Debian Sid updates

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Debian Sid updates

Frank McCormick-3
I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a couple of
days. I gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster? I have
read some advice on the net that I should change my sources list to
point to Buster to avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?

Thanks

--
Frank McCormick

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Roberto C. Sánchez-2
On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:
> I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a couple of days. I
> gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster?

The soft freeze started a few days ago, so I would expect a significant
decline in the pace of new uploads to unstable.

> I have read some
> advice on the net that I should change my sources list to point to Buster to
> avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?
>
That approach is unlikely to work how you expect.  In particular, there
many packages in unstable which have been removed from buster and so
will not be part of the release.  If you have had your sources pointed
to "sid" and you change them to "buster" there is a possibility you
could end up with mix of packages from unstable and testing.  In some
cases, when a package exists in testing and a newer version in unstable
has been kept out of testing purpose, you may end up with the newer
buggy version from unstable and that may present problems for you.

The two most sensible approaches you can take are: 1) stick with
unstable, or, 2) install fresh from a buster beta installer.  Which you
choose depends on whether or not you eventually want to end up on
stable.

Regards,

-Roberto

--
Roberto C. Sánchez

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Frank McCormick-3
In reply to this post by Frank McCormick-3


On 2/23/19 10:05 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:
>> I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a couple of days. I
>> gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster?
>
> The soft freeze started a few days ago, so I would expect a significant
> decline in the pace of new uploads to unstable.
>
>> I have read some
>> advice on the net that I should change my sources list to point to Buster to
>> avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?
>>
> That approach is unlikely to work how you expect.  In particular, there
> many packages in unstable which have been removed from buster and so
> will not be part of the release.  If you have had your sources pointed
> to "sid" and you change them to "buster" there is a possibility you
> could end up with mix of packages from unstable and testing.  In some
> cases, when a package exists in testing and a newer version in unstable
> has been kept out of testing purpose, you may end up with the newer
> buggy version from unstable and that may present problems for you.
>
> The two most sensible approaches you can take are: 1) stick with
> unstable, or, 2) install fresh from a buster beta installer.  Which you
> choose depends on whether or not you eventually want to end up on
> stable.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>


   Thanks for the info. I'll stick with unstable for the moment.


--
Frank McCormick

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Default User


On Sat, Feb 23, 2019, 10:12 Frank McCormick <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 2/23/19 10:05 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:
>> I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a couple of days. I
>> gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster?
>
> The soft freeze started a few days ago, so I would expect a significant
> decline in the pace of new uploads to unstable.
>
>> I have read some
>> advice on the net that I should change my sources list to point to Buster to
>> avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?
>>
> That approach is unlikely to work how you expect.  In particular, there
> many packages in unstable which have been removed from buster and so
> will not be part of the release.  If you have had your sources pointed
> to "sid" and you change them to "buster" there is a possibility you
> could end up with mix of packages from unstable and testing.  In some
> cases, when a package exists in testing and a newer version in unstable
> has been kept out of testing purpose, you may end up with the newer
> buggy version from unstable and that may present problems for you.
>
> The two most sensible approaches you can take are: 1) stick with
> unstable, or, 2) install fresh from a buster beta installer.  Which you
> choose depends on whether or not you eventually want to end up on
> stable.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>


   Thanks for the info. I'll stick with unstable for the moment.


--
Frank McCormick


Frank, it's not your imagination. I run unstable also, and did notice in last few days less and more infrequent updates, which I suspected was because of the "freeze" process. 

(But just this morning, 43 updates, after zero last night.) And the number of updates available should be related to how "lean" your system is.

I agree with Roberto: I do not see any point in mixing in stuff from Buster with unstable. If you want unstable, and it works for you, then run unstable. Period. 

Works for me.

(NOTE: my opinion is free, and worth every penny!)


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Re: Debian Sid updates

Frank McCormick-3
In reply to this post by Frank McCormick-3


On 2/23/19 11:15 AM, Default User wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019, 10:12 Frank McCormick <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 2/23/19 10:05 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>      > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:
>      >> I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a
>     couple of days. I
>      >> gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster?
>      >
>      > The soft freeze started a few days ago, so I would expect a
>     significant
>      > decline in the pace of new uploads to unstable.
>      >
>      >> I have read some
>      >> advice on the net that I should change my sources list to point
>     to Buster to
>      >> avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?
>      >>
>      > That approach is unlikely to work how you expect.  In particular,
>     there
>      > many packages in unstable which have been removed from buster and so
>      > will not be part of the release.  If you have had your sources
>     pointed
>      > to "sid" and you change them to "buster" there is a possibility you
>      > could end up with mix of packages from unstable and testing.  In some
>      > cases, when a package exists in testing and a newer version in
>     unstable
>      > has been kept out of testing purpose, you may end up with the newer
>      > buggy version from unstable and that may present problems for you.
>      >
>      > The two most sensible approaches you can take are: 1) stick with
>      > unstable, or, 2) install fresh from a buster beta installer.
>     Which you
>      > choose depends on whether or not you eventually want to end up on
>      > stable.
>      >
>      > Regards,
>      >
>      > -Roberto
>      >
>
>
>         Thanks for the info. I'll stick with unstable for the moment.
>
>
>     --
>     Frank McCormick
>
>
>
> Frank, it's not your imagination. I run unstable also, and did notice in
> last few days less and more infrequent updates, which I suspected was
> because of the "freeze" process.
>
> (But just this morning, 43 updates, after zero last night.) And the
> number of updates available should be related to how "lean" your system is.
>
> I agree with Roberto: I do not see any point in mixing in stuff from
> Buster with unstable. If you want unstable, and it works for you, then
> run unstable. Period.
>
> Works for me.
>
> (NOTE: my opinion is free, and worth every penny!)
>
>


   Sounds like my experience...except even this morning there were no
updates. I'll stick with unstable...it seems that the most logical.

Thanks


--
Frank McCormick

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Re: Debian Sid updates

John Hasler-3
In reply to this post by Roberto C. Sánchez-2
Good advice from Roberto.  Also, I run Sid but do *not* upgrade
frequently.  Works fine.  I just keep an eye on on the development and
security lists so that I know when it is safe and/or prudent to upgrade.
Blindly "tracking" Sid can get you in trouble.  Don't forget that
packages (including new versions of packages you already have installed)
can be uploaded to Sid without all their dependencies being satisfied.

When I do upgrade I do "apt-get upgrade", look over what got held back
and why, and then decide whether or not to do "apt-get full-upgrade".
--
John Hasler
[hidden email]
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Frank McCormick-3
In reply to this post by Roberto C. Sánchez-2


On 2/23/19 12:22 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> Good advice from Roberto.  Also, I run Sid but do *not* upgrade
> frequently.  Works fine.  I just keep an eye on on the development and
> security lists so that I know when it is safe and/or prudent to upgrade.
> Blindly "tracking" Sid can get you in trouble.

I have been following Sid for 3 or 4 years and can onl think of
a couple of time it "broke" badly and even then this list was
a $Diety-send.


  Don't forget that
> packages (including new versions of packages you already have installed)
> can be uploaded to Sid without all their dependencies being satisfied.
>
> When I do upgrade I do "apt-get upgrade", look over what got held back
> and why, and then decide whether or not to do "apt-get full-upgrade".
>

I used to use apt-get all the time and from this list took the
suggestion that plain "apt" was a better choice. I don't recall why.
Before apt-get I used aptitude in the cli. Wish I could get
definitive answers. Although they don't seem to differ a lot
in execution. Actually a couple of times Synaptic dug me out of
trouble when the others couldn't.





--
Frank McCormick

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Joe Rowan
In reply to this post by Default User
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:15:09 -0500
Default User <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019, 10:12 Frank McCormick <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 2/23/19 10:05 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:  
> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:  
> > >> I am running Debian Sid and have not had any updates for a
> > >> couple of  
> > days. I  
> > >> gather this is because of the upcoming release of Buster?  
> > >
> > > The soft freeze started a few days ago, so I would expect a
> > > significant decline in the pace of new uploads to unstable.
> > >  
> > >> I have read some
> > >> advice on the net that I should change my sources list to point
> > >> to  
> > Buster to  
> > >> avoid a cascade of updates. Is this advisable ?
> > >>  
> > > That approach is unlikely to work how you expect.  In particular,
> > > there many packages in unstable which have been removed from
> > > buster and so will not be part of the release.  If you have had
> > > your sources pointed to "sid" and you change them to "buster"
> > > there is a possibility you could end up with mix of packages from
> > > unstable and testing.  In some cases, when a package exists in
> > > testing and a newer version in unstable has been kept out of
> > > testing purpose, you may end up with the newer buggy version from
> > > unstable and that may present problems for you.
> > >
> > > The two most sensible approaches you can take are: 1) stick with
> > > unstable, or, 2) install fresh from a buster beta installer.
> > > Which you choose depends on whether or not you eventually want to
> > > end up on stable.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > -Roberto
> > >  
> >
> >
> >    Thanks for the info. I'll stick with unstable for the moment.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Frank McCormick
> >  
>
>
> Frank, it's not your imagination. I run unstable also, and did notice
> in last few days less and more infrequent updates, which I suspected
> was because of the "freeze" process.
>
> (But just this morning, 43 updates, after zero last night.) And the
> number of updates available should be related to how "lean" your
> system is.
>
> I agree with Roberto: I do not see any point in mixing in stuff from
> Buster with unstable. If you want unstable, and it works for you,
> then run unstable. Period.
>
> Works for me.
>
> (NOTE: my opinion is free, and worth every penny!)

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Re: Debian Sid updates

John Hasler-3
In reply to this post by Frank McCormick-3
I wrote apt-get out of habit.  Apt has now absorbed all of apt-get's
features and is the end-user tool.  It could break backward
compatibility in the future if that seems warranted.  Apt-get is for
scripts and will remain backward-compatible if possible.

Thus it makes no difference which you use, except in that if you use
apt-get exclusively you might miss out on some new features.
--
John Hasler
[hidden email]
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: Debian Sid updates

Frank McCormick-3
In reply to this post by Frank McCormick-3


On 2/23/19 5:34 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote apt-get out of habit.  Apt has now absorbed all of apt-get's
> features and is the end-user tool.  It could break backward
> compatibility in the future if that seems warranted.  Apt-get is for
> scripts and will remain backward-compatible if possible.
>
> Thus it makes no difference which you use, except in that if you use
> apt-get exclusively you might miss out on some new features.
>



   Seems like continuing with apt is the best idea.


--
Frank McCormick