Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
62 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Benedek Frank
Hi

I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know how to
save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.

I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta Crusoe
600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change it as I
love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much, as I am
just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.

I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to 2.6
kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug, but boot
time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there, I booted KDM
and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a little.

I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE, which
is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather log in
with console and do a "startx" from there.

However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try to
open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to boot
up.

Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
laptop?

Thanks

Bence


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Tom Olson-2
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 06:13:35PM +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know how to
> save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.
>
> I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta Crusoe
> 600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change it as I
> love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much, as I am
> just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.
>
> I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to 2.6
> kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug, but boot
> time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there, I booted KDM
> and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a little.
>
> I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE, which
> is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather log in
> with console and do a "startx" from there.
>
> However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try to
> open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to boot
> up.
>
> Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
> laptop?

Running a lightweight window manager is absolutely a good idea if you
want performance.  I usually like to use openbox, though if you're happy
with XFCE then by all means keep using it.

How married are you to kmail?  A console MUA would help in that case; I
like mutt but there are others.  Some people say they can browse the web
just fine with console browsers most of the time (like the various
lynx/links/elinks programs .  . . I don't do that so I can't really
say).  

How do you use openoffice?  You may be able to avoid using that as well.
There are utilities for converting word documents and the like to other
formats; maybe those would serve.  Also, if you need to write papers or
other documents, there's always LaTeX.  Finally, it's not just your
machine; openoffice is just slow.

Did you compile your own kernel?  If you do so you can often remove
things you don't need and the boot time will improve, I believe.  This
will likely take some research.

You can also turn off services you don't use by editing the contents of
/etc/init.d/.  This will likely improve your boot time quite a bit
depending on what you can do without.  Could someone explain this
further?  I don't really know what I'm doing in this area.

Is your laptop's suspend/resume working?  If so, you can save boot time
by not shutting down.  :-]

Max out your memory if you can.  That improves performance too.

These are most of the things I did with my Dell Latitude, which was a
mighty 333 MHz.  I used it for "everything" until last year when the
screen finally crapped out, and it was certainly more than fast enough.

Hope that helps.

-T


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Benedek Frank
On Tuesday 21 June 2005 19:34, Tom Olson wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 06:13:35PM +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know
> > how to save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.
> >
> > I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta
> > Crusoe 600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change
> > it as I love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much,
> > as I am just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.
> >
> > I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to
> > 2.6 kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug,
> > but boot time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there,
> > I booted KDM and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a
> > little.
> >
> > I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE,
> > which is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather
> > log in with console and do a "startx" from there.
> >
> > However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try
> > to open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to
> > boot up.
> >
> > Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
> > laptop?
>
> Running a lightweight window manager is absolutely a good idea if you
> want performance.  I usually like to use openbox, though if you're happy
> with XFCE then by all means keep using it.

I am pretty happy now, but I am open for other suggestions. I kind of like
having a battery meter, and a volume controll, etc on my desktop. That is why
I settled for XFCE, but if there is a faster one, I am all for it.
>
> How married are you to kmail?  A console MUA would help in that case; I
> like mutt but there are others.  Some people say they can browse the web
> just fine with console browsers most of the time (like the various
> lynx/links/elinks programs .  . . I don't do that so I can't really
> say).
>

Yes, I am kind of married to Kmail. One reason is that I have thousands of
emails, and kmail doesnt have an export feature, so I cannot use my emails in
a new client. And also I would prefer a GUI email client over a console one.
Then I guess there is no help here. I tried Evolution but I couldnt convert
my emails for evolution.

> How do you use openoffice?  You may be able to avoid using that as well.
> There are utilities for converting word documents and the like to other
> formats; maybe those would serve.  Also, if you need to write papers or
> other documents, there's always LaTeX.  Finally, it's not just your
> machine; openoffice is just slow.
>
Yes, it might just be it . I dont use it much, so that would be ok I guess.

> Did you compile your own kernel?  If you do so you can often remove
> things you don't need and the boot time will improve, I believe.  This
> will likely take some research.

Yes I do have a kernel compiled. I needed it for the Transmeta Longrun stuff,
so I did a very thorough kernel compile, meaning that I went one by one and
disabled what I didnt need, and enabled BLuetooth, Sonypi for the camera, and
other things.

>
> You can also turn off services you don't use by editing the contents of
> /etc/init.d/.  This will likely improve your boot time quite a bit
> depending on what you can do without.  Could someone explain this
> further?  I don't really know what I'm doing in this area.
>
\For this I use "rcconf" that does the job somehow, but not very well. It
modifies the things in the "rc2.d" but not in the "rcS.d"

There are several things that I have no idea about, so I would like to post
the contents of that folder here, and if somebody could help me with it, that
would be great.

K02mountvirtfs  S05bootlogd           S30checkfs.sh   S48console-screen.sh
K36discover     S05initrd-tools.sh    S30procps.sh    S50hwclock.sh
K36mountvirtfs  S05keymap.sh          S35mountall.sh  S55bootmisc.sh
K38pppd-dns     S07hdparm             S36udev-mtab    S55urandom
K39dns-clean    S10checkroot.sh       S39ifupdown     S70nviboot
K43portmap      S18hwclockfirst.sh    S40hostname.sh  S70xfree86-common
K45mountnfs.sh  S18ifupdown-clean     S40hotplug      S75sudo
README          S20module-init-tools  S40networking
S04udev         S20modutils           S41hotplug-net

These are the things there. SHould I change something?

> Is your laptop's suspend/resume working?  If so, you can save boot time
> by not shutting down.  :-]
>
Yes I have that running. That is one reason for the self-compiled kernel. But
it isnt perfect, as even when suspended, the display isnt completely shut
down. It makes a little noise, like electrical noise when sleeping. QUite
annoying. WHen I tilt the LCD, I can see there is writing on the screen, but
almost invisible due to the LCD is very dim, but I can see if I concentrate.
SO the LCD seems black, but it isnt off.

> Max out your memory if you can.  That improves performance too.
>

256MB, cant do more than that :(

> These are most of the things I did with my Dell Latitude, which was a
> mighty 333 MHz.  I used it for "everything" until last year when the
> screen finally crapped out, and it was certainly more than fast enough.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> -T
Great you had a working 333MHz laptop, and I am complaining about my 667MHZ
one. Maybe the transmeta that makes it slow. Also my HD is slow I think, even
DMA and such is turned on. This is what I get with everything set.

This is the state it is now:
/dev/hda:
 multcount    =  0 (off)
 IO_support   =  0 (default 16-bit)
 unmaskirq    =  0 (off)
 using_dma    =  1 (on)
 keepsettings =  0 (off)
 readonly     =  0 (off)
 readahead    = 6344 (on)
 geometry     = 38760/16/63, sectors = 39070080, start = 0

ANd the performance under these conditions

/dev/hda:
 Timing cached reads:   364 MB in  2.01 seconds = 181.12 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:   44 MB in  3.07 seconds =  14.31 MB/sec

Thanks again for helping,

Bence


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Juraj Ziegler-2
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 06:13:35PM +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know how to
> save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.
>
> I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta Crusoe
> 600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change it as I
> love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much, as I am
> just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.
>
> I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to 2.6
> kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug, but boot
> time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there, I booted KDM
> and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a little.
>
> I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE, which
> is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather log in
> with console and do a "startx" from there.
>
> However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try to
> open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to boot
> up.
>
> Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
> laptop?
How much memory does your laptop have? I have a PIII/600 MHz (probably a bit
better than the Crusoe) with 192 MiB of RAM. It is perfectly usable for
day-to-day browsing. Only OOo takes some noticeable time to start up and I
have to restart Firefox from time to time to lower it's memory usage.

What I've done is:
* I compiled my own kernel. One benefit is, it tries to load much less modules
than the debian's kernel. I only compiled modules I know I will need

* I took a hard look on /etc/rc2.d/ to see what is being started during boot.
Right now, it looks like this:
$ ls -1 /etc/rc2.d/
K11anacron
S10sysklogd
S11klogd
S14ppp
S18portmap
S20alsa
S20apmd
S20cpudyn
S20dbus-1
S20exim4
S20inetd
S20makedev
S20pcmcia
S20smartmontools
S20ssh
S20wpasupplicant
S20xfs-xtt
S21nfs-common
S25bluez-utils
S89anacron
S89atd
S89cron
S99rmnologin
S99stop-bootlogd

Depending on what you need or not you could further drop ppp (I actually
wonder, why it is there :), portmap, alsa, cpudyn, dbus-1, inetd, pcmcia, ssh,
wpasupplicant, nfs-common, bluez-utils. If you feel adventurous, you can also
try to drop a few scripts from /etc/rcS.d/.

* I have dma and similar stuff turned on during boot:
$ cat /etc/rc.boot/hdd-tune.sh
#!/bin/bash
/sbin/hdparm -X66 -d1 -u1 -m16 -c3 /dev/hda

(don't copy this blindly, make sure your drive supports this).

* to lower memory usage a bit, I only start 2 virtual consoles (on Alt-F1 and
Alt-F2) (see /etc/inittab)

* my APM (i.e. BIOS) managed suspend-to-ram works, so I usually suspend and
resume instead of shutting down and booting again.

* theoretically, you could look into a different init system, which starts
services in parallel (taking dependencies into account).


HTH,
j.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
"We did a risk management review.  We concluded that there was no risk of any
management." -- Dilbert
:wq

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Rodney D. Myers
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:07:42 +0200
Benedek Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, I am kind of married to Kmail. One reason is that I have
> thousands of emails, and kmail doesnt have an export feature, so I
> cannot use my emails in a new client.

Sylpheed-Claws (and I assume Sylpheed) have a script to convert from
kmail to sylpheed-claws

--
Rodney D. Myers <[hidden email]>
Registered Linux User #96112
ICQ#:     AIM#:       YAHOO:
18002350  mailman452  mailman42_5

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
        Ben Franklin - 1759

attachment0 (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Koen Vermeer
On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 12:53 -0700, Rodney D. Myers wrote:
> > Yes, I am kind of married to Kmail. One reason is that I have
> > thousands of emails, and kmail doesnt have an export feature, so I
> > cannot use my emails in a new client.
> Sylpheed-Claws (and I assume Sylpheed) have a script to convert from
> kmail to sylpheed-claws

Alternatively, an IMAP account may come in handy as well. Just put
everything on the server, and import it in the new client.

Koen


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

dbp lists
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On 6/21/05, Benedek Frank <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 June 2005 19:34, Tom Olson wrote:
 
> I am pretty happy now, but I am open for other suggestions. I kind of like
> having a battery meter, and a volume controll, etc on my desktop. That is why
> I settled for XFCE, but if there is a faster one, I am all for it.

I'm using icewm and it is *fast* and functional.   You mentioned
seeing a slow down in performance when going from 2.4 to 2.6 kernel.
This is the opposite of my experience.
I find 2.6 much faster than 2.4.  Strange...

My setup is a 570E thinkpad PIII 500MHz with just 128MB RAM.  

You've got 26(or so) S* entries in your rc.2/ directory.  With that
many start up scripts... booting is going to take a long time.  My
Thinkpad does a great job of suspending, so I don't necessarily have
to reboot all the time.

--
Regards,
dbp

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Benedek Frank
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On Tuesday 21 June 2005 19:44, you wrote:

> Hrm... You should have seen a speed *increase*, if anything.  The first
> thing that I wonder about is if you have a stock kernel or if you
> compiled it yourself?  I'm thinking that you may want to compile it
> optimized to your CPU.  (But if you have, well, nevermind.)  I have a
> PII 400 CPU, and I noticed a definite improvement in the 2.4 - 2.6
> upgrade.
>
> Next, try using "top" to see what all is running.  Use the "M" command
> to sort by memory usage, and see what processes are eating up memory.
> (Look under the "RES" column to see what the actual memory usage is.)
> You may find that there are some packages that you want to disable or
> remove because of the fact that they are running in the background (like
> you've already done with KDE.)

Hi. Can you check to see if I use something really that I shouldnt use at all?

THanks, and the RES column is that shows the "m" after numbers. Maybe stands
for for MB?

22318 root      15   0 43904  32m 5732 S  3.6 13.9  23:48.20 X
 3814 ben       16   0 48816  31m  21m S  0.0 13.3   2:15.27 kmail
 4052 ben       16   0 81496  22m  17m R  0.0  9.5   0:17.64 kopete
 2152 ben       15   0 27776  15m  11m S  0.0  6.5   0:20.47 kmix
30692 ben       15   0 32636  14m  12m S  0.0  6.3   0:22.40 knotify
 4037 ben       15   0 30020  12m 7832 S 24.8  5.3   0:32.65 gnome-terminal
22347 ben       15   0 17792  12m 7272 S  0.0  5.3   1:13.85 xfce-mcs-manage
30686 ben       16   0 26556  11m 9.8m S  0.0  5.0   0:08.34 kded
 3850 ben       16   0 25080  10m 8700 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.20 kio_file
 4140 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.39 kio_pop3
 4142 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.29 kio_pop3
22338 ben       15   0 15556   9m 6716 S  0.0  4.2   1:32.69 xfce4-panel
30684 ben       16   0 24764 9996 8548 S  0.0  4.2   0:02.08 klauncher
30679 ben       17   0 23464 9588 8004 S  0.0  4.0   0:02.13 kdeinit
24336 ben       15   0 24424 8972 5740 S  3.0  3.7   8:43.92 gkrellm
30682 ben       16   0 22788 8792 7716 S  0.0  3.7   0:01.60

>
> The third thing I would recommend is to increase your memory if at all
> possible.  It won't help directly with boot time, but it will help keep
> stuff from swapping out to disk, which will make things faster while you
> are using your machine.
>
Cannot do that unfortunately. I have 256, which is max.

> Last up is a faster HDD -- will help when stuff is swapped out.  When I
> upgraded my HDD I got a noticable speed increase when stuff was swapped
> out.
>
What I did to decrease the systems swapping tendency is I changed this

"cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
to check swappiness. This shows 60 by default. If reduced, the system will use
RAM more and SWAP less. RAM is faster than SWAP. We set it to 10.

sysctl -w vm.swappiness=10

To keep this after reboot, we edit /etc/sysctl.conf and put

vm.swappiness=10"

> FWIW, I have a 400 Mhz PII laptop, with 352 megs of memory and a fast
> HDD.  I run WindowMaker, Evolution, Firefox, and Eclipse at the same
> time and have a reasonably responsive system.
>
> HTH,
> Ian
>
I am hoping to get a good responsive system as well. I hope some speedups may
allow that.

> On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 18:13 +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know
> > how to save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.
> >
> > I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta
> > Crusoe 600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change
> > it as I love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much,
> > as I am just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.
> >
> > I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to
> > 2.6 kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug,
> > but boot time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there,
> > I booted KDM and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a
> > little.
> >
> > I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE,
> > which is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather
> > log in with console and do a "startx" from there.
> >
> > However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try
> > to open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to
> > boot up.
> >
> > Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
> > laptop?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bence


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Tormod Friis Pettersen
In reply to this post by Koen Vermeer
On 6/21/05, Koen Vermeer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 12:53 -0700, Rodney D. Myers wrote:
> > > Yes, I am kind of married to Kmail. One reason is that I have
> > > thousands of emails, and kmail doesnt have an export feature, so I
> > > cannot use my emails in a new client.
> > Sylpheed-Claws (and I assume Sylpheed) have a script to convert from
> > kmail to sylpheed-claws
>
> Alternatively, an IMAP account may come in handy as well. Just put
> everything on the server, and import it in the new client.


Or you could create new "mbox" mail folders in Kmail and move your
mail from the "maildir" folders over. Then you can open them from
Evolution og Thunderbird.

If you would like to use another and lighter WM like fx. Openbox,
which I prefer, you could start a panel with batterystatus and so on
from that one too. Fx. "gnome-panel" or another faster one. But I'm
not sure which is faster of that and XFCE.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Taogypsy
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
Benedek Frank wrote:

>On Tuesday 21 June 2005 19:44, you wrote:
>  
>
>>Hrm... You should have seen a speed *increase*, if anything.  The first
>>thing that I wonder about is if you have a stock kernel or if you
>>compiled it yourself?  I'm thinking that you may want to compile it
>>optimized to your CPU.  (But if you have, well, nevermind.)  I have a
>>PII 400 CPU, and I noticed a definite improvement in the 2.4 - 2.6
>>upgrade.
>>
>>Next, try using "top" to see what all is running.  Use the "M" command
>>to sort by memory usage, and see what processes are eating up memory.
>>(Look under the "RES" column to see what the actual memory usage is.)
>>You may find that there are some packages that you want to disable or
>>remove because of the fact that they are running in the background (like
>>you've already done with KDE.)
>>    
>>
>
>Hi. Can you check to see if I use something really that I shouldnt use at all?
>
>THanks, and the RES column is that shows the "m" after numbers. Maybe stands
>for for MB?
>
>22318 root      15   0 43904  32m 5732 S  3.6 13.9  23:48.20 X
> 3814 ben       16   0 48816  31m  21m S  0.0 13.3   2:15.27 kmail
> 4052 ben       16   0 81496  22m  17m R  0.0  9.5   0:17.64 kopete
> 2152 ben       15   0 27776  15m  11m S  0.0  6.5   0:20.47 kmix
>30692 ben       15   0 32636  14m  12m S  0.0  6.3   0:22.40 knotify
> 4037 ben       15   0 30020  12m 7832 S 24.8  5.3   0:32.65 gnome-terminal
>22347 ben       15   0 17792  12m 7272 S  0.0  5.3   1:13.85 xfce-mcs-manage
>30686 ben       16   0 26556  11m 9.8m S  0.0  5.0   0:08.34 kded
> 3850 ben       16   0 25080  10m 8700 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.20 kio_file
> 4140 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.39 kio_pop3
> 4142 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.29 kio_pop3
>22338 ben       15   0 15556   9m 6716 S  0.0  4.2   1:32.69 xfce4-panel
>30684 ben       16   0 24764 9996 8548 S  0.0  4.2   0:02.08 klauncher
>30679 ben       17   0 23464 9588 8004 S  0.0  4.0   0:02.13 kdeinit
>24336 ben       15   0 24424 8972 5740 S  3.0  3.7   8:43.92 gkrellm
>30682 ben       16   0 22788 8792 7716 S  0.0  3.7   0:01.60
>
>  
>
>>The third thing I would recommend is to increase your memory if at all
>>possible.  It won't help directly with boot time, but it will help keep
>>stuff from swapping out to disk, which will make things faster while you
>>are using your machine.
>>
>>    
>>
>Cannot do that unfortunately. I have 256, which is max.
>
>  
>
>>Last up is a faster HDD -- will help when stuff is swapped out.  When I
>>upgraded my HDD I got a noticable speed increase when stuff was swapped
>>out.
>>
>>    
>>
>What I did to decrease the systems swapping tendency is I changed this
>
>"cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
>to check swappiness. This shows 60 by default. If reduced, the system will use
>RAM more and SWAP less. RAM is faster than SWAP. We set it to 10.
>
>sysctl -w vm.swappiness=10
>
>To keep this after reboot, we edit /etc/sysctl.conf and put
>
>vm.swappiness=10"
>
>  
>
>>FWIW, I have a 400 Mhz PII laptop, with 352 megs of memory and a fast
>>HDD.  I run WindowMaker, Evolution, Firefox, and Eclipse at the same
>>time and have a reasonably responsive system.
>>
>>HTH,
>>Ian
>>
>>    
>>
>I am hoping to get a good responsive system as well. I hope some speedups may
>allow that.
>  
>
>>On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 18:13 +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>I am seeking info from other people who has slow laptops, or just know
>>>how to save memory and CPU usage on a Debian system.
>>>
>>>I am an owner of a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VRX/K laptop, that has a Transmeta
>>>Crusoe 600MHZ CPU, which is very slow in nowdays, but I refuse to change
>>>it as I love it. I have a Centrino DELL laptop, but I dont use that much,
>>>as I am just inlove with this thing, however I need it to be faster.
>>>
>>>I have a 2.6.11 kernel. I saw a major slowdown from when I upgraded to
>>>2.6 kernel, from 2.4. Even disabling Discover, I now only have Hotplug,
>>>but boot time is still around 3 minutes. That is to console. From there,
>>>I booted KDM and KDE, and my full boot time was around 4 minutes and a
>>>little.
>>>
>>>I looked into smaller window managers, but finally I am using now XFCE,
>>>which is ultra fast compare to KDE. I dont use KDM now anymore, I rather
>>>log in with console and do a "startx" from there.
>>>
>>>However, still my boot time is unacceptable. Not even speaking when I try
>>>to open Kmail or Openoffice, and Firefox. They take a loooooooong time to
>>>boot up.
>>>
>>>Anybody has any more suggestions, how to make a speedy but usable Debian
>>>laptop?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Bence
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>  
>
I had a swag of trouble on this Acer 1355LC lappy trying to use KDE.
Love it, but it just doesn't work when connected to the net. There were
no memory or CPU drains, the system just moved like a slug. I googled
and also sent round from some LUG's and no one had a real answer. This
was happening only when I was connected through "pon"

There is only 256 MB with 64 MB memory shared with the video card. It
runs very nicely, but with Icewm, Moz- thunderbird and Moz-firefox and
Xterm and TKdesk.

If you want to see your memory, cpu, etc.., usage install gkrellm and it
is there all the time as you work. Top for anything when you see things
starting to whiptail or something like that.

Hope that helps


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Tim Connors
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Benedek Frank wrote:

> Hi. Can you check to see if I use something really that I shouldnt use at all?
>
> THanks, and the RES column is that shows the "m" after numbers. Maybe stands
> for for MB?

Yes it does.  Also, if you don't already know, the first memory column is
the total memory usage of a program, some of which may be swapped out, the
second memory column is the total currently in core, and the third is the
amount that is shared between programs that use the same set of libraries
(or simply two forked copies of the same program).

> 22318 root      15   0 43904  32m 5732 S  3.6 13.9  23:48.20 X
>  3814 ben       16   0 48816  31m  21m S  0.0 13.3   2:15.27 kmail
>  4052 ben       16   0 81496  22m  17m R  0.0  9.5   0:17.64 kopete
>  2152 ben       15   0 27776  15m  11m S  0.0  6.5   0:20.47 kmix
> 30692 ben       15   0 32636  14m  12m S  0.0  6.3   0:22.40 knotify
>  4037 ben       15   0 30020  12m 7832 S 24.8  5.3   0:32.65 gnome-terminal
> 22347 ben       15   0 17792  12m 7272 S  0.0  5.3   1:13.85 xfce-mcs-manage
> 30686 ben       16   0 26556  11m 9.8m S  0.0  5.0   0:08.34 kded
>  3850 ben       16   0 25080  10m 8700 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.20 kio_file
>  4140 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.39 kio_pop3
>  4142 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3   0:00.29 kio_pop3
> 22338 ben       15   0 15556   9m 6716 S  0.0  4.2   1:32.69 xfce4-panel
> 30684 ben       16   0 24764 9996 8548 S  0.0  4.2   0:02.08 klauncher
> 30679 ben       17   0 23464 9588 8004 S  0.0  4.0   0:02.13 kdeinit
> 24336 ben       15   0 24424 8972 5740 S  3.0  3.7   8:43.92 gkrellm
> 30682 ben       16   0 22788 8792 7716 S  0.0  3.7   0:01.60

Gah!  And this is why you don't use kde.  32-12m=20m (32m in use total, of
which 14m is swapped in, and 12m is able to be shared amongst other
bloated kde apps) just for a mixer?  And if the mixer happens to be the
only kde app you were using (yes this happens - I once ran xwrits to get
me to stop typing too much, and then promptly blew it away when it wanted
to drag in 30m worth of libraries, just to set up a timer and
keyboard/mouse monitor - how fscked is that?), then you can count the full
32m to it.  What does it do?  Emulate emacs whilst brewing the coffee?

Use xterm instead of gnome-terminal:

 1410 tconnors  15   0  4060 4060 2192 S  0.0  0.4   0:44 xterm

Yes, a terminal emulator doesn't *need* 30m just to freaking run.  Yikes!

As much as I hate pine (I'd hate kmail worse), it only needs:
 5065 tconnors  15   0  3736 3736 2272 S  0.2  0.4   0:00 pine

All those other k* programs are just useless helper apps to kde.  Blow kde
away, and that'll free up a bit.


Seriously, get rid of the kde and gnome crap.  You don't need it.  It
won't make your life any happier.  And then you will look at the dribbling
fools who keep on drooling over the eye-candy, and laugh at their constant
need to upgrade to the latest hardware that only makes their room hotter
(and fucks up the environment for the rest of us).  And you won't need to
upgrade your computer, because when it is not running crufty bloated
crapware, it's plenty fast enough.

Oh, and encourage your favourite hacker to emphasise code quality and
optimisation before useless feaping creaturism.

--
TimC
[On being overcaffeinated...] Yes, this is possible - symptons include
the sun being too loud and grokking in full what Adams meant by
"unpleasantly like being drunk".      -- Steed @ ASR


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Koen Vermeer
On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 19:36 +1000, Tim Connors wrote:
> Use xterm instead of gnome-terminal:
>  1410 tconnors  15   0  4060 4060 2192 S  0.0  0.4   0:44 xterm
> Yes, a terminal emulator doesn't *need* 30m just to freaking run.  Yikes!

If memory serves me well, the OP uses xfce. So, instead of running
xterm, he might have a look at the xfce4-terminal package. I assume it
will fit nicely within the desktop, and uses only gtk instead of gnome.

Koen


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Benedek Frank
In reply to this post by Tim Connors
On Wednesday 22 June 2005 11:36, you wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Benedek Frank wrote:
> > Hi. Can you check to see if I use something really that I shouldnt use at
> > all?
> >
> > THanks, and the RES column is that shows the "m" after numbers. Maybe
> > stands for for MB?
>
> Yes it does.  Also, if you don't already know, the first memory column is
> the total memory usage of a program, some of which may be swapped out, the
> second memory column is the total currently in core, and the third is the
> amount that is shared between programs that use the same set of libraries
> (or simply two forked copies of the same program).
>
> > 22318 root      15   0 43904  32m 5732 S  3.6 13.9  23:48.20 X
> >  3814 ben       16   0 48816  31m  21m S  0.0 13.3   2:15.27 kmail
> >  4052 ben       16   0 81496  22m  17m R  0.0  9.5   0:17.64 kopete
> >  2152 ben       15   0 27776  15m  11m S  0.0  6.5   0:20.47 kmix
> > 30692 ben       15   0 32636  14m  12m S  0.0  6.3   0:22.40 knotify
> >  4037 ben       15   0 30020  12m 7832 S 24.8  5.3   0:32.65
> > gnome-terminal 22347 ben       15   0 17792  12m 7272 S  0.0  5.3  
> > 1:13.85 xfce-mcs-manage 30686 ben       16   0 26556  11m 9.8m S  0.0
> > 5.0   0:08.34 kded 3850 ben       16   0 25080  10m 8700 S  0.0  4.3  
> > 0:00.20 kio_file 4140 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3  
> > 0:00.39 kio_pop3 4142 ben       15   0 49728  10m 8696 S  0.0  4.3  
> > 0:00.29 kio_pop3 22338 ben       15   0 15556   9m 6716 S  0.0  4.2  
> > 1:32.69 xfce4-panel 30684 ben       16   0 24764 9996 8548 S  0.0  4.2  
> > 0:02.08 klauncher 30679 ben       17   0 23464 9588 8004 S  0.0  4.0  
> > 0:02.13 kdeinit 24336 ben       15   0 24424 8972 5740 S  3.0  3.7  
> > 8:43.92 gkrellm 30682 ben       16   0 22788 8792 7716 S  0.0  3.7  
> > 0:01.60
>
> Gah!  And this is why you don't use kde.  32-12m=20m (32m in use total, of
> which 14m is swapped in, and 12m is able to be shared amongst other
> bloated kde apps) just for a mixer?  And if the mixer happens to be the
> only kde app you were using (yes this happens - I once ran xwrits to get
> me to stop typing too much, and then promptly blew it away when it wanted
> to drag in 30m worth of libraries, just to set up a timer and
> keyboard/mouse monitor - how fscked is that?), then you can count the full
> 32m to it.  What does it do?  Emulate emacs whilst brewing the coffee?

I have realized that. I blew it away already. I will set up Sonypid which can
enable Volume controlls to speial keys, so I dont need kmix anymore. (I guess
this is how a newbie learns).

>
> Use xterm instead of gnome-terminal:
>
>  1410 tconnors  15   0  4060 4060 2192 S  0.0  0.4   0:44 xterm
>
> Yes, a terminal emulator doesn't *need* 30m just to freaking run.  Yikes!
Good call, I will look into getting a smaller terminal.
>
> As much as I hate pine (I'd hate kmail worse), it only needs:
>  5065 tconnors  15   0  3736 3736 2272 S  0.2  0.4   0:00 pine
>
> All those other k* programs are just useless helper apps to kde.  Blow kde
> away, and that'll free up a bit.

I have realized that. Actually, having the machine rebootet, with KDM and KDE
taken out of auto-start, I got a much prettier picture, and a responsive
system. ALready half-success. When I dont start this kmail prog, I have 140MB
free mem. Yes, more than half of what I have. Firefox eats up 20 or so. I
still have 120 left. At that point, I start Kmail, and slowly, about one
minute it starts, and I will have 20 MB left. So it eats 100MB or RAM. That
is weird. One weird program. It starts all these programs with it

kmail 30MB
knotify 14MB
kded 11MB
kio_pop3 (as many times as many POP3 accounts I have-each uses 10MB)
klauncher 10MB
kdeinit 9.5MB

This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I like a GUI email
client, that has features such as putting emails to the folders I want them
to go (filtering) and has support for more than one POP account. Any takers
on this? Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format?

>
>
> Seriously, get rid of the kde and gnome crap.  You don't need it.  It
> won't make your life any happier.  And then you will look at the dribbling
> fools who keep on drooling over the eye-candy, and laugh at their constant
> need to upgrade to the latest hardware that only makes their room hotter
> (and fucks up the environment for the rest of us).  And you won't need to
> upgrade your computer, because when it is not running crufty bloated
> crapware, it's plenty fast enough.
>
How can I get rid of KDE and Gnome? apt-get uninstall kde gnome ??


> Oh, and encourage your favourite hacker to emphasise code quality and
> optimisation before useless feaping creaturism.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Tim Connors
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Benedek Frank wrote:

> On Wednesday 22 June 2005 11:36, you wrote:
> > All those other k* programs are just useless helper apps to kde.  Blow kde
> > away, and that'll free up a bit.
>
> I have realized that. Actually, having the machine rebootet, with KDM and KDE
> taken out of auto-start, I got a much prettier picture, and a responsive
> system. ALready half-success. When I dont start this kmail prog, I have 140MB
> free mem. Yes, more than half of what I have. Firefox eats up 20 or so. I

Firefox has a hideous memory leak, where is simply does not decrease
memory usage after you close tabs, or move onto new pages.  Seems to be
related to images.  After weeks of uptime, you may find firefox is eating
300M of virtual mem, despite only having one tab open, and to do
*anything* seems to require a sweep through the entire memory set.  So it
thrashes around, and brings everything out of swap, and swaps everything
back in, and does the hokey pokey.  I hate firefox (why does it have to
walk over the entire memory contents just to open a dialog?  Oh, it's that
stupid slow-as-treacle cross platform XUL stuff), and this bug has existed
since day 0, yet no-one bothers about it.  I think it also exists in plain
mozilla.  Yep, there's an ancient bug opened in bugzilla for it, along
with a whole bunch of tweaks that seem only relevant for windows, and
claims and counterclaims that it is fixed.

This is a rare case where the KDE equivalent (konqueror) seems to do a
better job.  But the interface seems crippled, and it seems not nearly as
powerful as mozilla/firefox, and it still pulls in all the kde crap, if I
recall correctly.

> still have 120 left. At that point, I start Kmail, and slowly, about one
> minute it starts, and I will have 20 MB left. So it eats 100MB or RAM. That
> is weird. One weird program. It starts all these programs with it
>
> kmail 30MB
> knotify 14MB
> kded 11MB
> kio_pop3 (as many times as many POP3 accounts I have-each uses 10MB)
> klauncher 10MB
> kdeinit 9.5MB

At least kio_pop3 is the same program just forked, so the extra dozen
kio_pop3 (there's some other process that konq likes to fork off 30
copies of) don't use that much more.

> This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I like a GUI email
> client, that has features such as putting emails to the folders I want them
> to go (filtering) and has support for more than one POP account. Any takers
> on this? Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format?

pine's textmode.  No idea what else to use.

> > Seriously, get rid of the kde and gnome crap.  You don't need it.  It
> > won't make your life any happier.  And then you will look at the dribbling
> > fools who keep on drooling over the eye-candy, and laugh at their constant
> > need to upgrade to the latest hardware that only makes their room hotter
> > (and fucks up the environment for the rest of us).  And you won't need to
> > upgrade your computer, because when it is not running crufty bloated
> > crapware, it's plenty fast enough.
> >
> How can I get rid of KDE and Gnome? apt-get uninstall kde gnome ??

Something like that (`remove', not `uninstall'), but it will only save
diskspace.  To save memory, you merely need to just run another window
manager as you are doing.

--
TimC
Kleeneness is next to Godelness.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

sa9k063
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
Benedek Frank wrote:
> This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I like a GUI email
> client, that has features such as putting emails to the folders I want them
> to go (filtering) and has support for more than one POP account. Any takers
> on this? Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format?

A nice console mail program is mutt which i use whenever i can do
without the gui.
As a mailer with a gui i use mozilla-thunderbird since 0.6 or so, i run
it on linux and macos and love it.

hth,
t


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Koen Vermeer
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 13:01 +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:
> I have realized that. I blew it away already. I will set up Sonypid which can
> enable Volume controlls to speial keys, so I dont need kmix anymore. (I guess
> this is how a newbie learns).

Try installing xfce4-mixer, which, judging by the name, seems to be the
xfce-equivalent of kmix.

You could also use xdm instead of kdm. Try sylpheed instead of kmail.

Note that I don't use any of the suggested programs. I just looked for
xfce/lightweight programs that do approximately the same thing.

> How can I get rid of KDE and Gnome? apt-get uninstall kde gnome ??

I'd be a bit more cautious, because you might end up removing apps that
you still like to use, even if occasionally. You'll have to know what
packages are depending on either gnome or kde. I'm using aptitude, so
I'd start aptitude, remove gnome/kde and look what packages aptitude
wants to remove because of missing dependencies. Try to find
lightweight/XFCE alternatives for those packages, and then remove the
corresponding kde/gnome apps.

Koen


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [hidden email]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Jochen Schulz-3
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
Benedek Frank:
> would be great.
>
> K02mountvirtfs  S05bootlogd           S30checkfs.sh   S48console-screen.sh
> K36discover     S05initrd-tools.sh    S30procps.sh    S50hwclock.sh
> K36mountvirtfs  S05keymap.sh          S35mountall.sh  S55bootmisc.sh
> K38pppd-dns     S07hdparm             S36udev-mtab    S55urandom
     ^^^^^^^^
Do you use ppp on this machine?

> K39dns-clean    S10checkroot.sh       S39ifupdown     S70nviboot
                                                           ^^^^^^^
Do you use nvi (an editor)?

> K43portmap      S18hwclockfirst.sh    S40hostname.sh  S70xfree86-common
     ^^^^^^^
Do you use NFS? Try to get rid of portmap if you can! It is really
annoying and a security risk when exposed to the internet directly.

> /dev/hda:
>  Timing cached reads:   364 MB in  2.01 seconds = 181.12 MB/sec
>  Timing buffered disk reads:   44 MB in  3.07 seconds =  14.31 MB/sec

I don't think you'll get (much) more out of it.

J.
--
I often blame my shortcomings on my upbringing.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Jochen Schulz-3
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank
Benedek Frank:
>
> This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I like a GUI email
> client, that has features such as putting emails to the folders I want them
> to go (filtering) and has support for more than one POP account. Any takers
> on this? Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format?

If you consider pine, try mutt instead. It(self or specialized tools)
can do everything you can imagine and much more. Configuration is a
little hard at the beginning, but your muttrc will evolve over time
anyway so don't try to understand everything at once. You will become
sensitive four your needs and most often you'll find an elegant
solution.

I have used mutt for about four years now and I still learn how it can
make my mail reading simpler and more efficient. And BTW, last year I
have switched from running mutt on my desktop to run it on my home
"server" so I don't have to mess with mail replication when reading from
different hosts (at work, laptop,  desktop...). This machine is an
800MHz box with a VIA Samuel2 CPU (not even remotely comparable with a
Pentium of the same clockspeed). Mutt feels really fast, even over quite
slow network connections. Believe me, it's really worth trying.

To be really fancy, you could even run dovecot (an IMAP server) while
trying out mutt, so you can always change mail clients. Dovecot probably
takes less memory than all those K* libraries.

J.
--
When I am at nightclubs I enjoy looking at other people and assessing
their imagined problems.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Jochen Schulz-3
In reply to this post by Koen Vermeer
Koen Vermeer:
> On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 13:01 +0200, Benedek Frank wrote:
>
> > How can I get rid of KDE and Gnome? apt-get uninstall kde gnome ??

No, but look at their dependencies (and the dependencies'
dependencies...) and try to remove what you don't need. Sound tedious?
-It is.

> I'd be a bit more cautious, because you might end up removing apps that
> you still like to use, even if occasionally. You'll have to know what
> packages are depending on either gnome or kde.

There are none (I think, haven't looked). kde and gnome are just
metapackages depending on everything the developers consider to be part
of Gnome/KDE.

J.
--
In idle moments I remember former lovers with sentimental tenderness.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Debian on Slow laptops. What setup is best?

Robert Waldner
In reply to this post by Benedek Frank

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:01:31 +0200, Benedek Frank writes:
>I have realized that. Actually, having the machine rebootet, with KDM and KDE
>taken out of auto-start, I got a much prettier picture, and a responsive
>system. ALready half-success. When I dont start this kmail prog, I have 140MB
>free mem. Yes, more than half of what I have. Firefox eats up 20 or so. I
>still have 120 left. At that point, I start Kmail, and slowly, about one
>minute it starts, and I will have 20 MB left. So it eats 100MB or RAM. That
>is weird. One weird program. It starts all these programs with it

>This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I like a GUI email
>client, that has features such as putting emails to the folders I want them
>to go (filtering) and has support for more than one POP account. Any takers
>on this? Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format?

fetchmail for getting the mail, procmail for sorting and (ex)mh for
 reading/composing. I have this setup since my workstation was a
 Pentium-1/60 MHz ;)

cheers,
&rw
--
/ Ing. Robert Waldner | Security Engineer |  CoreTec IT-Security  \
\   <[hidden email]>   | T +43 1 503 72 73 | F +43 1 503 72 73 x99 /



attachment0 (196 bytes) Download Attachment
1234