Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

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Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Didar Hossain
Hi,

I am developing a perl application to be deployed on a production Debian Stable
VM. So far, my approach has been to use the debian perl packages (perl modules) and
stay within those facilities. I am the sole system operator and wannabe
developer, there are no teams of sysadmins or developers.

Do you guys who run production debian stable servers use the debian perl
packages or use something like PerlBrew? I asked this question on #perl IRC and
they answered "PerlBrew/plenv/perl-build" - I want some experienced opinions
from the debian community as well.

Regards,
Didar

--
All international orders must be accompanied by payment in U. S. funds.

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Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

tomas@tuxteam.de
On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:52:18PM +0530, Didar Hossain wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am developing a perl application to be deployed on a production Debian Stable
> VM. So far, my approach has been to use the debian perl packages (perl modules) and
> stay within those facilities. I am the sole system operator and wannabe
> developer, there are no teams of sysadmins or developers.
>
> Do you guys who run production debian stable servers use the debian perl
> packages or use something like PerlBrew? I asked this question on #perl IRC and
> they answered "PerlBrew/plenv/perl-build" - I want some experienced opinions
> from the debian community as well.
I tend to stick to Debian packages as my primary choice, resorting
to off-distribution packages when needed (e.g. not packaged for
Debian, or I /need/ a newer version). Of course it takes some foresight
to guess in advance whether you expect such a situation in the
future.

Rationale: they mesh better with the flow of system updates/upgrades.

I've found Perl packaging in Debian outstanding. The Debian Perl
packaging team does a damn good job indeed.

Cheers
-- tomás

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Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Jonas Smedegaard-2
In reply to this post by Didar Hossain
Hi Didar,

Quoting Didar Hossain (2019-07-01 18:22:18)

> I am developing a perl application to be deployed on a production
> Debian Stable VM. So far, my approach has been to use the debian perl
> packages (perl modules) and stay within those facilities. I am the
> sole system operator and wannabe developer, there are no teams of
> sysadmins or developers.
>
> Do you guys who run production debian stable servers use the debian
> perl packages or use something like PerlBrew? I asked this question on
> #perl IRC and they answered "PerlBrew/plenv/perl-build" - I want some
> experienced opinions from the debian community as well.
I do a bit of perl programming (am JONASS on CPAN) and am a Debian
developer as well.

I use cpanm occationally on my developer laptop, but on production
servers I only use Debian packages.  I might "cheat" and install
backported packages or even unofficial .deb packages, but never
"side-installed" code on production servers.  Reason is that I want a
single place to keep track of all code installed on the system: APT.

You might consider ask your question at the debian-perl mailinglist, as
you are more likely to reach Perl folks there, I guess.


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Nicholas Geovanis-2
I have worked in a couple places that prefer ActiveState perl.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 11:37 AM Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Didar,

Quoting Didar Hossain (2019-07-01 18:22:18)
> I am developing a perl application to be deployed on a production
> Debian Stable VM. So far, my approach has been to use the debian perl
> packages (perl modules) and stay within those facilities. I am the
> sole system operator and wannabe developer, there are no teams of
> sysadmins or developers.
>
> Do you guys who run production debian stable servers use the debian
> perl packages or use something like PerlBrew? I asked this question on
> #perl IRC and they answered "PerlBrew/plenv/perl-build" - I want some
> experienced opinions from the debian community as well.

I do a bit of perl programming (am JONASS on CPAN) and am a Debian
developer as well.

I use cpanm occationally on my developer laptop, but on production
servers I only use Debian packages.  I might "cheat" and install
backported packages or even unofficial .deb packages, but never
"side-installed" code on production servers.  Reason is that I want a
single place to keep track of all code installed on the system: APT.

You might consider ask your question at the debian-perl mailinglist, as
you are more likely to reach Perl folks there, I guess.


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Dave Sherohman-3
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:30:19PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:

> I tend to stick to Debian packages as my primary choice, resorting
> to off-distribution packages when needed (e.g. not packaged for
> Debian, or I /need/ a newer version). Of course it takes some foresight
> to guess in advance whether you expect such a situation in the
> future.
>
> Rationale: they mesh better with the flow of system updates/upgrades.
>
> I've found Perl packaging in Debian outstanding. The Debian Perl
> packaging team does a damn good job indeed.

Pretty much the same here.  I was initially hired as a Perl developer,
then gradually moved into more sysadmin duties and, in both roles, I
prefer to stick with the Debian-packaged perl binary.  It gets me
security updates as needed and the only reasons I see a particular need
for PerlBrew and the like are:

1) You need different compile-time options than Debian chooses

2) You need access to a feature that's only present in a newer-than-
   Debian Perl version

3) You want to have the "latest and greatest" for its own sake

Personally, I've never encountered #1 or #2 in practice and if #3
mattered to me, then I wouldn't be running Debian stable in the first
place.

--
Dave Sherohman

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Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Alex Mestiashvili-4
On 7/2/19 11:20 AM, Dave Sherohman wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:30:19PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I tend to stick to Debian packages as my primary choice, resorting
>> to off-distribution packages when needed (e.g. not packaged for
>> Debian, or I /need/ a newer version). Of course it takes some foresight
>> to guess in advance whether you expect such a situation in the
>> future.
>>
>> Rationale: they mesh better with the flow of system updates/upgrades.
>>
>> I've found Perl packaging in Debian outstanding. The Debian Perl
>> packaging team does a damn good job indeed.
>
> Pretty much the same here.  I was initially hired as a Perl developer,
> then gradually moved into more sysadmin duties and, in both roles, I
> prefer to stick with the Debian-packaged perl binary.  It gets me
> security updates as needed and the only reasons I see a particular need
> for PerlBrew and the like are:
>
> 1) You need different compile-time options than Debian chooses
>
> 2) You need access to a feature that's only present in a newer-than-
>    Debian Perl version
>
> 3) You want to have the "latest and greatest" for its own sake
>
> Personally, I've never encountered #1 or #2 in practice and if #3
> mattered to me, then I wouldn't be running Debian stable in the first
> place.
>

+1 here, but in case one need the "latest and greatest" modules, in most
cases it's dead simple to package a not-yet-packaged module with
cpan2deb from dh-make-perl package.

One of the benefits of this approach, is that you don't need to bring
compilers and sources of the dependencies to the production machine.
Build packages on a "development" node and install binary packages on
the production.

In case you need to replicate the setup, or you have more than one
machine one can maintain a repository,making installation of a new
system way easier.

And you also can contribute back to Debian in case you packaged a new
software.

Best,
Alex

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[RESOLVED/Thanks] Re: Debian Perl or Brew Perl for production application?

Didar Hossain
On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 01:36:52PM +0200, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:

> On 7/2/19 11:20 AM, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:30:19PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> I tend to stick to Debian packages as my primary choice, resorting
> >> to off-distribution packages when needed (e.g. not packaged for
> >> Debian, or I /need/ a newer version). Of course it takes some foresight
> >> to guess in advance whether you expect such a situation in the
> >> future.
> >>
> >> Rationale: they mesh better with the flow of system updates/upgrades.
> >>
> >> I've found Perl packaging in Debian outstanding. The Debian Perl
> >> packaging team does a damn good job indeed.
> >
> > Pretty much the same here.  I was initially hired as a Perl developer,
> > then gradually moved into more sysadmin duties and, in both roles, I
> > prefer to stick with the Debian-packaged perl binary.  It gets me
> > security updates as needed and the only reasons I see a particular need
> > for PerlBrew and the like are:
> >
> > 1) You need different compile-time options than Debian chooses
> >
> > 2) You need access to a feature that's only present in a newer-than-
> >    Debian Perl version
> >
> > 3) You want to have the "latest and greatest" for its own sake
> >
> > Personally, I've never encountered #1 or #2 in practice and if #3
> > mattered to me, then I wouldn't be running Debian stable in the first
> > place.
> >
>
> +1 here, but in case one need the "latest and greatest" modules, in most
> cases it's dead simple to package a not-yet-packaged module with
> cpan2deb from dh-make-perl package.
>
> One of the benefits of this approach, is that you don't need to bring
> compilers and sources of the dependencies to the production machine.
> Build packages on a "development" node and install binary packages on
> the production.
>
> In case you need to replicate the setup, or you have more than one
> machine one can maintain a repository,making installation of a new
> system way easier.
>
> And you also can contribute back to Debian in case you packaged a new
> software.
>
> Best,
> Alex

Thank you all for your responses.

My position was indeed to stick with debian packages for the same reasons you
all mentioned. I am simply prone to self-doubt as my background is more of a
systems admin rather than a developer.

Kind regards,
Didar

--
Anthony's Law of Force:
        Don't force it; get a larger hammer.