CD-ROM drive and once using a more modern
>> CD-ROM drive. In all three cases, installation of the basic system
>> succeeded after about four hours, then stopped at the "Configure the
>> package manager" menu -- "Your installation CD or DVD has been scanned
>> ... Scan another CD or DVD?".
>
> Maybe you need to use a different initrd? There are several on the ISO.

I see these:
./cdrom/initrd.gz
./hd-media/initrd.gz
./nativehd/initrd.gz

I used ./cdrom/initrd.gz.

>> After one of the failures, I tried booting into the new system.
>> Booting using the kernel from the CD didn't work -- there was a
>> two-minute pause, which ended in a kernel panic after not finding
>> a root filesystem (or any SCSI devices).
>
> Can you capture this sequence using the serial console and post it here?

Please see Centris-650.txt, attached. I suspect SCSI requires an initrd
with this kernel.  It would probably work with a non-installation initrd.

> ...
>
>> I see a login prompt on the VGA screen and on the serial console.  The
>> keymap on the VGA screen is wrong,
>
> On the framebuffer console, what characters do you see when you type
> "root"?

I see "2==3" when I type "root".

> ...
> If the installation completed normally, the log would be found in the
> target filesystem... please see
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s01.html.en

ok, thanks.  I don't see "/var/log/installer", so apparently it wasn't
written.

> ...
> Did you run "apt-get update" after editting sources.list?

No, I hadn't done that, thanks.  Unfortunately, it starts updating but
then appears to hang while running; I'll have to try it again later.

Centris-650.txt (8K) Download Attachment
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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> >> After one of the failures, I tried booting into the new system.
> >> Booting using the kernel from the CD didn't work -- there was a
> >> two-minute pause, which ended in a kernel panic after not finding a
> >> root filesystem (or any SCSI devices).
> >
> > Can you capture this sequence using the serial console and post it
> > here?
>
> Please see Centris-650.txt, attached. I suspect SCSI requires an initrd
> with this kernel.  It would probably work with a non-installation
> initrd.
>
Right. You'd need a post-installation initrd. The installer will install
the kernel package into the target filesystem and this produces a suitable
initrd in /boot. (But note that this is inaccessible from the MacOS
bootloader unless your /boot partition is formatted with HFS).

The real mystery here is the two minute pause:

[    2.560000] random: fast init done
[  133.760000] random: crng init done
[  146.040000] Block layer SCSI generic (bsg) driver version 0.4 loaded (major 252)

My first thought was that there isn't enough entropy before device drivers
load. But I no longer think that this issue is related to the RNG at all,
because when I boot that kernel in QEMU, I get a completely different
result. (See attached log.) Weird.

> > ...
> >
> >> I see a login prompt on the VGA screen and on the serial console.  The
> >> keymap on the VGA screen is wrong,
> >
> > On the framebuffer console, what characters do you see when you type
> > "root"?
>
> I see "2==3" when I type "root".
>
It seems that the old ADB keymap got enabled ("2==3" maps to "root"). This
page has some explanation.
https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes

I guess a systemd unit loaded a bogus keymap with ADB keycodes. We need to
"get rid of the ADB keymap" like that document says. I'll have to perform
a full installation to figure out how to do that.

> > ...
> > If the installation completed normally, the log would be found in the
> > target filesystem... please see
> > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s01.html.en
>
> ok, thanks.  I don't see "/var/log/installer", so apparently it wasn't
> written.
>
> > ...
> > Did you run "apt-get update" after editting sources.list?
>
> No, I hadn't done that, thanks.  Unfortunately, it starts updating but
> then appears to hang while running; I'll have to try it again later.
Yes, it takes forever.

--

qemu-installer-kernel.log (8K) Download Attachment
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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
On 6/9/19 8:07 PM, Finn Thain wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
> ...
>>
>> Please see Centris-650.txt, attached. I suspect SCSI requires an initrd
>> with this kernel.  It would probably work with a non-installation
>> initrd.
>>
>
> Right. You'd need a post-installation initrd. The installer will install
> the kernel package into the target filesystem and this produces a suitable
> initrd in /boot. (But note that this is inaccessible from the MacOS
> bootloader unless your /boot partition is formatted with HFS).

The post-installation initrd could be copied to MacOS and then specified
in Penguin, same as the installation initrd.  If this were a user's only
GNU/Linux installation, they would need to know to copy the initrd at
the end of the installation or their new system might not be bootable.
It might make sense for the developers to include a post-installation
initrd on the CD.

> ...
>>
>> I see "2==3" when I type "root".
>>
>
> It seems that the old ADB keymap got enabled ("2==3" maps to "root"). This
> page has some explanation.
> https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes
>
> I guess a systemd unit loaded a bogus keymap with ADB keycodes. We need to
> "get rid of the ADB keymap" like that document says. I'll have to perform
> a full installation to figure out how to do that.

A full installation that completes may fix the problem.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 6/9/19 8:07 PM, Finn Thain wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
> > ...
> >>
> >> Please see Centris-650.txt, attached. I suspect SCSI requires an
> >> initrd with this kernel.  It would probably work with a
> >> non-installation initrd.
> >>
> >
> > Right. You'd need a post-installation initrd. The installer will
> > install the kernel package into the target filesystem and this
> > produces a suitable initrd in /boot. (But note that this is
> > inaccessible from the MacOS bootloader unless your /boot partition is
> > formatted with HFS).
>
> The post-installation initrd could be copied to MacOS and then specified
> in Penguin, same as the installation initrd.  If this were a user's only
> GNU/Linux installation, they would need to know to copy the initrd at
> the end of the installation or their new system might not be bootable.
> It might make sense for the developers to include a post-installation
> initrd on the CD.
>

I don't think that's possible. AIUI, the post-installation initrd varies
according to the kind of hardware you're installing onto and the selection
of packages that you install. And probably configuration choices made
during installation such as localization also.

> > ...
> >>
> >> I see "2==3" when I type "root".
> >>
> >
> > It seems that the old ADB keymap got enabled ("2==3" maps to "root").
> > This page has some explanation.
> > https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes
> >
> > I guess a systemd unit loaded a bogus keymap with ADB keycodes. We
> > need to "get rid of the ADB keymap" like that document says. I'll have
> > to perform a full installation to figure out how to do that.
>
> A full installation that completes may fix the problem.
>

Seems unlikely. The switch from ADB keycode to Linux keycodes took place
over 15 years ago (before I started running Debian on Macs). I don't
understand how an ADB keymap got installed in the first place. I'll run
through an installation and see what gives.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
In reply to this post by userm57
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

> installation of the basic system succeeded after about four hours, then
> stopped at the "Configure the package manager" menu -- "Your
> installation CD or DVD has been scanned ... Scan another CD or DVD?".  
> I selected "No" and hit return:  no response, even after several hours.  

Same here (QEMU). I was able to get past this by using j instead of
enter/return.

> Hitting return repeatedly or trying to select "Yes" or "Go Back" also
> doesn't work,

Yes. It appears that ADB keycodes have come into effect during
installation (root gives 2==3, f4 gives up-arrow).

The window borders went cyrillic, possibly at the same time that the
keymap got messed up. (See attached screenshot.)

Looking through the installer log, I found this:

Jun 10 06:41:17 in-target: Setting up console-setup-linux (1.191) ...
Jun 10 06:41:21 in-target: Created symlink
/etc/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/keyboard-setup.service ->
/lib/systemd/system/keyboard-setup.service.
Jun 10 06:41:25 in-target: Created symlink
/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/console-setup.service ->
/lib/systemd/system/console-setup.service.
Jun 10 06:41:30 in-target: Setting up console-setup (1.191) ...
Jun 10 06:41:47 in-target: Processing triggers for systemd (241-4) ...


That service file claims to set the keymap and console font:

/target # cat usr/lib/systemd/system/console-setup.service
[Unit]
Description=Set console font and keymap
DefaultDependencies=no
After=console-screen.service kbd.service local-fs.target
RequiresMountsFor=/usr
ConditionPathExists=/bin/setupcon

[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStart=/lib/console-setup/console-setup.sh
RemainAfterExit=yes

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target


Digging a bit deeper, we find this:

/target # cat /etc/default/keyboard
# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

# Consult the keyboard(5) manual page.

XKBMODEL="macintosh_old"
XKBLAYOUT="us"
XKBVARIANT=""
XKBOPTIONS=""

BACKSPACE="guess"


I found the man page here:
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/keyboard-configuration/keyboard.5.en.html

It turned out that changing $XKBMODEL to "pc105" didn't actually help when
I booted into /target. So I've no idea how to fix this.

I'll try again in Aranym.

--

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
In reply to this post by Finn Thain
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, Finn Thain wrote:

>
> The real mystery here is the two minute pause:
>
> [    2.560000] random: fast init done
> [  133.760000] random: crng init done
> [  146.040000] Block layer SCSI generic (bsg) driver version 0.4 loaded (major 252)
>
> My first thought was that there isn't enough entropy before device drivers
> load. But I no longer think that this issue is related to the RNG at all,
> because when I boot that kernel in QEMU, I get a completely different
> result. (See attached log.) Weird.
>

Aranym also stalls here (for about 20 seconds). Adding initcall_debug to
the kernel parameters reveals this:

[    0.620000] calling  dh_init+0x0/0x10 @ 1
[    2.560000] random: fast init done
[   24.030000] initcall dh_init+0x0/0x10 returned 0 after 22861089 usecs

The reason why my kernel builds don't pause here is because they don't
call dh_init, because I have disabled CONFIG_CRYPTO_DH.

I don't know why dh_init() is slow. Maybe it has to compute a public key.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, Finn Thain wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, Finn Thain wrote:
>
> >
> > The real mystery here is the two minute pause:
> >
> > [    2.560000] random: fast init done
> > [  133.760000] random: crng init done
> > [  146.040000] Block layer SCSI generic (bsg) driver version 0.4 loaded (major 252)
> >
> > My first thought was that there isn't enough entropy before device drivers
> > load. But I no longer think that this issue is related to the RNG at all,
> > because when I boot that kernel in QEMU, I get a completely different
> > result. (See attached log.) Weird.
> >
>
> Aranym also stalls here (for about 20 seconds). Adding initcall_debug to
> the kernel parameters reveals this:
>
> [    0.620000] calling  dh_init+0x0/0x10 @ 1
> [    2.560000] random: fast init done
> [   24.030000] initcall dh_init+0x0/0x10 returned 0 after 22861089 usecs
>
> The reason why my kernel builds don't pause here is because they don't
> call dh_init, because I have disabled CONFIG_CRYPTO_DH.
>
> I don't know why dh_init() is slow. Maybe it has to compute a public key.
>

You can avoid loading the DH driver with the kernel parameter
initcall_blacklist=dh_init

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
In reply to this post by Finn Thain
On 6/10/19 2:14 AM, Finn Thain wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
>> installation of the basic system succeeded after about four hours, then
>> stopped at the "Configure the package manager" menu -- "Your
>> installation CD or DVD has been scanned ... Scan another CD or DVD?".  
>> I selected "No" and hit return:  no response, even after several hours.  
>
> Same here (QEMU). I was able to get past this by using j instead of
> enter/return.

>
> It seems that the old ADB keymap got enabled ("2==3" maps to "root").
> This page has some explanation.
> https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes
>
> ...


ok, thanks.  I didn't see a mapping for ":" at the above link, so I
wasn't able to specify the apt repository http://ftp.ports.debian.org

I retried the installation after adding
"keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes=1" to the kernel boot options, as
recommended at the above link.  The installation still failed.  So I'll
need to look more for a complete mapping to find the correct ":" character.

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Aranym installation, was Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
In reply to this post by Finn Thain

Using Aranym, I booted the kernel binary from the 2019-05-24 ISO with
these parameters:
debian-installer/framebuffer=false initcall_blacklist=dh_init

I found that the arrow keys stopped working after I selected the American
English keymap (this step can be skipped). It turns out that ctrl-P and
ctrl-N are substitutes for up-arrow and down-arrow keys.

I also found that the old installer bug which prevents CD-ROM drive
detection on Atari is still there. I had to spawn a shell to run these
commands:

# modprobe pata-falcon
# modprobe isofs
# mount /dev/sr0 /cdrom

Then the "Detect and mount CD-ROM" step then worked. (You can use
falconide and /dev/hdX instead.)

I had to select "no network card" after network detection failed. There's
probably some issue with my Aranym config; I never resolved this.

With those workarounds I was able to "install the base system".

As with the Mac installation, the console-setup package changed the
framebuffer console font and mangled the window borders. You can see the
terminus font problem in this screenshot:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-68k/2019/06/msg00019.html

The next steps in the installation ("configure the package manager",
"select and install software") seemingly aren't possible without a network
connection, so I skipped to "proceed without bootloader" which completed
successfully.

I was able to use the installed initrd and kernel to boot the new system
once I figured out that root=/dev/nfhdXpY. But that isn't going to work
outside of Aranym.

The system should be bootable using root=/dev/sdXY but this doesn't work
because the initrd fails to load the modules (pata-falcon, atari_scsi
etc.)

I found that the installer didn't list any modules in
/etc/initramfs-tools/modules.

HTH.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
In reply to this post by userm57
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 6/10/19 2:14 AM, Finn Thain wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> installation of the basic system succeeded after about four hours, then
> >> stopped at the "Configure the package manager" menu -- "Your
> >> installation CD or DVD has been scanned ... Scan another CD or DVD?".  
> >> I selected "No" and hit return:  no response, even after several hours.  
> >
> > Same here (QEMU). I was able to get past this by using j instead of
> > enter/return.
>
> >
> > It seems that the old ADB keymap got enabled ("2==3" maps to "root").
> > This page has some explanation.
> > https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes
> >
> > ...
>
>
> ok, thanks.  I didn't see a mapping for ":" at the above link, so I
> wasn't able to specify the apt repository http://ftp.ports.debian.org
>
> I retried the installation after adding
> "keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes=1" to the kernel boot options, as
> recommended at the above link.  The installation still failed.  So I'll
> need to look more for a complete mapping to find the correct ":" character.
>

Why not use the serial console?

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
On 6/10/19 7:20 PM, Finn Thain wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> I retried the installation after adding
>> "keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes=1" to the kernel boot options, as
>> recommended at the above link.  The installation still failed.  So I'll
>> need to look more for a complete mapping to find the correct ":" character.
>>
>
> Why not use the serial console?
>

I originally tried to use the serial console for the installation, but
it didn't seem to work (maybe I didn't give it enough time).  I'll try
again.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
In reply to this post by Finn Thain
On 6/10/19 7:20 PM, Finn Thain wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:
> ...
>>
>> I retried the installation after adding
>> "keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes=1" to the kernel boot options, as
>> recommended at the above link.  The installation still failed.  So I'll
>> need to look more for a complete mapping to find the correct ":" character.
>>
>
> Why not use the serial console?
>

Using the serial console works after all -- I just had to hit "1" to
start the installer.  I'll send another update if I learn a solution to
the keycode problem on the framebuffer console.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

Finn Thain
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, [hidden email] wrote:

> Using the serial console works after all -- I just had to hit "1" to
> start the installer.  I'll send another update if I learn a solution to
> the keycode problem on the framebuffer console.
>

Once you replace systemd, I imagine you could simply disable
/etc/init.d/keyboard-setup.sh which belongs to the console-setup-linux
package:
https://packages.debian.org/sid/all/console-setup-linux/filelist

There's probably a better way to resolve this using the configuration
files but I'm afraid I don't know what that might be.

You may want to file a bug report with bugs.debian.org against the
console-setup package (once you establish that
/etc/init.d/keyboard-setup.sh really is the cause of the problem).

It would be interesting to know whether this problem also affects
PowerMacs, being that some of those machines also use ADB HID.

BTW, when I install using Aranym (Atari ST) and boot the result using Qemu
(Quadra 800) there's no keymap problem. I assume that's because
console-setup-macintoshold-ekmap was never installed but I'm just
guessing.

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Re: Centris 650 Debian 10 SID Installation

userm57
In reply to this post by userm57
On 6/10/19 9:32 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> On 6/10/19 7:20 PM, Finn Thain wrote:
>>
>> Why not use the serial console?
>>

I was able to install a text-only installation on the Centris 650 using
the serial console ("console=ttyS0,9600n8").  It's not necessary to hit
"1"; the installation screen eventually comes up.

Here are a few observations and comments:

1) Approximate times were as follows:
   a) 30 min - from initial setup to prompting of a Debian mirror.
   b) 4 hrs  - from start of scan of Debian mirror to "popcon" prompt.
   c) 5 hrs  - from "popcon" prompt to completion of loading packages.
   d) 3 hrs  - from selection of "openssh server" and "system utilities"
to completion of installation.

2) After installation, the system was rebooted after a prompt.  A
question mark appeared on the main screen.  Booting from an external
disk, Mac OS volumes could be mounted manually using "Disk Utility", but
they were still not seen after a reboot.  The problem was fixed by
running "Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5p" and updating the Apple driver on the
affected disk.  So it seems likely that something in the installation
corrupted the Apple driver.

3) Booting into the new Linux installation using a 5.x kernel, the
kernel crashed after not finding a valid init.  As it turns out, if a
separate /usr is specified during the installation, then the system
won't boot, because /usr won't be mounted yet and the following
directories are symbolic links:

/bin -> usr/bin
/lib -> usr/lib
/sbin -> usr/sbin

I realize that most users will probably just use a single filesystem for
everything, but there have always been compelling reasons to use
separate root and usr partitions.  At any rate, if it doesn't work to
specify separate partitions, then the installer should warn about that
(or maybe have a "Root & Usr" partition option like NetBSD does and then
not allow specification of a separate /usr partition).

4) After booting into a backup partition (Debian 3.1) and backing up "/"
and "/usr" from the new installation, and then restoring everything to a
single "/" filesystem, the new system booted using the kernel (and
initrd) that were created during the installation.

5) The system never reached multiuser mode; the startup sequence looped
on "Starting Network Time Synchronization" (see attached console log
"Centris_650-Debian_10.txt").  The systemd timeout for this task was 1
min 30 sec, but it never succeeded within that limit (I let it try 10
times before forcing a reboot).  I'll try other things, including single
user mode and checking whether I can increase the limit somehow, or
possibly disable network time synchronization temporarily.

Thanks to all who are working so hard to keep it possible to install a
modern GNU/Linux system on 30-year-old hardware!

-Stan

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