Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

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Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Ulrike Uhlig
On August 2nd 2018 ~20 people met for a Debian Women (DW) lunch at
DebConf 18 in Taiwan.

We had two main subjects:

- the future of DW
- Outreachy & GSoC interns
- Mentoring outside of internships

Everybody who was there: if I forgot something or you want to put your
contact details and or notes: I'll add this document to
gobby.debian.org/BoF/DebianWomen. Please do not hesitate to improve my
notes.

Thanks!
Ulrike

Mailing list & DW @ DebConf
===========================

There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the
future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal:

- the list does not seem to be used very much nowadays

- is seems better to have no communication channel than a dead one

- it has lost some of its previous purpose (being an information channel
  on an internal mentorship program)

- it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
  identify as women instead of opening it up to a diversity of genders
  (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more
  intersectional approach to underrepresented groups.

As there was no clear consensus between participants and because we have
not talked it through with the Debian Diversity team in the becoming, we
agreed not to decide on the matter during the lunch but to give it some
time. (Note that this was already similarly proposed during DebConf15 in
Heidelberg three years ago.)

Some version of "we" also felt that it's still important to be able to
meet and connect with (newcomers|old) people who identify as women at
events such as DebConf, where many genders are underrepresented. It
helps to create connection and link between each other, and also makes
us more visible.

→ It would thus be great if the DW lunch took place earlier during the
event. (hint: content team) (On a personal note: "we" might want to make
& rename this event to something more inclusive.)

→ It was mentioned that at previous DebConfs there were "New to DebConf"
sessions. We think it would be great to reintroduce those. (hint:
content team)

Outreachy & GSoC
================

There were ~5 current interns with Outreachy/GSoC present at the lunch.

We said that Outreachy rounds are currently not very visible in Debian,
and we should either automate sending updates about new rounds to Debian
Women or count on Molly to do it.

A question that came up is: How do we keep volunteers in the project? It
seems that some of the current interns said they'd like some guidance on
how to continue to work for the Debian project and were currently
lacking it. Interns that worked within teams however seem to feel better
integrated and able to continue.

For interns to be able to connect to our community (and vice versa), it
might be useful to have Outreachy and GSoC students have a plenary
session about their work early during the conference. (hint: content-team)

- Tassia proposed to write down some tips for mentors in Debian /
  Outreachy / GSoC in order to better integrate interns in our
  community.

- Helen proposes to list some follow up tips for work in Debian for
  current and future mentees.

- We could also create a wikipage on how to contribute → this should
  eventually be done under the debian-diversity umbrella. (Volunteers?)

- On this wikipage let's also link to the debian-mentors mailing list
  (not IRC, which is for packaging).

- It has also been said about mentoring that many people don't dare
  asking on mailing lists out of fear: a question perceived as silly
  might stay there forever.

- Karen stated that it is currently hard for people who are neither
  mentors, mentees or admins of Outreachy to help out: Outreachy should
  become more volunteer friendly in that regard. (This item lacks a
  concrete TODO.)

Mentoring
=========

Another thing that DW did in the past was mentoring. However, the
mentoring program has since been replaced by the Outreach program. We
agreed that it would be great to have another kind of mentoring, which
is not limited to Outreachy or GSoC, and that would help people who
start or continue contributing to Debian.

- Helen is currently proposing a packaging workshop every Thursday
  evening, in portuguese. If people are interested, she could also do
  such a workshop in English

- Ulrike proposed to one person present to help her on a one-to-one
  basis find her way in Debian and be her rubberduck, something she's
  trying to do since a year, after having attended DebConf twice.

Cheers!
Ulrike

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Holger Levsen-2
Hi Ulrike,

thanks for posting this summary! I'm replying to the list and not to
gobby as I'm currently offline on my back from dc18...

On Sun, Aug 05, 2018 at 06:19:00AM +0000, Ulrike Uhlig wrote:
> Mailing list & DW @ DebConf
> ===========================
>
> There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the
> future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal:
[...]
> - it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>   identify as women instead [...]

while I agree with this reasoning I'd like to point out that this list
when it was started was open to all, as was the Debian women project
when it was started 13-14 years ago at DebConf4+5.

This seemed strange to me (coming from a different political background
than most people involved back then, thus I also never felt like it was
my business anyway...) though it probably made more sense back then,
when the number of female developer was a lot lower than it is today.

(The percentage is still very much in the same order of magnitude, just
the absolute number trippled or so ;)

I'm not aware that this ever (formally) changed, though it probably has
changed informally / in the minds of the people over the years.

(And I'll continue to be a non-involved supporting bystander anyway, I
just wanted to share some bits of history here.)


two very minor remarks:

> → It would thus be great if the DW lunch took place earlier during the
> event. (hint: content team)

I believe the content team was not involved in scheduled the DW lunch.

> → It was mentioned that at previous DebConfs there were "New to DebConf"
> sessions. We think it would be great to reintroduce those. (hint:
> content team)
 
(I'm not sure how you mean those hints, I guess you plan to inform the
content team?)

To the topic (of "new to DebConf" sessions) what worked nicely during the
"DebCamp" days of the miniDebconf in Hamburg were daily standup meetings
where everyone (who wanted) very briefly stated what they were working
on, which helped new and 'old' people alike to better connect to others.
I'm not sure this concept can be used at a bigger debcamp, but it surely
worked well with 30-40 people.

Key points of this format are: everybody is standing (thus helping sure
it stays short and everybody pays attention) and forming a circle, where
everyone explains very briefly (1-2 sentences, sometimes just 2-3 words)
what they are doing or would like to do.

Then, after the circle people can approach each other and say things
like: "you seem to work on foo, i'm also interested in foo..."


--
cheers,
        Holger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    holger@(debian|reproducible-builds).org

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Tassia Camoes Araujo
Hi Holger!

On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 05:56:17PM +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:
>
> thanks for posting this summary! I'm replying to the list and not to
> gobby as I'm currently offline on my back from dc18...
>
Yep, thanks Ulrike for the summary!
 
> I believe the content team was not involved in scheduled the DW lunch.
>
No, it was an informal gathering, and not part of the official schedule.

> (I'm not sure how you mean those hints, I guess you plan to inform the
> content team?)
>
I was present and I'm part of the content team, so you can consider the
team is informed ;-)
 

> To the topic (of "new to DebConf" sessions) what worked nicely during the
> "DebCamp" days of the miniDebconf in Hamburg were daily standup meetings
> where everyone (who wanted) very briefly stated what they were working
> on, which helped new and 'old' people alike to better connect to others.
> I'm not sure this concept can be used at a bigger debcamp, but it surely
> worked well with 30-40 people.
>
> Key points of this format are: everybody is standing (thus helping sure
> it stays short and everybody pays attention) and forming a circle, where
> everyone explains very briefly (1-2 sentences, sometimes just 2-3 words)
> what they are doing or would like to do.
>
> Then, after the circle people can approach each other and say things
> like: "you seem to work on foo, i'm also interested in foo..."
>
Thanks for those hints, I'll forward them to the content team.

If we follow your suggestion, than it might be better to run this
session in an open space, as opposed to an auditorium? Would it work
as a daily moment of "checkin" in one of the hacklabs? Or just after
lunch, at the cafeteria?

Anyways, we'll be in a better position to discuss the format once we
approach DC19 and have a better idea of how we're gonna use the available
space.

Apart from this meet-and-greet session, someone might also want to
propose a "new do DebConf" session in the lines of what we had
some years ago, more focused on the conference itself ("surviving
debconf"?).

Cheers,

Tassia.

u
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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

u
In reply to this post by Holger Levsen-2
Hi!

Holger Levsen:

> To the topic (of "new to DebConf" sessions) what worked nicely during the
> "DebCamp" days of the miniDebconf in Hamburg were daily standup meetings
> where everyone (who wanted) very briefly stated what they were working
> on, which helped new and 'old' people alike to better connect to others.
> I'm not sure this concept can be used at a bigger debcamp, but it surely
> worked well with 30-40 people.
>
> Key points of this format are: everybody is standing (thus helping sure
> it stays short and everybody pays attention) and forming a circle, where
> everyone explains very briefly (1-2 sentences, sometimes just 2-3 words)
> what they are doing or would like to do.
>
> Then, after the circle people can approach each other and say things
> like: "you seem to work on foo, i'm also interested in foo..."

This feels like you already need to be very much self aware and have a
lot of self esteem, and hence I don't think this format is suitable - it
might be too exclusive.

But! I like what they do at those IETF meetings, where everybody can
write on their badge "Talk to me about…" And then all sorts of things,
technical or non-technical can be filled in. I believe this lowers the
barrier and I'd be very much in favor of such a thing.

Cheers!
ulrike

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Miriam Ruiz-4
In reply to this post by Holger Levsen-2
I haven't been able to attend DebConf 18 this year, so I couldn't
attend Debian Women lunch at DebConf 18. Thus, I don't have any first
hand information about what was spoken there, apart from Ulrike's
email. I wanted to comment something, though, about my personal view
on something that Holger commented in his email:

2018-08-07 19:56 GMT+02:00 Holger Levsen <[hidden email]>:

>> There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the
>> future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal:
> [...]
>> - it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>>   identify as women instead [...]
>
> while I agree with this reasoning I'd like to point out that this list
> when it was started was open to all, as was the Debian women project
> when it was started 13-14 years ago at DebConf4+5.

I have always understood the Debian Women project as project inside
Debian that works to promote the involvement of more women in its
development. Thus, in my opinion, it still be open to everyone that
wants to work along these lines. While I think that the original text
from Ulrike can be perfectly understood in that sense (and while
making it also clear that I personally agree with the proposal), I
think that maybe it might be more clear if, instead of::

"""
 it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
  identify as women instead of opening it up to a diversity of genders
  (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more
  intersectional approach to underrepresented groups.
"""

it would be read as:

"""
 it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to just people who
 want to promote the involvement of more people who identify as women
 in the development of Debian, instead of opening it up to working towards
 the involvement of more people who might identify with a diversity of genders
 (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more intersectional
 approach to underrepresented groups.
"""

Please, do not take this email in the wrong sense. I am not picky
about the language used and I am perfectly okay with the text in the
original email. I also don't want to complicate things in the name of
linguistic or political correctness or anything like that. I just
wanted to point out that, from the overall context of Debian, Debian
Women and this mailing list, the original text did not have to be
understood as a rejection of males. At least that's my point of view,
of course. Others might think differently.

Hugs,
Miry

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Meet-and-greet in Debian conferences

Tassia Camoes Araujo
In reply to this post by u
Hi!

On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 10:23:00AM +0000, u wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Holger Levsen:
>
> > To the topic (of "new to DebConf" sessions) what worked nicely during the
> > "DebCamp" days of the miniDebconf in Hamburg were daily standup meetings
> > where everyone (who wanted) very briefly stated what they were working
> > on, which helped new and 'old' people alike to better connect to others.
> > I'm not sure this concept can be used at a bigger debcamp, but it surely
> > worked well with 30-40 people.
> >
> > Key points of this format are: everybody is standing (thus helping sure
> > it stays short and everybody pays attention) and forming a circle, where
> > everyone explains very briefly (1-2 sentences, sometimes just 2-3 words)
> > what they are doing or would like to do.
> >
> > Then, after the circle people can approach each other and say things
> > like: "you seem to work on foo, i'm also interested in foo..."
>
> This feels like you already need to be very much self aware and have a
> lot of self esteem, and hence I don't think this format is suitable - it
> might be too exclusive.
>
Thanks for bringing this up. I agree that some people would not feel
confortable to speak, so it might not be as effetive. But I still think
that having such a space in DebConf would be beneficial, and we would
have a challenge at hands, that is to create a welcoming environment for
all, making sure that people feel safe to speak.
 
> But! I like what they do at those IETF meetings, where everybody can
> write on their badge "Talk to me about…" And then all sorts of things,
> technical or non-technical can be filled in. I believe this lowers the
> barrier and I'd be very much in favor of such a thing.
>
This approach has the issue of one needing to get physically close to
someone else to be able to read their badge, and not everyone would be
comfortable with that either.

Another idea:

Maybe we could print a huge "map of Debian contributions", set it up
in a convenient place (not hidden in the corner) with enough space
for people to sign in their names beside the areas they work on, or that
they would like to talk to people about. This way people would at least
know who are the people they should talk too, and we could also have
some specific times that people would be encouraged to meet up close to
the map to chat with their peers.

Do you see any barrier with this approach?

Tassia.

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Re: Meet-and-greet in Debian conferences

Holger Levsen-2
On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Tassia Camoes Araujo wrote:
> If we follow your suggestion, than it might be better to run this
> session in an open space, as opposed to an auditorium? Would it work
> as a daily moment of "checkin" in one of the hacklabs? Or just after
> lunch, at the cafeteria?

the question of when is a bit tricky, yes.

for the location I think a space where we can form a big circle
(elipse) would work best, so probaly neither the food space nor an
auditorium, maybe the hacklab or a big corridor. (in hamburg we did it
in the hacklab).

On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 08:32:14AM -0300, Tassia Camoes Araujo wrote:
> > This feels like you already need to be very much self aware and have a
> > lot of self esteem, and hence I don't think this format is suitable - it
> > might be too exclusive.
> Thanks for bringing this up. I agree that some people would not feel
> confortable to speak, so it might not be as effetive. But I still think
> that having such a space in DebConf would be beneficial, and we would
> have a challenge at hands, that is to create a welcoming environment for
> all, making sure that people feel safe to speak.
 
yup. of course not everyone will be speak in such setting, but some more
will, even if 'only' to say 'hi, i'm new here and i would like to learn
more about foo' or some such. also new people can learn what others are
doing and then approach them privately and mentor type people can see whom
they could help or who is to shy to speak in a circle etc.

IOW: it helps and lowers barriers, so its not perfect, some barriers
will still exist.

> > But! I like what they do at those IETF meetings, where everybody can
> > write on their badge "Talk to me about…" And then all sorts of things,
> > technical or non-technical can be filled in. I believe this lowers the
> > barrier and I'd be very much in favor of such a thing.

this years badges allowed for this and writing ones interests was
encouraged, iirc :)

> Another idea:
>
> Maybe we could print a huge "map of Debian contributions", set it up
> in a convenient place (not hidden in the corner) with enough space
> for people to sign in their names beside the areas they work on, or that
> they would like to talk to people about.

/me likes


If we follow your suggestion, than it might be better to run this
session in an open space, as opposed to an auditorium? Would it work
as a daily moment of "checkin" in one of the hacklabs? Or just after
lunch, at the cafeteria?


--
cheers,
        Holger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    holger@(debian|reproducible-builds).org

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

gregor herrmann-3
In reply to this post by u
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 10:23:00 +0000, u wrote:

> Holger Levsen:
> > Key points of this format are: everybody is standing (thus helping sure
> > it stays short and everybody pays attention) and forming a circle, where
> > everyone explains very briefly (1-2 sentences, sometimes just 2-3 words)
> > what they are doing or would like to do.
> This feels like you already need to be very much self aware and have a
> lot of self esteem, and hence I don't think this format is suitable - it
> might be too exclusive.

Just as a data point: In Hamburg there were also people in the room
(either standing in the "circle" or sitting outside of it at the
tables) who chose not to say something themselves. That was perfectly
fine, and they still heard what others were working on.
 
I guess there's no single-fits-them-all method, so the more we try
(standups, badges, maps, other things), the better.


Cheers,
gregor

--
 .''`.  https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org
 : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D  85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
 `. `'  Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe
   `-   NP: Simon & Garfunkel: I Am A Rock

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Re: Meet-and-greet in Debian conferences

u
In reply to this post by Tassia Camoes Araujo
Hi!

Tassia Camoes Araujo:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 10:23:00AM +0000, u wrote:
>> Holger Levsen:

>>> Then, after the circle people can approach each other and say things
>>> like: "you seem to work on foo, i'm also interested in foo..."
>>
>> This feels like you already need to be very much self aware and have a
>> lot of self esteem, and hence I don't think this format is suitable - it
>> might be too exclusive.
>>
> Thanks for bringing this up. I agree that some people would not feel
> confortable to speak, so it might not be as effetive. But I still think
> that having such a space in DebConf would be beneficial, and we would
> have a challenge at hands, that is to create a welcoming environment for
> all, making sure that people feel safe to speak.

Ack.

>> But! I like what they do at those IETF meetings, where everybody can
>> write on their badge "Talk to me about…" And then all sorts of things,
>> technical or non-technical can be filled in. I believe this lowers the
>> barrier and I'd be very much in favor of such a thing.
>>
> This approach has the issue of one needing to get physically close to
> someone else to be able to read their badge, and not everyone would be
> comfortable with that either.
>
> Another idea:
>
> Maybe we could print a huge "map of Debian contributions", set it up
> in a convenient place (not hidden in the corner) with enough space
> for people to sign in their names beside the areas they work on, or that
> they would like to talk to people about. This way people would at least
> know who are the people they should talk too, and we could also have
> some specific times that people would be encouraged to meet up close to
> the map to chat with their peers.
>
> Do you see any barrier with this approach?

This is a *great* idea! Yes please, by all means. This could even extend
after DebConf :)

Cheers!
Ulrike

u
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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

u
In reply to this post by Miriam Ruiz-4
Hi!

Miriam Ruiz:

> 2018-08-07 19:56 GMT+02:00 Holger Levsen <[hidden email]>:
>
>>> There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the
>>> future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal:
>> [...]
>>> - it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>>>   identify as women instead [...]
>>
>> while I agree with this reasoning I'd like to point out that this list
>> when it was started was open to all, as was the Debian women project
>> when it was started 13-14 years ago at DebConf4+5.
>
> I have always understood the Debian Women project as project inside
> Debian that works to promote the involvement of more women in its
> development. Thus, in my opinion, it still be open to everyone that
> wants to work along these lines. While I think that the original text
> from Ulrike can be perfectly understood in that sense (and while
> making it also clear that I personally agree with the proposal), I
> think that maybe it might be more clear if, instead of::
>
> """
>  it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>   identify as women instead of opening it up to a diversity of genders
>   (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more
>   intersectional approach to underrepresented groups.
> """
>
> it would be read as:
>
> """
>  it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to just people who
>  want to promote the involvement of more people who identify as women
>  in the development of Debian, instead of opening it up to working towards
>  the involvement of more people who might identify with a diversity of genders
>  (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more intersectional
>  approach to underrepresented groups.
> """

Thanks for clarifying that. :) I agree.

I was trying to retranscribe the fact that the person who made this
proposal (me, actually) finds it too restrictive to solely involve more
people who identify as women. (While there are many more
underrepresented groups and possible gender (non)identifications.)

> Please, do not take this email in the wrong sense. I am not picky
> about the language used and I am perfectly okay with the text in the
> original email. I also don't want to complicate things in the name of
> linguistic or political correctness or anything like that. I just
> wanted to point out that, from the overall context of Debian, Debian
> Women and this mailing list, the original text did not have to be
> understood as a rejection of males. At least that's my point of view,
> of course. Others might think differently.

Absolutely.

Ulrike

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Molly de Blanc
I'd like to chime in and also thank Ulrike for taking notes.

I have some thoughts on this thread:

Debian Women -> Debian Diversity

I think this is a great idea (I supported it!). By widening the scope I
hope we can accomplish 1) making Debian even more welcoming and 2)
increase capacity for activities.

It was also explicitly stated that a merge would not mean deprecating
Debian Women, per se. It feels as though the major activities is holding
the occasional DW Mini DebConf, the DW lunch, and occasionally chatting
(or dealing with trolls) on IRC. So, events could easily still have a DW
lunch, but could also have a Debian Queer/LGBTQI+ lunch.

Mentorship

COME JOIN THE OUTREACH TEAM! Please. Please please please. We'll be
gearing up for submitting our application for the next round of
Outreachy soon enough (!!!), and having more people involved would be great.

I'd love to see DW/DD and the Outreach team collaborate on other
mentorship initiatives as well.

If people are interested in talking about any of this mentorship stuff
in the near term, we can plan some IRC meetings.

Cheers,
Molly



On 08/09/2018 03:37 PM, u wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Miriam Ruiz:
>
>> 2018-08-07 19:56 GMT+02:00 Holger Levsen <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>>> There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the
>>>> future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal:
>>> [...]
>>>> - it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>>>>   identify as women instead [...]
>>>
>>> while I agree with this reasoning I'd like to point out that this list
>>> when it was started was open to all, as was the Debian women project
>>> when it was started 13-14 years ago at DebConf4+5.
>>
>> I have always understood the Debian Women project as project inside
>> Debian that works to promote the involvement of more women in its
>> development. Thus, in my opinion, it still be open to everyone that
>> wants to work along these lines. While I think that the original text
>> from Ulrike can be perfectly understood in that sense (and while
>> making it also clear that I personally agree with the proposal), I
>> think that maybe it might be more clear if, instead of::
>>
>> """
>>  it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who
>>   identify as women instead of opening it up to a diversity of genders
>>   (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more
>>   intersectional approach to underrepresented groups.
>> """
>>
>> it would be read as:
>>
>> """
>>  it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to just people who
>>  want to promote the involvement of more people who identify as women
>>  in the development of Debian, instead of opening it up to working towards
>>  the involvement of more people who might identify with a diversity of genders
>>  (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more intersectional
>>  approach to underrepresented groups.
>> """
>
> Thanks for clarifying that. :) I agree.
>
> I was trying to retranscribe the fact that the person who made this
> proposal (me, actually) finds it too restrictive to solely involve more
> people who identify as women. (While there are many more
> underrepresented groups and possible gender (non)identifications.)
>
>> Please, do not take this email in the wrong sense. I am not picky
>> about the language used and I am perfectly okay with the text in the
>> original email. I also don't want to complicate things in the name of
>> linguistic or political correctness or anything like that. I just
>> wanted to point out that, from the overall context of Debian, Debian
>> Women and this mailing list, the original text did not have to be
>> understood as a rejection of males. At least that's my point of view,
>> of course. Others might think differently.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> Ulrike
>

u
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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

u
Hi!

Molly de Blanc:

> COME JOIN THE OUTREACH TEAM! Please. Please please please. We'll be
> gearing up for submitting our application for the next round of
> Outreachy soon enough (!!!), and having more people involved would be great.
>
> I'd love to see DW/DD and the Outreach team collaborate on other
> mentorship initiatives as well.
>
> If people are interested in talking about any of this mentorship stuff
> in the near term, we can plan some IRC meetings.

Let's do that.

I think I would not be able to provide long term mentorship to anybody
because I am too busy with other things. But: I'd happily be a point of
contact for all sorts of questions, like "What do I need to do in order
to $XYZ?" "Who can I talk to about $ABC?" etc. Or could there be a
private mailing list for such questions? Private so that people dare to ask?

My personal feeling is that we need a list of useful things for
newcomers, and I'd like to (collaboratively) work on that. For example:
How do I use the BTS? Where can I learn more about packaging? How can I
get involved in a team? Which team needs help? Which bugs could I work
on? Where can I retrieve all sorts of information about packages? How
can I see who maintains a package and contact them? Links to interesting
parts of Debian: Autodeb, Debtags, UDD… etc.

During the lunch we talked about reviewing/writing a newcomer page and
this kind of stuff could go in there.

I guess we could make that happen by scheduling one 2-hour or two 1-hour
collaborative working session(s) over pad or Gobby… Sometime in September?

Cheers!
Ulrike

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Laura Arjona Reina-4


Hi!

El 11 de agosto de 2018 13:32:00 CEST, u <[hidden email]> escribió:

>Hi!
>
>Molly de Blanc:
>
>> COME JOIN THE OUTREACH TEAM! Please. Please please please. We'll be
>> gearing up for submitting our application for the next round of
>> Outreachy soon enough (!!!), and having more people involved would be
>great.
>>
>> I'd love to see DW/DD and the Outreach team collaborate on other
>> mentorship initiatives as well.
>>
>> If people are interested in talking about any of this mentorship
>stuff
>> in the near term, we can plan some IRC meetings.
>
>Let's do that.
>
>I think I would not be able to provide long term mentorship to anybody
>because I am too busy with other things. But: I'd happily be a point of
>contact for all sorts of questions, like "What do I need to do in order
>to $XYZ?" "Who can I talk to about $ABC?" etc. Or could there be a
>private mailing list for such questions? Private so that people dare to
>ask?
>

For that, for now, we have the welcome team and its page and subpages:

https://wiki.debian.org/Welcome

And the irc channel #debian-welcome

Please join the channel, add yourself to the wiki to let people know that you are available and for what:
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Welcome


>My personal feeling is that we need a list of useful things for
>newcomers, and I'd like to (collaboratively) work on that. For example:
>How do I use the BTS? Where can I learn more about packaging? How can I
>get involved in a team? Which team needs help? Which bugs could I work
>on? Where can I retrieve all sorts of information about packages? How
>can I see who maintains a package and contact them? Links to
>interesting
>parts of Debian: Autodeb, Debtags, UDD… etc.
>

We also have:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/NewbieTasks

And

https://www.debian.org/intro/help

Cheers

>During the lunch we talked about reviewing/writing a newcomer page and
>this kind of stuff could go in there.
>
>I guess we could make that happen by scheduling one 2-hour or two
>1-hour
>collaborative working session(s) over pad or Gobby… Sometime in
>September?
>
>Cheers!
>Ulrike

--
Laura Arjona Reina
https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Sent with K-9 mail

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Ulrike Uhlig
Hi!

Laura Arjona Reina:

Thanks for pointing out these links that I was half-aware of :)

Can we collect those somewhere eventually and make them available on a
glance? i.e. somewhere DebianWomen or/and DebianDiversity related? I
could do that at some point but I haven't yet looked where it can be done.

Cheers!
u.

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Helen Koike-3
In reply to this post by Laura Arjona Reina-4
Hi Ulrike,

Thank you very much for your notes.

Regarding DW/DD:

> It was also explicitly stated that a merge would not mean deprecating
> Debian Women, per se. It feels as though the major activities is
> holding the occasional DW Mini DebConf, the DW lunch, and
> occasionally chatting (or dealing with trolls) on IRC. So, events
> could easily still have a DW lunch, but could also have a Debian
> Queer/LGBTQI+ lunch.

I feel that we have too many lists and channels already with low
traffic, Maybe we could use a single communication channel to coordinate
DW lunch, or Debian Queer/LGBTQI+ lunch, or even newcomers lunch.

On 08/11/2018 08:53 AM, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:

>
>
> Hi!
>
> El 11 de agosto de 2018 13:32:00 CEST, u <[hidden email]> escribió:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Molly de Blanc:
>>
>>> COME JOIN THE OUTREACH TEAM! Please. Please please please. We'll
>>> be gearing up for submitting our application for the next round
>>> of Outreachy soon enough (!!!), and having more people involved
>>> would be
>> great.
>>>
>>> I'd love to see DW/DD and the Outreach team collaborate on other
>>> mentorship initiatives as well.
>>>
>>> If people are interested in talking about any of this mentorship
>> stuff
>>> in the near term, we can plan some IRC meetings.

I really want to help, but I am too busy this month, but probably next
month I'll be able to help here.

I would like to help to organize a set of task for volunteers, things
that I remember:

- Help to automate publishing new rounds to mailing lists
- Help to organize meetings between the participants / mentors / organizers
- Help to organize an Outreachy sprint (?)
- Help with fund raising
- Become a mentor / co-mentor
- ... (?)

>>
>> Let's do that.
>>
>> I think I would not be able to provide long term mentorship to
>> anybody because I am too busy with other things. But: I'd happily
>> be a point of contact for all sorts of questions, like "What do I
>> need to do in order to $XYZ?" "Who can I talk to about $ABC?" etc.
>> Or could there be a private mailing list for such questions?
>> Private so that people dare to ask?
>>
>
> For that, for now, we have the welcome team and its page and
> subpages:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Welcome
>
> And the irc channel #debian-welcome

Quick help here:

"#debian-welcome: Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and
verified to join this channel"

I am already identified, how can I do the "verified" part?

Also, shouldn't the channel be easy for newcomers to join?

>
> Please join the channel, add yourself to the wiki to let people know
that you are available and for what:

> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Welcome
>
>
>> My personal feeling is that we need a list of useful things for
>> newcomers, and I'd like to (collaboratively) work on that. For
>> example: How do I use the BTS? Where can I learn more about
>> packaging? How can I get involved in a team? Which team needs help?
>> Which bugs could I work on? Where can I retrieve all sorts of
>> information about packages? How can I see who maintains a package
>> and contact them? Links to interesting parts of Debian: Autodeb,
>> Debtags, UDD… etc.
>>
>
> We also have:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/NewbieTasks

I really list this task list, I didn't know about the newcomer tag, this
is a great thing (/me needs to start using it).
The page mention about the project in the pov of the organizers, maybe
it would be nice to have a page in the newcomers pov e.g. a newcomer
won't know what is a tag in BTS (or maybe this page already exists and I
didn't find it?)

>
> And
>
> https://www.debian.org/intro/help
nice, maybe this is the right place to teach newcomers about the BTS tag.

>
> Cheers
>
>> During the lunch we talked about reviewing/writing a newcomer page
>> and this kind of stuff could go in there.
>>
>> I guess we could make that happen by scheduling one 2-hour or two
>> 1-hour collaborative working session(s) over pad or Gobby… Sometime
>> in September?

This would be great.


Regarding the "new to DebConf" sessions, I think it is a great idea to
have something for newcomers, not only for diversity but for the general
public.
I believe it is more suitable for DebCamp or Open Day.
This was discussed during the minidebconf in Brazil (we had some
complains in how to welcome newcomers) and now we have a team role for
that in dc19
https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf19/TeamRoles


Regarding mentorship besides Outreachy, I would like to help on that
(but as I mentioned I am too busy this month, but I hope to start
helping with this soon).

Thanks
Helen

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Laura Arjona Reina-4
Hi

El 11 de agosto de 2018 18:06:01 CEST, Helen Koike <[hidden email]> escribió:

>Hi Ulrike,
>
>Thank you very much for your notes.
>
>Regarding DW/DD:
>
>> It was also explicitly stated that a merge would not mean deprecating
>> Debian Women, per se. It feels as though the major activities is
>> holding the occasional DW Mini DebConf, the DW lunch, and
>> occasionally chatting (or dealing with trolls) on IRC. So, events
>> could easily still have a DW lunch, but could also have a Debian
>> Queer/LGBTQI+ lunch.
>
>I feel that we have too many lists and channels already with low
>traffic, Maybe we could use a single communication channel to
>coordinate
>DW lunch, or Debian Queer/LGBTQI+ lunch, or even newcomers lunch.
>
>On 08/11/2018 08:53 AM, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> El 11 de agosto de 2018 13:32:00 CEST, u <[hidden email]> escribió:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Molly de Blanc:
>>>
>>>> COME JOIN THE OUTREACH TEAM! Please. Please please please. We'll
>>>> be gearing up for submitting our application for the next round
>>>> of Outreachy soon enough (!!!), and having more people involved
>>>> would be
>>> great.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to see DW/DD and the Outreach team collaborate on other
>>>> mentorship initiatives as well.
>>>>
>>>> If people are interested in talking about any of this mentorship
>>> stuff
>>>> in the near term, we can plan some IRC meetings.
>
>I really want to help, but I am too busy this month, but probably next
>month I'll be able to help here.
>
>I would like to help to organize a set of task for volunteers, things
>that I remember:
>
>- Help to automate publishing new rounds to mailing lists
>- Help to organize meetings between the participants / mentors /
>organizers
>- Help to organize an Outreachy sprint (?)
>- Help with fund raising
>- Become a mentor / co-mentor
>- ... (?)
>
>>>
>>> Let's do that.
>>>
>>> I think I would not be able to provide long term mentorship to
>>> anybody because I am too busy with other things. But: I'd happily
>>> be a point of contact for all sorts of questions, like "What do I
>>> need to do in order to $XYZ?" "Who can I talk to about $ABC?" etc.
>>> Or could there be a private mailing list for such questions?
>>> Private so that people dare to ask?
>>>
>>
>> For that, for now, we have the welcome team and its page and
>> subpages:
>>
>> https://wiki.debian.org/Welcome
>>
>> And the irc channel #debian-welcome
>
>Quick help here:
>
>"#debian-welcome: Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and
>verified to join this channel"
>
>I am already identified, how can I do the "verified" part?
>

Your nick has to be registered, and you need to login.

https://www.oftc.net/Services/


>Also, shouldn't the channel be easy for newcomers to join?
>

Yes, and it was until some days ago that we had to turn the channel to +R because of very persistent spam :/

We'll deactivate that when the spam ceases.

Cheers

>>
>> Please join the channel, add yourself to the wiki to let people know
>that you are available and for what:
>> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Welcome
>>
>>
>>> My personal feeling is that we need a list of useful things for
>>> newcomers, and I'd like to (collaboratively) work on that. For
>>> example: How do I use the BTS? Where can I learn more about
>>> packaging? How can I get involved in a team? Which team needs help?
>>> Which bugs could I work on? Where can I retrieve all sorts of
>>> information about packages? How can I see who maintains a package
>>> and contact them? Links to interesting parts of Debian: Autodeb,
>>> Debtags, UDD… etc.
>>>
>>
>> We also have:
>>
>> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/NewbieTasks
>
>I really list this task list, I didn't know about the newcomer tag,
>this
>is a great thing (/me needs to start using it).
>The page mention about the project in the pov of the organizers, maybe
>it would be nice to have a page in the newcomers pov e.g. a newcomer
>won't know what is a tag in BTS (or maybe this page already exists and
>I
>didn't find it?)
>
>>
>> And
>>
>> https://www.debian.org/intro/help
>nice, maybe this is the right place to teach newcomers about the BTS
>tag.
>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>> During the lunch we talked about reviewing/writing a newcomer page
>>> and this kind of stuff could go in there.
>>>
>>> I guess we could make that happen by scheduling one 2-hour or two
>>> 1-hour collaborative working session(s) over pad or Gobby… Sometime
>>> in September?
>
>This would be great.
>
>
>Regarding the "new to DebConf" sessions, I think it is a great idea to
>have something for newcomers, not only for diversity but for the
>general
>public.
>I believe it is more suitable for DebCamp or Open Day.
>This was discussed during the minidebconf in Brazil (we had some
>complains in how to welcome newcomers) and now we have a team role for
>that in dc19
>https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf19/TeamRoles
>
>
>Regarding mentorship besides Outreachy, I would like to help on that
>(but as I mentioned I am too busy this month, but I hope to start
>helping with this soon).
>
>Thanks
>Helen

--
Laura Arjona Reina
https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Sent with K-9 mail

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Helen Koike-3


On 08/11/2018 01:34 PM, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
[...]

>>>
>>> For that, for now, we have the welcome team and its page and
>>> subpages:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.debian.org/Welcome
>>>
>>> And the irc channel #debian-welcome
>>
>> Quick help here:
>>
>> "#debian-welcome: Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and
>> verified to join this channel"
>>
>> I am already identified, how can I do the "verified" part?
>>
>
> Your nick has to be registered, and you need to login.
>
> https://www.oftc.net/Services/

hmm, I am registered already, and identified:

/msg nickserv koike <password>
You are successfully identified as koike

/msg nickserv status koike
2 (online, identified by password)

anyway, I'll check how to solve this with OFTC, I was just wondering if
any other special setting was required to join the channel.

>
>
>> Also, shouldn't the channel be easy for newcomers to join?
>>
>
> Yes, and it was until some days ago that we had to turn the channel to +R because of very persistent spam :/
>
> We'll deactivate that when the spam ceases.

I see, ok

Thanks
Helen

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Paul Wise via nm
In reply to this post by Helen Koike-3
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:06 AM, Helen Koike wrote:

> Quick help here:
>
> "#debian-welcome: Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and
> verified to join this channel"

The NickServ info for your nick says you are not verified.

> I am already identified, how can I do the "verified" part?

I thought this referred to email verification, but the OFTC news says:

As of 2017-03-26, NickServ will require nick verification via
services.oftc.net for the +R user mode. This affects channels using
the +M and +R channel modes.
In other words, make sure to verify your newly registered nickname
using the web interface.

https://www.oftc.net/

It looks like you have to login and solve a Google CAPTCHA:

https://services.oftc.net/

For folks who don't run JS, python3-librecaptcha might be helpful here.

> Also, shouldn't the channel be easy for newcomers to join?

Yes, the recent spam flooding of OFTC and Freenode have caused a lot
of channels to apply +M/+R and similar channel modes to block the
spammers. I guess it might be time to disable that, especially for
#debian-welcome.

https://www.oftc.net/ChannelModes/

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18

Helen Koike-4


On 08/12/2018 12:51 AM, Paul Wise wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:06 AM, Helen Koike wrote:
>
>> Quick help here:
>>
>> "#debian-welcome: Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and
>> verified to join this channel"
>
> The NickServ info for your nick says you are not verified.
>
>> I am already identified, how can I do the "verified" part?
>
> I thought this referred to email verification, but the OFTC news says:
>
> As of 2017-03-26, NickServ will require nick verification via
> services.oftc.net for the +R user mode. This affects channels using
> the +M and +R channel modes.
> In other words, make sure to verify your newly registered nickname
> using the web interface.
>
> https://www.oftc.net/
>
> It looks like you have to login and solve a Google CAPTCHA:
>
> https://services.oftc.net/

That worked, thanks!

>
> For folks who don't run JS, python3-librecaptcha might be helpful here.
>
>> Also, shouldn't the channel be easy for newcomers to join?
>
> Yes, the recent spam flooding of OFTC and Freenode have caused a lot
> of channels to apply +M/+R and similar channel modes to block the
> spammers. I guess it might be time to disable that, especially for
> #debian-welcome.
>
> https://www.oftc.net/ChannelModes/
>

Helen