Co-lo's and power

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Co-lo's and power

Jacob S
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Hello list,

While not Debian related, this is the best list I can think of that
would know the answers to my questions. (But these are Debian servers I
will be talking about, of course.)

At work we are considering moving our servers to a Co-lo facility,
because it is too expensive to get decent bandwidth at our office
($600+ for a 1.5Mbps T1).

However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own 15A
line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said it would
cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power line run to
our servers in their rack.

So, my question to the list is, do we really need that much power for
our servers? If yes, are Co-lo's deliberately undersizing their
power-feeds to get us to pay more, or are our servers that unusual? I
have trouble believing they're getting many people to pay $1100, so
that would tend to make me think they're not just trying to juice us,
but then again I'm no Co-lo expert.

Also, anyone have personal experience with a Co-lo they would
recommend? Bonus points if they allow us physical access to our servers.

TIA,
Jacob
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Re: Co-lo's and power

Seth Mattinen
Jacob S wrote:

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> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello list,
>
> While not Debian related, this is the best list I can think of that
> would know the answers to my questions. (But these are Debian servers I
> will be talking about, of course.)
>
> At work we are considering moving our servers to a Co-lo facility,
> because it is too expensive to get decent bandwidth at our office
> ($600+ for a 1.5Mbps T1).
>
> However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
> only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
> space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
> dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
> remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own 15A
> line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said it would
> cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power line run to
> our servers in their rack.
>
> So, my question to the list is, do we really need that much power for
> our servers? If yes, are Co-lo's deliberately undersizing their
> power-feeds to get us to pay more, or are our servers that unusual? I
> have trouble believing they're getting many people to pay $1100, so
> that would tend to make me think they're not just trying to juice us,
> but then again I'm no Co-lo expert.
>
> Also, anyone have personal experience with a Co-lo they would
> recommend? Bonus points if they allow us physical access to our servers.
>

Ask them if they have 208v anywhere instead of 110v; I prefer to give my
colos 208v since it lowers the amp draw. Obviously your equipment needs
to be capable of taking the higher voltage, but I haven't seen anything
yet that isn't.

--
Seth Mattinen [hidden email]
Roller Network LLC


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Re: Co-lo's and power

Jesse Molina
In reply to this post by Jacob S

Unless I am mistaken, you didn't list your geographical location.

We can't help you if you don't provide us with the information that we
obviously require.

I'm going to say that a good high quality 20 amp power strip should be
fine for your equipment, based on what you have described.  Look for a
NEMA 5-20 twistlock plug on the end of the power strip, leading into the
main row power distribution rail.

And, if in doubt, just plug it in and feel the cable and plug.  If it's
hot, that's bad.  Hot = bad.

Good luck


Jacob S wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello list,
>
> While not Debian related, this is the best list I can think of that
> would know the answers to my questions. (But these are Debian servers I
> will be talking about, of course.)
>
> At work we are considering moving our servers to a Co-lo facility,
> because it is too expensive to get decent bandwidth at our office
> ($600+ for a 1.5Mbps T1).
>
> However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
> only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
> space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
> dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
> remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own 15A
> line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said it would
> cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power line run to
> our servers in their rack.
>
> So, my question to the list is, do we really need that much power for
> our servers? If yes, are Co-lo's deliberately undersizing their
> power-feeds to get us to pay more, or are our servers that unusual? I
> have trouble believing they're getting many people to pay $1100, so
> that would tend to make me think they're not just trying to juice us,
> but then again I'm no Co-lo expert.
>
> Also, anyone have personal experience with a Co-lo they would
> recommend? Bonus points if they allow us physical access to our servers.
>
> TIA,
> Jacob
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--
# Jesse Molina
# Mail = [hidden email]
# Page = [hidden email]
# Cell = 1.602.323.7608
# Web  = http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/



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Re: Co-lo's and power

Joe Emenaker
In reply to this post by Jacob S
Jacob S wrote:
> However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
> only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
> space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
> dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
> remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own 15A
> line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said it would
> cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power line run to
> our servers in their rack.
Well, I haven't had this particular problem, but I'll mention a few
things that come to mind.
1 - Do you share the rack with other customers? If so, what happens when
they add your machines and it puts the rack over their max power draw?
They'll have multiple pissed-off customers on their hands. If they don't
want to lose them all, the co-lo will be pretty motivated to fix the
problem themselves. So, I think that $1,100 fee is subject to a little
brinkmanship. :)

2 - 15A for a fully-populated 42U seems quite low to me. I doubt that
they're maxing out each rack. If so, then they might be willing to put
some of your machines on a second rack (although you've probably looked
into this).
> So, my question to the list is, do we really need that much power for
> our servers?
Go to Home Depot and buy something called a "Kill-A-Watt". I love mine.
You plug it into the wall and plug other things into and it tells you
the supply voltage, frequency, wattage consumed, total kWh consumed, VA,
power-factor, supply current, etc. This way, you can find out exactly
how many amps each machine is pulling.

- Joe

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Re: Co-lo's and power

Roberto C. Sanchez
In reply to this post by Jesse Molina
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 02:17:50PM -0700, Jesse Molina wrote:

>
> Unless I am mistaken, you didn't list your geographical location.
>
> We can't help you if you don't provide us with the information that we
> obviously require.
>
> I'm going to say that a good high quality 20 amp power strip should be
> fine for your equipment, based on what you have described.  Look for a
> NEMA 5-20 twistlock plug on the end of the power strip, leading into the
> main row power distribution rail.
>
I don't think he is concerned about the actual plugs, but rather the
need to run another circuit.

Regards,

-Roberto

--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto

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Re: Co-lo's and power

Jacob S
In reply to this post by Jesse Molina
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:17:50 -0700
Jesse Molina <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Unless I am mistaken, you didn't list your geographical location.
>
> We can't help you if you don't provide us with the information that
> we obviously require.

The earth is our limit. lol

For physical access, SW Michigan would be the preferred area (about 2
hours away from Chicago). But the Dallas, Texas area might be a
possibility as well. And we have used a Co-lo in California previously,
so obviously physical access is not a requirement. Remote KVMs work
great, it is only the hardware problems that are a little harder to
solve without physical access.

> I'm going to say that a good high quality 20 amp power strip should
> be fine for your equipment, based on what you have described.  Look
> for a NEMA 5-20 twistlock plug on the end of the power strip, leading
> into the main row power distribution rail.

We have a power strip that can handle it no sweat. The question comes
in if their breaker that feeds our power strip is limited to 15A. And
they want $1100 to increase it/give us a 15A breaker separate from the
rest of the rack.

> And, if in doubt, just plug it in and feel the cable and plug.  If
> it's hot, that's bad.  Hot = bad.

hehe... I think most of the U.S. has been feeling that lately, with
this heat wave. :-)

Thanks,
Jacob
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Re: Co-lo's and power

Jacob S
In reply to this post by Joe Emenaker
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:26:36 -0700
Joe Emenaker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jacob S wrote:
> > However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
> > only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
> > space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
> > dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
> > remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own
> > 15A line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said
> > it would cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power
> > line run to our servers in their rack.

> Well, I haven't had this particular problem, but I'll mention a few
> things that come to mind.
> 1 - Do you share the rack with other customers?

Yes, the rack is shared with other customers.

> If so, what happens
> when they add your machines and it puts the rack over their max power
> draw? They'll have multiple pissed-off customers on their hands. If
> they don't want to lose them all, the co-lo will be pretty motivated
> to fix the problem themselves. So, I think that $1,100 fee is subject
> to a little brinkmanship. :)

That was my thought as well, but of course they'll only say that
they'll reset the breaker when we call about our servers being down.
And we can't afford to jump co-los very often because of the logistics
involved, so we hate to rely on them fixing the situation before it
kills us.

> 2 - 15A for a fully-populated 42U seems quite low to me. I doubt that
> they're maxing out each rack. If so, then they might be willing to
> put some of your machines on a second rack (although you've probably
> looked into this).

They won't do this for us unless 1) our current rack is full when we
need more servers added, or 2) we provide a 2nd network switch (and
we would need a 2nd kvm, as they don't like cables stretching between
racks).

> > So, my question to the list is, do we really need that much power
> > for our servers?

> Go to Home Depot and buy something called a "Kill-A-Watt". I love
> mine. You plug it into the wall and plug other things into and it
> tells you the supply voltage, frequency, wattage consumed, total kWh
> consumed, VA, power-factor, supply current, etc. This way, you can
> find out exactly how many amps each machine is pulling.

Good tip. Thanks.

Jacob
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Re: Co-lo's and power

Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana
El Martes, 8 de Agosto de 2006 22:54, Jacob S escribió:

> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:26:36 -0700
>
> Joe Emenaker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Jacob S wrote:
> > > However, most of the Co-lo's we have seen indicate that each rack is
> > > only fed with a 15 - 20A power line... to power the entire 42U of
> > > space. We have about six 1U servers currently and half of them are
> > > dual-P4 machines, all of them 2.8Ghz or faster. Add in a switch and
> > > remote kvm and we were under the impression we would need our own
> > > 15A line dedicated to our servers. But at least one Co-lo has said
> > > it would cost a one time fee of $1100 to get a dedicated 15A power
> > > line run to our servers in their rack.

I could only tell you about what we have here in Spain, we are on the Canary
Islands, but our Co-Lo is on Madrid, 3h away on Airplane, but we have people
working near the CoLo, so it's not a problem for us.
We pay 750€/month for a 45U rack with double 16A (220v here) inputs from
thiferents UPS-Diesel-Company networks, but we could only use one of them,
because the other one it's a backup one
Nowadays we have installed on the rack:
- 1 48p 10/100/1000 managed switch
- 2 dual Opteron servers (425W PSU each server)
- 8 single Pentiun IV servers (125W PSU each server)
- 1 LTO3 Autochanger (500W PSU)
- 1 KVM (35W PSU)
- 1 KVM IP (12W PSU)
- 1 TFT Monitor (25W)

and we have not any problem with energy

I think that 15A should be enought, you could allway do the calcs yourself ...
it's easy; At full load (and any server isn't allway at full PSU load), we
have:
1x43
2x425
8x125
1x500
1x35
1x12
1x25
------------
2465 W / 220v = 11,21A

That's and aproximation calc, but it's valid

--
Saludos.

Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana
Director Gerente
Dimensión Virtual S.L.

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Re: Co-lo's and power

anoop aryal
In reply to this post by Jacob S
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 16:46, Jacob S wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:17:50 -0700
>
> Jesse Molina <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Unless I am mistaken, you didn't list your geographical location.
> >
> > We can't help you if you don't provide us with the information that
> > we obviously require.
>
> The earth is our limit. lol
>
> For physical access, SW Michigan would be the preferred area (about 2
> hours away from Chicago).

you may want to check out XNet. they're in lisle, about an hour west of
chicago. they just finished their new data center and should have racks
available. they're a pretty decent bunch. we've co-lo'ed with them for 5-6
years now and haven't had major complaints. they do supply 20A (x2 i think -
but i could be wrong.) circuits for each rack.


> But the Dallas, Texas area might be a
> possibility as well. And we have used a Co-lo in California previously,
> so obviously physical access is not a requirement. Remote KVMs work
> great, it is only the hardware problems that are a little harder to
> solve without physical access.
>
> > I'm going to say that a good high quality 20 amp power strip should
> > be fine for your equipment, based on what you have described.  Look
> > for a NEMA 5-20 twistlock plug on the end of the power strip, leading
> > into the main row power distribution rail.
>
> We have a power strip that can handle it no sweat. The question comes
> in if their breaker that feeds our power strip is limited to 15A. And
> they want $1100 to increase it/give us a 15A breaker separate from the
> rest of the rack.
>
> > And, if in doubt, just plug it in and feel the cable and plug.  If
> > it's hot, that's bad.  Hot = bad.
>
> hehe... I think most of the U.S. has been feeling that lately, with
> this heat wave. :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Jacob

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anoop aryal
[hidden email]


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