Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

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Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

David BERCOT
Hi,

I hope I am on the right list...
I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies problems.
If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs other packages
from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them in
experimental.
Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to install
gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages from the
same source ?

Thank you very much.

David.



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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Luis Mondesi
[NOTE: this is not a flame war email. So, please do not start one]

Hello,

Remember that experimental needs packages from Unstable since this is not a self contained "distribution". That means that if you are adding 'experimental' to your sources.list, you must also add 'unstable' and perhaps even 'testing'.

Now, not to discourage you but, if you search through the list archives you will find that for every new version of Gnome, there is a plethora of problems and the packages for testing/experimentating with gnome are never "public". After much fuzzing and tinkering with this topic, i decided to take matters into my own hands... This was also discourage by the Gnome Pkg maintainers because of other reasons (which i understand. mostly bugs that could arise later when my own packages clash with packages made by them when they are made available).

I don't think any of us have time to either package gnome by ourselves everytime there is a new release of gnome. So, in my case, i just switch to Ubuntu. I keep a Sarge box around just in case, but every other desktop system i own is running Ubuntu. And i'm happy i did: everything just works and I have the latest version of Gnome at my disposal. You can't go wrong.

In short you have two choices (or perhaps three if you count packaging gnome2.12 yourself):
1. wait for the gnome 2.12 packages to go to 'testing' (Etch) (perhaps 2 more years)
2. use the Ubuntu packages (or the Ubuntu "Breezy" distribution)

Number 1 has been the favorite for Debian package maintainers for years. It does work for them, especially for servers. However, some of us think that if upstream releases packages as "stable" they are stable and we are nobody to say they need even more testing. The only thing that might need testing is the way that the debian packages integrate with the rest of the old libraries currently in debian -- or those libraries used by the desktop packages should be updated accordingly as we go along using upstream "stable" sources. [Yes, this is how "unstable" is supposed to work but it never really does. Look at how old some packages are and the debian maintainers refuse publicly to update them. gdm comes to mind... i'm sure there are others]

Cheers,

On 11/10/05, David BERCOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I hope I am on the right list...
I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies problems.
If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs other packages
from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them in
experimental.
Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to install
gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages from the
same source ?

Thank you very much.

David.



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----)(-----
Luis M
System Administrator
Kiskeyix.org

"We think basically you watch television to turn your brain off, and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on" -- Steve Jobs in an interview for MacWorld Magazine 2004-Feb

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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Josselin Mouette
In reply to this post by David BERCOT
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2005 à 09:56 +0100, David BERCOT a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> I hope I am on the right list...
> I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies problems.
> If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs other packages
> from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them in
> experimental.
> Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to install
> gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages from the
> same source ?
This command line should do the trick. What is failing exactly?
--
 .''`.           Josselin Mouette        /\./\
: :' :           [hidden email]
`. `'                        [hidden email]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom

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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Josselin Mouette
In reply to this post by Luis Mondesi
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2005 à 12:55 -0500, Luis M a écrit :
> [NOTE: this is not a flame war email. So, please do not start one]

What is it then?

> Now, not to discourage you but, if you search through the list
> archives you will find that for every new version of Gnome, there is a
> plethora of problems and the packages for testing/experimentating with
> gnome are never "public".

As most readers already know, this is 100% bullshit. The Subversion
repository has always been public, and packages have always been
uploaded to public repositories. This is of course the case for GNOME
2.12 as well.

The truth is, we don't recommend installing these packages to people not
skillful enough to deal with the numerous problems that happen in
experimental. Especially, some soname change in evolution libraries went
unnoticed and it led to serious breakage. Fixed packages are still
awaiting in the NEW queue.
--
 .''`.           Josselin Mouette        /\./\
: :' :           [hidden email]
`. `'                        [hidden email]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom

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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Michael Labowicz
In reply to this post by Luis Mondesi
So to summarize your email... "use Ubuntu" :)

--- Luis M <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [NOTE: this is not a flame war email. So, please do
> not start one]
>
> Hello,
>
> Remember that experimental needs packages from
> Unstable since this is not a
> self contained "distribution". That means that if
> you are adding
> 'experimental' to your sources.list, you must also
> add 'unstable' and
> perhaps even 'testing'.
>
> Now, not to discourage you but, if you search
> through the list archives you
> will find that for every new version of Gnome, there
> is a plethora of
> problems and the packages for
> testing/experimentating with gnome are never
> "public". After much fuzzing and tinkering with this
> topic, i decided to
> take matters into my own hands... This was also
> discourage by the Gnome Pkg
> maintainers because of other reasons (which i
> understand. mostly bugs that
> could arise later when my own packages clash with
> packages made by them when
> they are made available).
>
> I don't think any of us have time to either package
> gnome by ourselves
> everytime there is a new release of gnome. So, in my
> case, i just switch to
> Ubuntu. I keep a Sarge box around just in case, but
> every other desktop
> system i own is running Ubuntu. And i'm happy i did:
> everything just works
> and I have the latest version of Gnome at my
> disposal. You can't go wrong.
>
> In short you have two choices (or perhaps three if
> you count packaging
> gnome2.12 yourself):
> 1. wait for the gnome 2.12 packages to go to
> 'testing' (Etch) (perhaps 2
> more years)
> 2. use the Ubuntu packages (or the Ubuntu "Breezy"
> distribution)
>
> Number 1 has been the favorite for Debian package
> maintainers for years. It
> does work for them, especially for servers. However,
> some of us think that
> if upstream releases packages as "stable" they are
> stable and we are nobody
> to say they need even more testing. The only thing
> that might need testing
> is the way that the debian packages integrate with
> the rest of the old
> libraries currently in debian -- or those libraries
> used by the desktop
> packages should be updated accordingly as we go
> along using upstream
> "stable" sources. [Yes, this is how "unstable" is
> supposed to work but it
> never really does. Look at how old some packages are
> and the debian
> maintainers refuse publicly to update them. gdm
> comes to mind... i'm sure
> there are others]
>
> Cheers,
>
> On 11/10/05, David BERCOT <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I hope I am on the right list...
> > I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some
> dependencies problems.
> > If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome,
> it needs other packages
> > from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not
> search them in
> > experimental.
> > Do you know if there is a command line which says
> to apt to install
> > gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others
> packages from the
> > same source ?
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> >
> > David.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
> [hidden email]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ----)(-----
> Luis M
> System Administrator
> Kiskeyix.org <http://Kiskeyix.org>
>
> "We think basically you watch television to turn
> your brain off, and you
> work on your computer when you want to turn your
> brain on" -- Steve Jobs in
> an interview for MacWorld Magazine 2004-Feb
>
> No .doc:
>
http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.es.html
>


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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

David BERCOT
In reply to this post by Luis Mondesi
> [NOTE: this is not a flame war email. So, please do not start one]

No problemo ;-)

> Hello,
>
> Remember that experimental needs packages from Unstable since this is
> not a self contained "distribution". That means that if you are adding
> 'experimental' to your sources.list, you must also add 'unstable' and
> perhaps even 'testing'.

Of course my sources.list contains testing, unstable and experimental !

> Now, not to discourage you but, if you search through the list
> archives you will find that for every new version of Gnome, there is a
> plethora of problems and the packages for testing/experimentating with
> gnome are never "public". After much fuzzing and tinkering with this
> topic, i decided to take matters into my own hands... This was also
> discourage by the Gnome Pkg maintainers because of other reasons
> (which i understand. mostly bugs that could arise later when my own
> packages clash with packages made by them when they are made
> available).

I consider Gnome 2.12 packages as beta (or alpha ;-)) ones and, if I
have too many problems, I will re-install my pc !!!
I am a MS beta tester for years, so...

> I don't think any of us have time to either package gnome by ourselves
> everytime there is a new release of gnome. So, in my case, i just
> switch to Ubuntu. I keep a Sarge box around just in case, but every
> other desktop system i own is running Ubuntu. And i'm happy i did:
> everything just works and I have the latest version of Gnome at my
> disposal. You can't go wrong.
>
> In short you have two choices (or perhaps three if you count packaging
> gnome2.12 yourself):
> 1. wait for the gnome 2.12 packages to go to 'testing' (Etch) (perhaps
> 2 more years)
> 2. use the Ubuntu packages (or the Ubuntu "Breezy" distribution)

And unstable distribution ? May be less than 2 years, no ?

> Number 1 has been the favorite for Debian package maintainers for
> years. It does work for them, especially for servers. However, some of
> us think that if upstream releases packages as "stable" they are
> stable and we are nobody to say they need even more testing. The only
> thing that might need testing is the way that the debian packages
> integrate with the rest of the old libraries currently in debian -- or
> those libraries used by the desktop packages should be updated
> accordingly as we go along using upstream "stable" sources. [Yes, this
> is how "unstable" is supposed to work but it never really does. Look
> at how old some packages are and the debian maintainers refuse
> publicly to update them. gdm comes to mind... i'm sure there are
> others]
>
> Cheers,

Thank you for your answer...

David.

> On 11/10/05, David BERCOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         Hi,
>        
>         I hope I am on the right list...
>         I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies
>         problems.
>         If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs
>         other packages
>         from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them
>         in
>         experimental.
>         Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to
>         install
>         gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages
>         from the
>         same source ?
>        
>         Thank you very much.
>        
>         David.
>        
>        
>        
>         --
>         To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
>         [hidden email]
>         with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>         [hidden email]
>        
>
>
>
> --
> ----)(-----
> Luis M
> System Administrator
> Kiskeyix.org
>
> "We think basically you watch television to turn your brain off, and
> you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on" --
> Steve Jobs in an interview for MacWorld Magazine 2004-Feb
>
> No .doc: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.es.html



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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

David BERCOT
In reply to this post by Josselin Mouette
> > Hi,
> >
> > I hope I am on the right list...
> > I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies problems.
> > If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs other packages
> > from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them in
> > experimental.
> > Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to install
> > gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages from the
> > same source ?
>
> This command line should do the trick. What is failing exactly?

I thought it was ok too, but...

First of all, I do a :
apt-get install -t experimental gnome -s
Then, it says than gnome-desktop-environment as a version problem.
OK. So, I do a :
apt-get install -t experimental gnome gnome-desktop-environment -s
Then, it is ok for gnome-desktop-environment, but other packages have
the same problem. I would be a big big work to specify all dependencies
in the command line ;-)
Perhaps the problem is only for experimental because I remember I did
such thinks with unstable and it worked...

Thank you.

David.



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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Dave Loftis
I had the same problem using apt-get, and the advice I was given was to use the command:

aptitude -t experimental install ....

And this worked fine.  Think carefully, there is some strange behavior in the current package tree, (or I don't know what I'm doing, also an option).

You've been warned.

-dave

On 11/10/05, David BERCOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,

> >
> > I hope I am on the right list...
> > I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some dependencies problems.
> > If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs other packages
> > from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search them in
> > experimental.
> > Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt to install
> > gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others packages from the
> > same source ?
>
> This command line should do the trick. What is failing exactly?

I thought it was ok too, but...

First of all, I do a :
apt-get install -t experimental gnome -s
Then, it says than gnome-desktop-environment as a version problem.
OK. So, I do a :
apt-get install -t experimental gnome gnome-desktop-environment -s
Then, it is ok for gnome-desktop-environment, but other packages have
the same problem. I would be a big big work to specify all dependencies
in the command line ;-)
Perhaps the problem is only for experimental because I remember I did
such thinks with unstable and it worked...

Thank you.

David.



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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

David BERCOT
> I had the same problem using apt-get, and the advice I was given was
> to use the command:
>
> aptitude -t experimental install ....

Yes, I already had this answer, which is correct, but I'd like to
understand if it is really not possible to do the same thing with
apt-get !!!
If it is the only answer you received, I think it is not ;-)

> And this worked fine.  Think carefully, there is some strange behavior
> in the current package tree, (or I don't know what I'm doing, also an
> option).
>
> You've been warned.
>
> -dave

I know it's dangerous, but I like this ;-)

Thank you.

David.

> On 11/10/05, David BERCOT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         > > Hi,
>         > >
>         > > I hope I am on the right list...
>         > > I'd like to install Gnome 2.12 but I have some
>         dependencies problems.
>         > > If I do : apt-get install -t experimental gnome, it needs
>         other packages
>         > > from experimental but, if I'm right, apt does not search
>         them in
>         > > experimental.
>         > > Do you know if there is a command line which says to apt
>         to install
>         > > gnome from experimental, and, if necessary, others
>         packages from the
>         > > same source ?
>         >
>         > This command line should do the trick. What is failing
>         exactly?
>        
>         I thought it was ok too, but...
>        
>         First of all, I do a :
>         apt-get install -t experimental gnome -s
>         Then, it says than gnome-desktop-environment as a version
>         problem.
>         OK. So, I do a :
>         apt-get install -t experimental gnome
>         gnome-desktop-environment -s
>         Then, it is ok for gnome-desktop-environment, but other
>         packages have
>         the same problem. I would be a big big work to specify all
>         dependencies
>         in the command line ;-)
>         Perhaps the problem is only for experimental because I
>         remember I did
>         such thinks with unstable and it worked...
>        
>         Thank you.
>        
>         David.
>        
>        
>        
>         --
>         To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
>         [hidden email]
>         with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>         [hidden email]
>        
>



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Re: Installing Gnome 2.12 with apt-get...

Damyan Ivanov-2
2005/11/11, David BERCOT <[hidden email]>:
> > I had the same problem using apt-get, and the advice I was given was
> > to use the command:
> >
> > aptitude -t experimental install ....
>
> Yes, I already had this answer, which is correct, but I'd like to
> understand if it is really not possible to do the same thing with
> apt-get !!!

aptitude is more aggressive when satisfying dependencies. Whether this
is a bug in apt-get or a feature, I don't know.
--
dam