FOSS friendly PDA?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

FOSS friendly PDA?

Richard Owlett-3
I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one
of the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]

It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
It should NOT have cell connectivity.
If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.

When I looked a few years ago there were some open source hardware
projects in the prototype stage but I don't recall any that reached
production.

There was something with similar functionality based on Raspberry Pi but
in ended up much to thick as the touch screen was "top hat" based.

Any suggestions or survey articles I should read.

TIA


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Dan Ritter-4
Richard Owlett wrote:
> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
> transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one of
> the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
>
> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.

You want a PinePhone.

https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

Based on your history, you are now going to tell me that it's
unacceptable, because it's a phone.

Go read about it before you do that.


-dsr-

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Richard Owlett-3
On 02/11/2020 10:24 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
>> transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one of
>> the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
>>
>> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
>> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
>> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
>> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
>> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.
>
> You want a PinePhone.
>
> https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
>
> Based on your history, you are now going to tell me that it's
> unacceptable, because it's a phone.

ROFL
I had said "should NOT have cell connectivity."
It indeed can meet that preference in two ways:
  1. omit SIM card
  2. set switch to disable the cell modem

I can see practical procurement problems.
The site you gave hasn't updated to report on impact of Coronavirus.
There isn't any indication of any U.S. importer - I don't want to have
the hassle of handling any duties or FCC type acceptance of the included
RF components. My commercial operator license expired decades ago and
have no idea what current rigamarole is now.

It does have a nice set of specs.




>
> Go read about it before you do that.
>
>
> -dsr-
>
>
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Gene Heskett-4
On Tuesday 11 February 2020 15:00:51 Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 02/11/2020 10:24 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then
> >> be transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability
> >> of one of the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
> >>
> >> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
> >> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
> >> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
> >> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
> >> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.
> >
> > You want a PinePhone.
> >
> > https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
> >
> > Based on your history, you are now going to tell me that it's
> > unacceptable, because it's a phone.
>
> ROFL
> I had said "should NOT have cell connectivity."
> It indeed can meet that preference in two ways:
>   1. omit SIM card
>   2. set switch to disable the cell modem
>
> I can see practical procurement problems.
> The site you gave hasn't updated to report on impact of Coronavirus.
> There isn't any indication of any U.S. importer - I don't want to have
> the hassle of handling any duties or FCC type acceptance of the
> included RF components. My commercial operator license expired decades
> ago and have no idea what current rigamarole is now.

FWIW Richard, when the Friendly Candy Commish threw us all under the bus
and burned rubber leaving, they also grandfathered existing licenses for
life.

I saw that comeing in the later 60's, which is why my card case also
contains a Journeyman CET card. Cost me 20 bucks to sit for that back
in '72, and has paid for itself several thousand times over since. I
didn't crack a book for the earlier 1st phone in 62, nor for the later
CET.

So If you can find your old ticket, its probably still good. If not ask
the Commish for a duplicate. My last pocket copy says it expires in '88
but I've signed papers for station applications using it till now. And
nobody at the commission has ever fussed about it.

Cheers Richard, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Richard Owlett-3
On 02/11/2020 02:54 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 11 February 2020 15:00:51 Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2020 10:24 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then
>>>> be transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability
>>>> of one of the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
>>>>
>>>> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
>>>> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
>>>> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
>>>> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
>>>> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.
>>>
>>> You want a PinePhone.
>>>
>>> https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
>>>
>>> Based on your history, you are now going to tell me that it's
>>> unacceptable, because it's a phone.
>>
>> ROFL
>> I had said "should NOT have cell connectivity."
>> It indeed can meet that preference in two ways:
>>    1. omit SIM card
>>    2. set switch to disable the cell modem
>>
>> I can see practical procurement problems.
>> The site you gave hasn't updated to report on impact of Coronavirus.
>> There isn't any indication of any U.S. importer - I don't want to have
>> the hassle of handling any duties or FCC type acceptance of the
>> included RF components. My commercial operator license expired decades
>> ago and have no idea what current rigamarole is now.
>
> FWIW Richard, when the Friendly Candy Commish threw us all under the bus
> and burned rubber leaving, they also grandfathered existing licenses for
> life.

I only had a 2nd phone. Took the exam in mid/late 60's and never renewed
it. I was a member of the Cornell student run station which had a full
commercial FM license. With that time frame what's the likelihood I was
grandfathered?

>
> I saw that comeing in the later 60's, which is why my card case also
> contains a Journeyman CET card. Cost me 20 bucks to sit for that back
> in '72, and has paid for itself several thousand times over since. I
> didn't crack a book for the earlier 1st phone in 62, nor for the later
> CET.
>
> So If you can find your old ticket, its probably still good. If not ask
> the Commish for a duplicate. My last pocket copy says it expires in '88
> but I've signed papers for station applications using it till now. And
> nobody at the commission has ever fussed about it.
>
> Cheers Richard, Gene Heskett
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

David Wright-3
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 14:00:51 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 02/11/2020 10:24 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
> > > transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one of
> > > the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
> > >
> > > It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
> > > The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
> > > Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
> > > It should NOT have cell connectivity.
> > > If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.
> >
> > You want a PinePhone.
> >
> > https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
> >
> > Based on your history, you are now going to tell me that it's
> > unacceptable, because it's a phone.
>
> ROFL
> I had said "should NOT have cell connectivity."
> It indeed can meet that preference in two ways:
>  1. omit SIM card
>  2. set switch to disable the cell modem

It might still track you when you omit the SIM card.
You might be able to disconnect the aerial if you open it up.

Cheers,
David.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Dan Ritter-4
David Wright wrote:
> It might still track you when you omit the SIM card.
> You might be able to disconnect the aerial if you open it up.

Ah, you didn't read it either.

The PinePhone has 6 physical killswitches:

     Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
off disables.

    WiFi/BT: On enables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth communication
hardware, off disables.

    Microphone: On enables audio input from on-board microphones
(not 3.5mm jack), off disables.

    Rear camera: On enables the rear camera, off disables.

    Front camera: On enables the front camera, off disables.

    Headphone: On enables audio input and output via the 3.5mm
audio jack, off switches the jack to hardware UART mode.

Just in case you need a serial port, of course.

-dsr-

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Jeremy Nicoll
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020, at 16:09, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
> transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one
> of the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]

You might want to skim through the discussions at

https://www.oesf.org/forum

- which discuss various PDA and similar machines.  

Eg there's lots of Gemini PDAs available ro likely to be because their
manufacturer has brought out a new model - a thing called the
Cosmo Communicator.

They're not cheap, new, but second hand ones might be more
affordable.

My impression is that a lot of these machines although theoretically
able to run linux don't have sufficient developers able to work on
them for all the wrinkles to be fixed.  That is, other OSes may be
bootable but it's strictly "enthusiasts only" territory.


> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).

Why?  Surely all you need is a decent text editor, and a file manager.


> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!

Why?  If you only use the machine to write data to an SD
card, why is the OS a problem?

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

David Wright-3
In reply to this post by Dan Ritter-4
On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 17:32:57 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
> David Wright wrote:
> > It might still track you when you omit the SIM card.
> > You might be able to disconnect the aerial if you open it up.
>
> Ah, you didn't read it either.

I read the panel at the right, but didn't click through to
"learn more about it".

I presume that the ability to make calls is covered by the item
"Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands" (by a process of elimination).
I think my GalaxyY is "quad-band", which allegedly covers the UK and
US, though the latter in untested as I don't have a loose US SIM.
Are there many more bands?

> The PinePhone has 6 physical killswitches:
>
>      Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
> off disables.

Presumably this is what they refer to as the "LTE/GNSS switch".
Obviously I'm meant to know that it kills EG-25G too. Naturally
I've heard of 5G, though I have no idea whether my phones are
2G or 3G. EG and 25G don't seem to fit into this scheme of things.
I guess I have to settle down with a dictionary of acronyms.

>     WiFi/BT: On enables Wi-Fi and Bluetooth communication
> hardware, off disables.
>
>     Microphone: On enables audio input from on-board microphones
> (not 3.5mm jack), off disables.
>
>     Rear camera: On enables the rear camera, off disables.
>
>     Front camera: On enables the front camera, off disables.
>
>     Headphone: On enables audio input and output via the 3.5mm
> audio jack, off switches the jack to hardware UART mode.
>
> Just in case you need a serial port, of course.

Interesting. So sleeve is ground, and Ring/Tip handle RX/TX?
A handy mnemonic there.

My GalaxyY has an FM radio, as does even my Nokia C1-01.
Is this feature completely passé nowadays?

Cheers,
David.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Dan Ritter-4
David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 17:32:57 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
> > David Wright wrote:
> I presume that the ability to make calls is covered by the item
> "Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands" (by a process of elimination).
> I think my GalaxyY is "quad-band", which allegedly covers the UK and
> US, though the latter in untested as I don't have a loose US SIM.
> Are there many more bands?

Sadly, yes.

https://www.frequencycheck.com/countries  might be useful.


> >      Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
> > off disables.
>
> Presumably this is what they refer to as the "LTE/GNSS switch".
> Obviously I'm meant to know that it kills EG-25G too. Naturally
> I've heard of 5G, though I have no idea whether my phones are
> 2G or 3G. EG and 25G don't seem to fit into this scheme of things.
> I guess I have to settle down with a dictionary of acronyms.

There are very few regions of the world where 2G is still used
for data; a few more where it sticks around for voice.

EG? 25G? Those don't make sense to me in the context of
cellphones.

> My GalaxyY has an FM radio, as does even my Nokia C1-01.
> Is this feature completely passé nowadays?

It's usually available in the system-on-chip, and usually turned
off or not connected by the manufacturer. The lower the price of
the phone, the more likely it is to work.

-dsr-

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Tixy-2
On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 10:53 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:

> David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 17:32:57 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > David Wright wrote:
> > I presume that the ability to make calls is covered by the item
> > "Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands" (by a process of
> > elimination).
> > I think my GalaxyY is "quad-band", which allegedly covers the UK
> > and
> > US, though the latter in untested as I don't have a loose US SIM.
> > Are there many more bands?
>
> Sadly, yes.
>
> https://www.frequencycheck.com/countries  might be useful.
>
>
> > >      Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
> > > off disables.
> >
> > Presumably this is what they refer to as the "LTE/GNSS switch".
> > Obviously I'm meant to know that it kills EG-25G too. Naturally
> > I've heard of 5G, though I have no idea whether my phones are
> > 2G or 3G. EG and 25G don't seem to fit into this scheme of things.
> > I guess I have to settle down with a dictionary of acronyms.
>
> There are very few regions of the world where 2G is still used
> for data; a few more where it sticks around for voice.
>
> EG? 25G? Those don't make sense to me in the context of
> cellphones.

Perhaps 'EDGE' a.k.a. 2.5G?

--
Tixy

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Richard Owlett wrote:

> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.

Look at Sailfish OS and community ports. Recently they even adopted official
support for Gemini PDA

https://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Sailfish_OS_Notes
https://jolla-devices.com/gemini-pda/

the license AFAIK is for android emulation, which you do not need.
Also you can disable or remove all packages you do not need - it is a normal
linux and not some proprietary crap.

regards

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by Tixy-2
On Wednesday 12 February 2020 11:09:46 Tixy wrote:

> On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 10:53 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > David Wright wrote:
> > > On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 17:32:57 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > David Wright wrote:
> > >
> > > I presume that the ability to make calls is covered by the item
> > > "Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands" (by a process of
> > > elimination).
> > > I think my GalaxyY is "quad-band", which allegedly covers the UK
> > > and
> > > US, though the latter in untested as I don't have a loose US SIM.
> > > Are there many more bands?
> >
> > Sadly, yes.
> >
> > https://www.frequencycheck.com/countries  might be useful.
> >
> > > >      Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
> > > > off disables.
> > >
> > > Presumably this is what they refer to as the "LTE/GNSS switch".
> > > Obviously I'm meant to know that it kills EG-25G too. Naturally
> > > I've heard of 5G, though I have no idea whether my phones are
> > > 2G or 3G. EG and 25G don't seem to fit into this scheme of things.
> > > I guess I have to settle down with a dictionary of acronyms.
> >
> > There are very few regions of the world where 2G is still used
> > for data; a few more where it sticks around for voice.
> >
> > EG? 25G? Those don't make sense to me in the context of
> > cellphones.
>
> Perhaps 'EDGE' a.k.a. 2.5G?

That would be subject to lots of interference from microwave ovens in
these here parts, they are ay nominally 2450 megahertz and notorious
bleeders.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Tixy-2
On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 12:30 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 12 February 2020 11:09:46 Tixy wrote:
>
> > > EG? 25G? Those don't make sense to me in the context of
> > > cellphones.
> >
> > Perhaps 'EDGE' a.k.a. 2.5G?
>
> That would be subject to lots of interference from microwave ovens in
> these here parts, they are ay nominally 2450 megahertz and notorious
> bleeders.

The G stands for 'Generation' not GHz. 2.5G is a term that got used for
enhancements to 2nd Generation GSM mobile standard (2G).

--
Tixy

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
On 02/12/2020 10:36 AM, deloptes wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> It must use a standard Linux (Debian preferred).
>> The manufacturer should ship with the Linux installed.
>> Android is *UNACCEPTABLE*!
>> It should NOT have cell connectivity.
>> If it has WiFi, I must be able to disable it.
>
> Look at Sailfish OS and community ports. Recently they even adopted official
> support for Gemini PDA
>
> https://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Sailfish_OS_Notes
> https://jolla-devices.com/gemini-pda/
>
> the license AFAIK is for android emulation, which you do not need.
> Also you can disable or remove all packages you do not need - it is a normal
> linux and not some proprietary crap.
>
> regards

It's unclear on
https://store.planetcom.co.uk/collections/popular-items/products/gemini-pda-1

If it currently ships to US (although another page lists price in US
dollars).
I raise the question as https://shop.jolla.com/ explicitly states:

> Sailfish X is currently available in the countries of the European Union, > Norway and Switzerland ("Authorized Countries") and the use of our
website
> and services to purchase Sailfish X outside of the Authorized Countries
> is prohibited.

The Planetcom site states that Debian can be installed. All my systems
are Debian.

I'll have to get back to the sites this evening.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Jeremy Nicoll
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020, at 17:46, Richard Owlett wrote:

> The Planetcom site states that Debian can be installed. All my systems
> are Debian.
>
> I'll have to get back to the sites this evening.

What the Planet website states is, I think, their original intention.  My
impression is that they provided a "loader" but don't themselves do
the necessary Debian development, and there's been less of that than
was expected.

You really do need to find the forums (at I think the OESF place I
mentioned before) and read about what is actually possible, eg
at

https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showforum=194



Also see:

https://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Linux_Flashing_Guide

https://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Debian_Notes
 

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Andrei POPESCU-2
In reply to this post by David Wright-3
On Mi, 12 feb 20, 09:29:03, David Wright wrote:

> On Tue 11 Feb 2020 at 17:32:57 (-0500), Dan Ritter wrote:
>
> > The PinePhone has 6 physical killswitches:
> >
> >      Modem: On enables 2G/3G/4G communication and GNSS hardware,
> > off disables.
>
> Presumably this is what they refer to as the "LTE/GNSS switch".
> Obviously I'm meant to know that it kills EG-25G too. Naturally
> I've heard of 5G, though I have no idea whether my phones are
> 2G or 3G. EG and 25G don't seem to fit into this scheme of things.
> I guess I have to settle down with a dictionary of acronyms.
Not an acronym
https://www.quectel.com/product/eg25g.htm

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Richard Owlett wrote:

> It's unclear on
>
https://store.planetcom.co.uk/collections/popular-items/products/gemini-pda-1

>
> If it currently ships to US (although another page lists price in US
> dollars).
> I raise the question as https://shop.jolla.com/ explicitly states:
>
>> Sailfish X is currently available in the countries of the European Union,
>> > Norway and Switzerland ("Authorized Countries") and the use of our
> website
>> and services to purchase Sailfish X outside of the Authorized Countries
>> is prohibited.

but this is because if you purchase you get Android and it is related to
licensing and support.

If you use the free or community port - who can say no?!

I've tried this and that, but nothing comes even close to what Sailfish
offers.
Sadly they moved away from the MeeGo's debian package management system and
use pkcon now, but I do not think it is that relevant - well you have to
learn this and that when it comes to package management for sure.

for me it is important that there is large developer community, active
support (user community) and very good hardware support.

regards

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Revised description of a FOSS friendly PDA

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On 02/11/2020 10:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I wish to enter/store data while away from home. The data will then be
> transferred to my laptop via a USB cable. [Think the capability of one
> of the old Palm Pilots in a smartphone(sic) form factor]
>


"Palm Pilot" was the not best visualization.
A better image would be the pocket protector full of 3x5 cards a fellow
engineering student used in the early 60's. He had it organized for
quick retrieval of notes on a specific topic.

Everything I wish to do accomplish has a direct analog to how he did things.

An inverse is frequently also true.
E.G. A frequent "must have" feature of a smartphone is a cell modem. The
analog would be my friend viewing someone-else's set of cards.

Many smartphone features are of no value or are detrimental to my
intended use. Prime examples include Android OS and any graphical browser.

What I could envision using would be Debian with a minimal MATE Desktop
and a single custom Tcl/Tk app. The bottom of the screen would have a
4x15 character array emulating a QWERTY keyboard for input of arbitrary
alphanumeric data. Display of "retrieved data" or "data being entered"
would be handled by the Tcl/Tk app.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: FOSS friendly PDA?

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
On 02/13/2020 05:28 AM, deloptes wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> It's unclear on
>>
> https://store.planetcom.co.uk/collections/popular-items/products/gemini-pda-1
>>
>> If it currently ships to US (although another page lists price in US
>> dollars).
>> I raise the question as https://shop.jolla.com/ explicitly states:
>>
>>> Sailfish X is currently available in the countries of the European Union,
>>>> Norway and Switzerland ("Authorized Countries") and the use of our
>> website
>>> and services to purchase Sailfish X outside of the Authorized Countries
>>> is prohibited.
>
> but this is because if you purchase you get Android and it is related to
> licensing and support.
>
> If you use the free or community port - who can say no?!
>
> I've tried this and that, but nothing comes even close to what Sailfish
> offers.
> Sadly they moved away from the MeeGo's debian package management system and
> use pkcon now, but I do not think it is that relevant - well you have to
> learn this and that when it comes to package management for sure.
>
> for me it is important that there is large developer community, active
> support (user community) and very good hardware support.
>
> regards

In the last week I've been to a dozen sites loosely associated with this
thread and some strange conflating.
Last week were had 60's. Same forecast for next week.
Today's wind chill will be in single digits.
I'll start with the sites Jeremy recommended yesterday and adequate
coffee in order to have a coherent view.



12