GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

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GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Jérôme Warnier
Hi,

I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
quicker, ...

I've noticed though some trouble to install several packages which are
already available, but not their dependencies:
# apt-get install -t experimental metacity gnome-terminal gnome-power-manager
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
  gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
  metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
E: Broken packages

I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
Hope it helps.
--
Jérôme Warnier
FLOSS Consultant
http://beeznest.net

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Jérôme Warnier
Also, gnome-media is built with libnautilus-burn3, not the up-to-date
libnautilus-burn4.

[..]
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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Loïc Minier
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
>   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
>   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
> E: Broken packages
> I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
> Hope it helps.

 Probably ultimately missing packages on your architecture, especially
 if it's i386.

 Feel free to bin NMU the missing architectures.

--
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  "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit.  Knowing their weakness,
   I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their
   limit and shutdown."                                -- Zapp Brannigan


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Loïc Minier
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> Also, gnome-media is built with libnautilus-burn3, not the up-to-date
> libnautilus-burn4.

 This is on purpose.  We build with as much from unstable as the
 build-dependencies permit.

--
Loïc Minier <[hidden email]>
  "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit.  Knowing their weakness,
   I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their
   limit and shutdown."                                -- Zapp Brannigan


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Guilherme de S. Pastore-2
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
>   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed

libvte9 (1:0.14.0-1) is only available in experimental.

>   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed

Same here: metacity-common in the required version (1:2.16.2-1) is only
available in experimental.

apt-get is not as smart as it takes to pull these packages from
experimental without you telling it to do so explicitly.

--
Guilherme de S. Pastore
fatalerror


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Guilherme de S. Pastore-2
In reply to this post by Loïc Minier
Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.20 +0100, Loïc Minier ha scritto:

> On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >   gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
> >   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
> >   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
> > E: Broken packages
> > I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
> > Hope it helps.
>
>  Probably ultimately missing packages on your architecture, especially
>  if it's i386.

metacity-common is arch: all, and libvte9 is available on alpha, amd64,
arm, hppa, i386 and m68k - not the case here, I'm afraid.


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Xavier Bestel
On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 08:24 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:

> Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.20 +0100, Loïc Minier ha scritto:
> > On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > >   gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
> > >   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
> > >   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
> > > E: Broken packages
> > > I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
> > > Hope it helps.
> >
> >  Probably ultimately missing packages on your architecture, especially
> >  if it's i386.
>
> metacity-common is arch: all, and libvte9 is available on alpha, amd64,
> arm, hppa, i386 and m68k - not the case here, I'm afraid.

The problem is that it conflicts with libvte4, used by synaptic and
anjuta.

        Xav

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Loïc Minier
On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Xavier Bestel wrote:
> The problem is that it conflicts with libvte4, used by synaptic and
> anjuta.

 Indeed.  Some package inter-dependencies similar to libvte$soname <->
 libvte-common have been relaxed, but for the same major version (e.g.
 gconf2 2.16.0- depends on gconf2-common (>= 2.16), gconf2-common (<<
 2.17)).

--
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  "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit.  Knowing their weakness,
   I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their
   limit and shutdown."                                -- Zapp Brannigan


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Marco Cabizza-2
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
> Hi,
>
> I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
> Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
> two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
> quicker, ...

        Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
gnome-control-center version. It's known to be _really_ buggy ( it's the
worst bug source in 2.16 AFAICS, let alone GTK+ ), and I would like
users to test it and see if it's _THAT_ worse.

        Beware! :)

Ciao
~marco


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Josselin Mouette
Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 01:29 +0100, Marco Cabizza a écrit :

> Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
> > Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
> > two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
> > quicker, ...
>
> Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
> gnome-control-center version.

... as soon as it gets out of NEW ;)

--
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"Do you have any more insane proposals for me?"

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Jérôme Warnier
In reply to this post by Marco Cabizza-2
Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 01:29 +0100, Marco Cabizza a écrit :

> Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
> > Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
> > two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
> > quicker, ...
>
> Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
> gnome-control-center version. It's known to be _really_ buggy ( it's the
> worst bug source in 2.16 AFAICS, let alone GTK+ ), and I would like
> users to test it and see if it's _THAT_ worse.
Please let me know when available (or where to take it from).
I'm particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
right?).

> Beware! :)
>
> Ciao
> ~marco
>
--
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FLOSS Consultant
http://beeznest.net

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Magnus Therning
On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 12:00:56 +0100, Jerome Warnier wrote:

>Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 01:29 +0100, Marco Cabizza a écrit :
>> Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
>> > Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
>> > two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
>> > quicker, ...
>>
>> Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
>> gnome-control-center version. It's known to be _really_ buggy ( it's the
>> worst bug source in 2.16 AFAICS, let alone GTK+ ), and I would like
>> users to test it and see if it's _THAT_ worse.
>Please let me know when available (or where to take it from).  I'm
>particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
>still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
>right?).
Would that mean that there's a real chance of seeing epiphany 2.16
packaged for 386 before Etch?  That would be brilliant :-)

/M

--
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[hidden email]             Jabber: [hidden email]
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Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want censorship
by patent law on written works.

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
On 11/29/06, Jerome Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 01:29 +0100, Marco Cabizza a écrit :
> > Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
> > > Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
> > > two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
> > > quicker, ...
> >
> >       Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
> > gnome-control-center version. It's known to be _really_ buggy ( it's the
> > worst bug source in 2.16 AFAICS, let alone GTK+ ), and I would like
> > users to test it and see if it's _THAT_ worse.
> Please let me know when available (or where to take it from).
> I'm particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
> still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
> right?).

Etch ships with 2.14. Look at this:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2006/11/msg00021.html

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Jérôme Warnier
Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 15:07 +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe a
écrit :

> On 11/29/06, Jerome Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 01:29 +0100, Marco Cabizza a écrit :
> > > Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.04 +0100, Jerome Warnier ha scritto:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm very pleased to see many large parts of GNOME 2.16 already in
> > > > Experimental. The speed improvement is amazing. I upgraded, and on the
> > > > two (quite old) PC I tested it on, everything seems smoother,
> > > > quicker, ...
> > >
> > >       Hi, Jerome, I would especially like you to test the experimental
> > > gnome-control-center version. It's known to be _really_ buggy ( it's the
> > > worst bug source in 2.16 AFAICS, let alone GTK+ ), and I would like
> > > users to test it and see if it's _THAT_ worse.
> > Please let me know when available (or where to take it from).
> > I'm particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
> > still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
> > right?).
>
> Etch ships with 2.14. Look at this:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2006/11/msg00021.html
I know, I know.
But I don't know the delay Stable's release (this time Etch) will get
this time, if it's more than 6 months, GNOME 2.16 may eventually ship
with it. I'm still hoping.
Otherwise, I'll probably think about Sid, or maybe even Ubuntu...

However, keep up the good work, guys.
--
Jérôme Warnier
FLOSS Consultant
http://beeznest.net

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
On 11/29/06, Jerome Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Etch ships with 2.14. Look at this:
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2006/11/msg00021.html
> I know, I know.
> But I don't know the delay Stable's release (this time Etch) will get
> this time, if it's more than 6 months, GNOME 2.16 may eventually ship
> with it. I'm still hoping.

I was also hoping, but the release team is pretty sure that Etch will
be stable before 2007. I, on the other hand, am wondering if RC2 of
debian-installer won't delay the release to January.

> Otherwise, I'll probably think about Sid, or maybe even Ubuntu...

C'mon, stick with Debian :-)
They just might provide backports for 2.16...


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Josselin Mouette
In reply to this post by Jérôme Warnier
Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 12:00 +0100, Jerome Warnier a écrit :
> I'm particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
> still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
> right?).

There is still a lot to do to have GNOME 2.16 mature enough for a stable
release, and I still feel the decision to ship GNOME 2.14 was the right
one. This is in no way an official statement from the GNOME team, but
here is my view of the state of GNOME 2.16.
      * GTK+: I've just received a patch for the most annoying bug
        (missing icons in the file chooser). However I'm afraid the
        filechooser API is still a nest for many other ones.
      * Gnome-VFS: this one was moved to DBUS, which is an important
        change, but I haven't noticed any regressions so far. However,
        to benefit from the improvements nautilus needs to be updated as
        well.
      * Icon themes: the icon naming scheme was entirely switched to
        Tango, but only for the default theme. Which means there is a
        lot to do to have other working icon themes. Help to migrate
        especially Gorilla, Gartoon and Nuvola is welcome.
      * gnome-themes: several themes have been removed without a clean
        upgrade path. This one is probably the matter of a few symbolic
        links.
      * evince: needs more testing. I noticed some issues with djvu
        support, but this may be bearable, or we could deactivate it. It
        also needs libpoppler1 which affects TeX as well.
      * control-center: this one is rumoured to be horribly buggy. I can
        tell at least that the gswitchit code doesn't work *at all*.
        Even given enough delay for the rest of the work (which is
        unlikely), I'm not sure this one (and gnome-session which is
        entangled with it) could make it, and I don't know whether it
        will make it to unstable before 2.18.
      * Many packages depend on either GTK+, gnome-icon-theme, gnome-vfs
        or all of them, this is what is blocking most of them.

--
Josselin Mouette                /\./\

"Do you have any more insane proposals for me?"

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Tim Dijkstra
Op Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:11:45 +0100
schreef Josselin Mouette <[hidden email]>:

>       * evince: needs more testing. I noticed some issues with djvu
>         support, but this may be bearable, or we could deactivate it.
> It also needs libpoppler1 which affects TeX as well.

The evince currently in testing is so buggy, the new one can't be
worse than that... So I don't think evince should be a 2.16-stopper.

Note however I have no clue about the rest of gnome 2.16, so I'm not
advocating for it's release with etch here. (In other words I'll just
crawl back under my rock).

grts Tim


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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Jérôme Warnier
In reply to this post by Josselin Mouette
Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 15:11 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit :

> Le mercredi 29 novembre 2006 à 12:00 +0100, Jerome Warnier a écrit :
> > I'm particularly eager to see GNOME 2.16 released with Etch, if that's
> > still possible after all (officially, we are only a few days ahead,
> > right?).
>
> There is still a lot to do to have GNOME 2.16 mature enough for a stable
> release, and I still feel the decision to ship GNOME 2.14 was the right
> one. This is in no way an official statement from the GNOME team, but
> here is my view of the state of GNOME 2.16.
>       * GTK+: I've just received a patch for the most annoying bug
>         (missing icons in the file chooser). However I'm afraid the
>         filechooser API is still a nest for many other ones.
>       * Gnome-VFS: this one was moved to DBUS, which is an important
>         change, but I haven't noticed any regressions so far. However,
>         to benefit from the improvements nautilus needs to be updated as
>         well.
>       * Icon themes: the icon naming scheme was entirely switched to
>         Tango, but only for the default theme. Which means there is a
>         lot to do to have other working icon themes. Help to migrate
>         especially Gorilla, Gartoon and Nuvola is welcome.
>       * gnome-themes: several themes have been removed without a clean
>         upgrade path. This one is probably the matter of a few symbolic
>         links.
>       * evince: needs more testing. I noticed some issues with djvu
>         support, but this may be bearable, or we could deactivate it. It
>         also needs libpoppler1 which affects TeX as well.
>       * control-center: this one is rumoured to be horribly buggy. I can
>         tell at least that the gswitchit code doesn't work *at all*.
>         Even given enough delay for the rest of the work (which is
>         unlikely), I'm not sure this one (and gnome-session which is
>         entangled with it) could make it, and I don't know whether it
>         will make it to unstable before 2.18.
>       * Many packages depend on either GTK+, gnome-icon-theme, gnome-vfs
>         or all of them, this is what is blocking most of them.

Glad to read all this. Such a summary is really interesting from time to
time to keep people informed.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not insisting to have GNOME 2.16 in Etch at all
prices, but seing the improvements that the current experimental
packages did bring to my machines, it would be great if at all possible,
while still keeping the Debian quality level high.

One more thing: it seems that GNOME 2.18 is building automatically fine
under jhbuild. See http://jhbuild.bxlug.be. (UPDATE: gstreamer seems to
be unfetchable, so its dependencies fail too)

Thanks again.
--
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FLOSS Consultant
http://beeznest.net

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Xavier Bestel
In reply to this post by Xavier Bestel
On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 11:48 +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote:

> On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 08:24 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.20 +0100, Loïc Minier ha scritto:
> > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > >   gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
> > > >   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
> > > >   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
> > > > E: Broken packages
> > > > I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
> > > > Hope it helps.
> > >
> > >  Probably ultimately missing packages on your architecture, especially
> > >  if it's i386.
> >
> > metacity-common is arch: all, and libvte9 is available on alpha, amd64,
> > arm, hppa, i386 and m68k - not the case here, I'm afraid.
>
> The problem is that it conflicts with libvte4, used by synaptic and
> anjuta.

It looks like this is still unresolved. Are there people able to install
gnome from experimental, if yes how ?

Thanks,
        Xav

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Re: GNOME 2.16 in Experimental

Xavier Bestel
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:00 +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote:

> On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 11:48 +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 08:24 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > > Il giorno mar, 28/11/2006 alle 11.20 +0100, Loïc Minier ha scritto:
> > > > On Tue, Nov 28, 2006, Jerome Warnier wrote:
> > > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > > > >   gnome-power-manager: Depends: libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.62) but it is not installable
> > > > >   gnome-terminal: Depends: libvte9 (>= 1:0.13.3) but it is not going to be installed
> > > > >   metacity: Depends: metacity-common (= 1:2.16.2-1) but 1:2.14.5-2 is to be installed
> > > > > E: Broken packages
> > > > > I don't really expect anything, but felt important to let you know.
> > > > > Hope it helps.
> > > >
> > > >  Probably ultimately missing packages on your architecture, especially
> > > >  if it's i386.
> > >
> > > metacity-common is arch: all, and libvte9 is available on alpha, amd64,
> > > arm, hppa, i386 and m68k - not the case here, I'm afraid.
> >
> > The problem is that it conflicts with libvte4, used by synaptic and
> > anjuta.
>
> It looks like this is still unresolved. Are there people able to install
> gnome from experimental, if yes how ?

Would it be possible for people having compiled them themselves to NMU
the packages ?

        Xav


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