Good ARM board for Debian?

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Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
Hi again, all,

Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
this project.  Can anyone recommend other ARM-based boards which run
Wheezy well?

This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't
a factor.  It will mainly be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for
communications.  Other things like graphics, USB ports, etc. are not
important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).

Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
important for development.

I appreciate any recommendations.

TIA
Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Gagnon
The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard, both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for your needs.

http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
http://cubieboard.org/

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On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Jerry Stuckle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi again, all,

Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for this project.  Can anyone recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?

This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't a factor.  It will mainly be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for communications.  Other things like graphics, USB ports, etc. are not important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).

Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is important for development.

I appreciate any recommendations.

TIA
Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Steve Langasek
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 05:22:15PM -0400, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
> The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard,
> both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for
> your needs.

> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
> http://cubieboard.org/

There's no reason to run raspbian on either of these, that would be an
anti-optimization.  Both of these boards use new enough chips to run Debian
armhf.

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Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
[hidden email]                                     [hidden email]

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Jerry Stuckle <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Hi again, all,
> >
> > Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
> > this project.  Can anyone recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy
> > well?
> >
> > This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't a
> > factor.  It will mainly be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for
> > communications.  Other things like graphics, USB ports, etc. are not
> > important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).
> >
> > Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
> > important for development.
> >
> > I appreciate any recommendations.
> >
> > TIA
> > Jerry

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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Lennart Sorensen
In reply to this post by Jerry Gagnon
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 05:22:15PM -0400, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
> The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard,
> both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for
> your needs.
>
> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
> http://cubieboard.org/

How about www.wandboard.org?

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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Lennart Sorensen
In reply to this post by Steve Langasek
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 02:27:17PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 05:22:15PM -0400, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
> > The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard,
> > both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for
> > your needs.
>
> > http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
> > http://cubieboard.org/
>
> There's no reason to run raspbian on either of these, that would be an
> anti-optimization.  Both of these boards use new enough chips to run Debian
> armhf.

The Pi is the only system out there with an ARMv6 CPU it seems, so
there probably won't ever be anything other than the Pi that will ever
run Raspian.

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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Gagnon
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
I don't know anything about that one, sorry.  :(


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Lennart Sorensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 05:22:15PM -0400, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
> The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard,
> both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for
> your needs.
>
> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
> http://cubieboard.org/

How about www.wandboard.org?

--
Len Sorensen



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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Alexander Danilov-4
In reply to this post by Jerry Stuckle-3
On 27.09.2013 01:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> Hi again, all,
>
> Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for this project.  Can anyone
> recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?
>
> This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't a factor.  It will mainly
> be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for communications.  Other things like graphics, USB
> ports, etc. are not important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).
>
> Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is important for development.
>
> I appreciate any recommendations.
>
> TIA
> Jerry
>
>

There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20. It has usb, ethernet, gpio ports. I use it
with they own lcd 10'' for GUI application to control hardware in Debian/Testing. I don't know about
qemu version.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

peter green-2
In reply to this post by Jerry Stuckle-3
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

 >Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
this project.
Knowing what those reasons are would help us to steer you towards a
board that is suitable for your needs.
> Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
> important for development.
While you can run debian wheezy under QEMU the emulated hardware is
highly unlikely to match what you are actually developing for. So
anything involving GPIO, graphics etc will almost certainly have to be
developed/tested on the real hardwhere whichever board you use.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

peter green-2
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> The Pi is the only system out there with an ARMv6 CPU it seems,
The first generation via APC was armv6 and we did have raspbian running
on it but we kind of lost interest due to a combination of via not
caring much (even though they gave us some free boards) and the fact
that the raspberry pi foundation released a 512MB Pi.

Theres also a load of low end smartphones floating arround that are
armv6 iirc.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

peter green-2
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 05:22:15PM -0400, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
>  
>> The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the Cubieboard,
>> both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is good enough for
>> your needs.
>>
>> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
>> http://cubieboard.org/
>>    
>
> How about www.wandboard.org
The wandboard has it's good points and it's bad points.

Firstly the wandboard is made in two parts a carrier board and a
processor board. This could be an advantage in some commercial embedded
applications since you could design a custom carrier board but it does
make the board quite chunky.

The biggest bad point I can think of is that while it has LOADS of GPIO
that GPIO is not easilly accessible to the casual hobbyist. The supplied
carrier board has the GPIO brought out to TINY connectors (they look
like pin header sockets but much much smaller, I dunno what they are
supposed to mate with) and building your own carrier board is going to
be nontrivial.

Also the solo and dual models are IMO fairly expensive for what you get.

On the plus side if you want a quad core board with SATA that is
reasonablly sized, reasonablly priced and readilly available the
wandboard quad looks quite attractive.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
In reply to this post by Jerry Stuckle-3
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Jerry Stuckle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi again, all,
>
> Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for this
> project.  Can anyone recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?
>
> This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't a
> factor.  It will mainly be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for
> communications.  Other things like graphics, USB ports, etc. are not
> important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).

 from the specs you've given then something like an ARM Cortex
M0/M3/M4 would do.  one of the higher-end STM32Fs for example - those
have ethernet and they're amazingly low-power and very cheap.  i got a
waveshare port103R but apparently the 107R has an ethernet MAC.
http://www.wvshare.com/product/Port107V.htm  although, looking around
there's actually an SPI ethernet board
http://www.wvshare.com/product/ENC28J60-Ethernet-Board.htm

 so for $21 you could get the port103r and an extra $10 you get an
SPI-to-Ethernet adapter.

 but no, these won't run debian, but they _do_ have the advantage that
if you were to make this a production item (rather than a one-off)
you'd be looking at postage-stamp-sized PCBs almost.

l.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
In reply to this post by peter green-2
On 9/26/2013 6:23 PM, peter green wrote:

> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>  >Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
> this project.
> Knowing what those reasons are would help us to steer you towards a
> board that is suitable for your needs.
>> Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
>> important for development.
> While you can run debian wheezy under QEMU the emulated hardware is
> highly unlikely to match what you are actually developing for. So
> anything involving GPIO, graphics etc will almost certainly have to be
> developed/tested on the real hardwhere whichever board you use.
>
>

Peter,

Yes, I am well aware of that.  However, we can still develop and compile
the applications under QEMU on a much faster system (even with QEMU's
overhead).  We also don't have to worry about bricking the system and
having to recover; it's a pretty simple matter to mount a QEMU disk on
native Debian and making changes to the load sequence.

And for hardware which isn't emulated, a simple module can feed fake
data to the applications for testing.

P.S. No need to CC: me.  I'm subscribed to the list (and monitor it on
Usenet).

Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
In reply to this post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On 9/26/2013 7:00 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Jerry Stuckle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi again, all,
>>
>> Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for this
>> project.  Can anyone recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?
>>
>> This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed isn't a
>> factor.  It will mainly be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for
>> communications.  Other things like graphics, USB ports, etc. are not
>> important for this project (but their presence doesn't rule the board out).
>
>   from the specs you've given then something like an ARM Cortex
> M0/M3/M4 would do.  one of the higher-end STM32Fs for example - those
> have ethernet and they're amazingly low-power and very cheap.  i got a
> waveshare port103R but apparently the 107R has an ethernet MAC.
> http://www.wvshare.com/product/Port107V.htm  although, looking around
> there's actually an SPI ethernet board
> http://www.wvshare.com/product/ENC28J60-Ethernet-Board.htm
>
>   so for $21 you could get the port103r and an extra $10 you get an
> SPI-to-Ethernet adapter.
>
>   but no, these won't run debian, but they _do_ have the advantage that
> if you were to make this a production item (rather than a one-off)
> you'd be looking at postage-stamp-sized PCBs almost.
>
> l.
>
>

It does look interesting.  However, it also seems to be a bit high
priced for what you get - at least as compared to other options available.

And while size is always a consideration, it doesn't have to be that
small.  They'll have at least two other boards in the same package,
possibly up to five (plus a Power Supply board), so a couple of inches
either way is not all that important.

P.S. No need to CC: me.  I'm subscribed to the list (and monitor it on
Usenet).

Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
In reply to this post by Alexander Danilov-4
On 9/26/2013 5:51 PM, Alexander Danilov wrote:

> On 27.09.2013 01:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Hi again, all,
>>
>> Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
>> this project.  Can anyone
>> recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?
>>
>> This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed
>> isn't a factor.  It will mainly
>> be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for communications.  Other
>> things like graphics, USB
>> ports, etc. are not important for this project (but their presence
>> doesn't rule the board out).
>>
>> Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
>> important for development.
>>
>> I appreciate any recommendations.
>>
>> TIA
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>
> There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20. It has usb,
> ethernet, gpio ports. I use it with they own lcd 10'' for GUI
> application to control hardware in Debian/Testing. I don't know about
> qemu version.
>
>

Alexander,

Thanks - this one looks very promising.  I like the fact it is
completely open source, including board layouts and schematics.  It will
make it much easier for my client to integrate the system, should they
decide to put everything on one board (I don't know what their engineers
are thinking - but I like it, anyway :) ).

I'll have to dig further to see if QEMU will run it, though.

Thanks again,
Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
In reply to this post by Jerry Gagnon
On 9/26/2013 5:22 PM, Jerry Gagnon wrote:
> The two that come to my mind are the BeagleBone Black and the
> Cubieboard, both around the $50 mark.  Both run Raspbian, if that is
> good enough for your needs.
>
> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
> http://cubieboard.org/
>


Jerry,

Yes, these two are also possible.  I had looked at BeagleBoard earlier,
but that was before the BB Black came out.

Both are good boards at a reasonable price.  I'll pass these on to the
engineers, also.

Thanks!

Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Marcin Juszkiewicz-4
In reply to this post by Jerry Stuckle-3
W dniu 27.09.2013 03:28, Jerry Stuckle pisze:
> On 9/26/2013 5:51 PM, Alexander Danilov wrote:

>> There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20.

> Thanks - this one looks very promising.  I like the fact it is
> completely open source, including board layouts and schematics.

IIRC BeagleBone (both white and black) are also provided with
schematics, pcb layouts etc.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
In reply to this post by Jerry Stuckle-3
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:28 AM, Jerry Stuckle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/26/2013 5:51 PM, Alexander Danilov wrote:
>>
>> On 27.09.2013 01:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi again, all,
>>>
>>> Well, it looks like for several reasons the RaspberryPi won't work for
>>> this project.  Can anyone
>>> recommend other ARM-based boards which run Wheezy well?
>>>
>>> This is going to be a used as a monitor/controller, so major speed
>>> isn't a factor.  It will mainly
>>> be using SPI and GPIO ports, plus ethernet for communications.  Other
>>> things like graphics, USB
>>> ports, etc. are not important for this project (but their presence
>>> doesn't rule the board out).
>>>
>>> Also the ability to run their ARM version of Wheezy under QEMU is
>>> important for development.
>>>
>>> I appreciate any recommendations.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20. It has usb,
>> ethernet, gpio ports. I use it with they own lcd 10'' for GUI
>> application to control hardware in Debian/Testing. I don't know about
>> qemu version.
>>
>>
>
> Alexander,
>
> Thanks - this one looks very promising.  I like the fact it is completely
> open source,

 it's not.  they still have not resolved the GPL violations of the
boot0/boot1 bootloader (although the source code of _one_ version of
the early boot0/boot1 code is available, it's not what they've
distributed), nor have they provided the full source code of the exact
configuration that was loaded onto the boards that they've sold
(although they've pointed at *someone else's* source code, they
haven't answered the question).

l.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
In reply to this post by Marcin Juszkiewicz-4
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Marcin Juszkiewicz
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> W dniu 27.09.2013 03:28, Jerry Stuckle pisze:
>> On 9/26/2013 5:51 PM, Alexander Danilov wrote:
>
>>> There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20.
>
>> Thanks - this one looks very promising.  I like the fact it is
>> completely open source, including board layouts and schematics.
>
> IIRC BeagleBone (both white and black) are also provided with
> schematics, pcb layouts etc.

 yes.  olimex do not release pcb layout files.

 although it is early days if your client requires full PCB layouts in
order to absolutely guarantee total vendor independence you might
consider helping get this completed:

 http://www.gplsquared.com/SoM2/SoM2.html

 dr ajith kumar and joe martindale have (apart from getting the PMIC
pad sizes wrong so they have to power it from an external 3.3v supply)
pretty much got this done, with full schematics and PCB files released
under the GPLv3 using KiCAD.

 personally i'm a bit stunned and dead impressed that they managed to
do DDR3 layout *by hand* in KiCAD.

l.


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Jerry Stuckle-3
In reply to this post by Marcin Juszkiewicz-4
On 9/27/2013 3:35 AM, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

> W dniu 27.09.2013 03:28, Jerry Stuckle pisze:
>> On 9/26/2013 5:51 PM, Alexander Danilov wrote:
>
>>> There are olinuxino boards. I start use olinuxino a20.
>
>> Thanks - this one looks very promising.  I like the fact it is
>> completely open source, including board layouts and schematics.
>
> IIRC BeagleBone (both white and black) are also provided with
> schematics, pcb layouts etc.
>
>

That would also be good; I just didn't see it on the site offhand but
will look deeper.

My only purpose here is to give the engineers some recommendations for
boards which will work for them.  As an old electronics guy myself, I
like having the board layouts and schematics, but that's just personal
preference :).  I don't know what they have planned beyond the specs
they've given me :).

Jerry


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Re: Good ARM board for Debian?

Robert Nelson-4
>> IIRC BeagleBone (both white and black) are also provided with
>> schematics, pcb layouts etc.
>>
>>
>
> That would also be good; I just didn't see it on the site offhand but will
> look deeper.

CircuitCo manufacture of the beagleboard.org boards pushes that to
their github account:

https://github.com/CircuitCo?tab=repositories

>
> My only purpose here is to give the engineers some recommendations for
> boards which will work for them.  As an old electronics guy myself, I like
> having the board layouts and schematics, but that's just personal preference
> :).  I don't know what they have planned beyond the specs they've given me
> :).

Regards,

--
Robert Nelson
http://www.rcn-ee.com/


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