Linux nukes my network hardware?

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Linux nukes my network hardware?

Gerard H. Pille
Hello,

a couple of days ago, when booting into Debian, I could not get a
DHCP-offer, so the network was not brought up.

I assigned an address that was not in use via ifconfig, and tried a
couple of pings.

Pinging a system in the same subnet succeeded, but pinging the gateway
failed.

IP: 10.40.0.61
ping 10.40.0.85: OK
ping 10.40.3.254: failed

If one of the other systems in the subnet pings the broken system,
there is 95% packet loss.

I swapped cables, tried other sockets in the wall, that I knew where
OK, but nothing changed.

I booted Win XP, but that was worse, trying to access the network
regularly resulted in reboots.

So I concluded there was a hardware problem, and had the motherboard of
the Dell Optiplex GX270 (with built in Intel 82540EM) replaced.  Booted
Windows and everything was fine.  Yesterday I booted Windows again, all
was still fine so I decided to start Debian again and was immediately
back to the beginning of this message: network down.

I put in a pci-network-card, but the results are the same, whether I
disable the built in NIC or not.

So, something on the motherboard is broken again, or something on the
net doesn't like me to use Linux on that system (the one I'm sending
this from is a Debian system on the same network but with a very up to
date kernel that I configured myself, the broken system uses Debian's
kernel-image-2.6.11-1-686), and locks me out permanently.

Any advice on how to diagnose this?  I'm afraid a lot of imagination or
know-how will be needed.

I have to receive feedback on the original MB, so that I know if there
is any physical damage.

Thanks,

Gerard

PS. The broken system had been running Linux for almost half a year, the
switch to 2.6.11-1 happened a couple of months ago, aptitude was run
almost daily but I find no recent updates related to the network.  When
I put a cable directly from that PC to another, there are no problems
between these two.  Installing a self made 2.6.14 kernel package did not
heal the system.


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Kent West
Gerard H. Pille wrote:

> a couple of days ago, when booting into Debian, I could not get a
> DHCP-offer, so the network was not brought up.
>
> I assigned an address that was not in use via ifconfig, and tried a
> couple of pings.
>
> Pinging a system in the same subnet succeeded, but pinging the gateway
> failed.
>
> IP: 10.40.0.61
> ping 10.40.0.85: OK
> ping 10.40.3.254: failed
>
<snip>

> I put in a pci-network-card, but the results are the same, whether I
> disable the built in NIC or not.
>
> So, something on the motherboard is broken again, or something on the
> net doesn't like me to use Linux on that system (the one I'm sending
> this from is a Debian system on the same network but with a very up to
> date kernel that I configured myself, the broken system uses Debian's
> kernel-image-2.6.11-1-686), and locks me out permanently.

<snip>

> PS. The broken system had been running Linux for almost half a year,
> the switch to 2.6.11-1 happened a couple of months ago, aptitude was
> run almost daily but I find no recent updates related to the network.  
> When I put a cable directly from that PC to another, there are no
> problems between these two.  Installing a self made 2.6.14 kernel
> package did not heal the system.
>

Sounds similar to the problem I was seeing; I fnally gave up on finding
a solution and went back to my previous kernel.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2005/10/msg02530.html

--
Kent


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ghp
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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

ghp
Kent West wrote:
> Gerard H. Pille wrote:
>
> Sounds similar to the problem I was seeing; I fnally gave up on finding
> a solution and went back to my previous kernel.
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2005/10/msg02530.html
>
> --
> Kent

I'll give the previous debian kernel a go, but I don't have a previous
kernel for Windows XP.

;-)

Got feedback about the previous MB: a number of capacitors blown.
Capacitors on the current MB look fine to me.

Linuxing may harm your capacitors?


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Gene Heskett
On Thursday 24 November 2005 07:49, Gerard H. Pille wrote:

>Kent West wrote:
>> Gerard H. Pille wrote:
>>
>> Sounds similar to the problem I was seeing; I fnally gave up on
>> finding a solution and went back to my previous kernel.
>> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2005/10/msg02530.html
>>
>> --
>> Kent
>
>I'll give the previous debian kernel a go, but I don't have a previous
>kernel for Windows XP.
>
>;-)
>
>Got feedback about the previous MB: a number of capacitors blown.
>Capacitors on the current MB look fine to me.
>
>Linuxing may harm your capacitors?

No, certainly not.  But there has sure been a regular pandemic of bad
capacitors plagueing many of the motherboard makers over the last say,
3-4 years.  Seemingly runs in batches.  We've had to replace most of
them on the biostars from about 3-4 years ago for instance.  But the
biostar in this machine is healthy as yet.  Its only about 2 years old,
so that knocking sound you hear is me, knocking on wood..

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
99.36% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Kent West
In reply to this post by ghp
Gerard H. Pille wrote:

>Got feedback about the previous MB: a number of capacitors blown.
>Capacitors on the current MB look fine to me.
>
>Linuxing may harm your capacitors?
>  
>

We're a Dell shop where I work, and over the past couple of years have
had to replace a LOT of Dell mobos because of bad caps; our hardware guy
tells us that this seems to be true for many of Dell's customers lately.
He also tells us that Apple was having similar problem a year or so ago
with their one of their lines (all-in-one flat panel eMacs, maybe?
Mac-on-a-stick? I forget which model.).

--
Kent


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Eduardo Rocha Costa
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:28:06 -0600
Kent West <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gerard H. Pille wrote:
>
> >Got feedback about the previous MB: a number of capacitors blown.
> >Capacitors on the current MB look fine to me.
> >
> >Linuxing may harm your capacitors?
> >  
> >
>
> We're a Dell shop where I work, and over the past couple of years have
> had to replace a LOT of Dell mobos because of bad caps; our hardware guy
> tells us that this seems to be true for many of Dell's customers lately.
> He also tells us that Apple was having similar problem a year or so ago
> with their one of their lines (all-in-one flat panel eMacs, maybe?
> Mac-on-a-stick? I forget which model.).
>

I have seen capacitors leak, by power line over volts (don't know the exact expression) or  changes... Here in my city in Brazil, this is normal to this happen


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

ghp
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett

Gene Heskett wrote:
> No, certainly not.  But there has sure been a regular pandemic of bad
> capacitors plagueing many of the motherboard makers over the last say,
> 3-4 years.  Seemingly runs in batches.  We've had to replace most of
> them on the biostars from about 3-4 years ago for instance.  But the
> biostar in this machine is healthy as yet.  Its only about 2 years old,
> so that knocking sound you hear is me, knocking on wood..

I could have sworn it was the sound of your hand slapping your forehead.


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

ghp
In reply to this post by Eduardo Rocha Costa

Eduardo Rocha Costa wrote:
> I have seen capacitors leak, by power line over volts (don't know the exact expression) or  changes... Here in my city in Brazil, this is normal to this happen
>

But then: why only my system, twice?  Faulty power supply?

And if the capacitors are blown, how come I can communicate between two
PC's with a twisted cable?


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Gene Heskett
In reply to this post by ghp
On Friday 25 November 2005 01:49, Gerard H. Pille wrote:

>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> No, certainly not.  But there has sure been a regular pandemic of bad
>> capacitors plagueing many of the motherboard makers over the last
>> say, 3-4 years.  Seemingly runs in batches.  We've had to replace
>> most of them on the biostars from about 3-4 years ago for instance.
>> But the biostar in this machine is healthy as yet.  Its only about 2
>> years old, so that knocking sound you hear is me, knocking on wood..
>
>I could have sworn it was the sound of your hand slapping your
> forehead.

Chuckle...

Well, I've been called a lot of things in 71 years, including a chip
off the old block, but can't recall ever being called a woodenhead. :)
Besides, I discovered decades ago that hitting oneself in the head
feels so good when you quit.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
99.36% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Paul Johnson
In reply to this post by ghp
Gerard H. Pille wrote:

> Got feedback about the previous MB: a number of capacitors blown.
> Capacitors on the current MB look fine to me.

Unrelated.  See headline from this week.
http://news.com.com/PCs+plagued+by+bad+capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html

> Linuxing may harm your capacitors?

Nope, not in my experience.  I've found the opposite is true, though...
hardware sensative to heat often runs more reliably under Linux than
Windows since Linux uses the HLT instruction whereas Windows spins the CPU
at 100% for the CPU idle process...

--
Paul Johnson
Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [hidden email]
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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Eduardo Rocha Costa
In reply to this post by ghp
Take a look at this: http://www.badcaps.net/faq/
On 24 Nov 2005 23:02:21 -0800
"Gerard H. Pille" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Eduardo Rocha Costa wrote:
> > I have seen capacitors leak, by power line over volts (don't know the exact expression) or  changes... Here in my city in Brazil, this is normal to this happen
> >
>
> But then: why only my system, twice?  Faulty power supply?
>
> And if the capacitors are blown, how come I can communicate between two
> PC's with a twisted cable?
>
>


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Joseph H. Fry
In reply to this post by Gerard H. Pille
On Thursday 24 November 2005 2:01 am, Gerard H. Pille wrote:

> Hello,
>
> a couple of days ago, when booting into Debian, I could not get a
> DHCP-offer, so the network was not brought up.
>
> I assigned an address that was not in use via ifconfig, and tried a
> couple of pings.
>
> Pinging a system in the same subnet succeeded, but pinging the gateway
> failed.
>
> IP: 10.40.0.61
> ping 10.40.0.85: OK
> ping 10.40.3.254: failed
>
> If one of the other systems in the subnet pings the broken system,
> there is 95% packet loss.
>
> I swapped cables, tried other sockets in the wall, that I knew where
> OK, but nothing changed.
>
> I booted Win XP, but that was worse, trying to access the network
> regularly resulted in reboots.
>
> So I concluded there was a hardware problem, and had the motherboard of
> the Dell Optiplex GX270 (with built in Intel 82540EM) replaced.  Booted
> Windows and everything was fine.  Yesterday I booted Windows again, all
> was still fine so I decided to start Debian again and was immediately
> back to the beginning of this message: network down.
>
> I put in a pci-network-card, but the results are the same, whether I
> disable the built in NIC or not.
>
> So, something on the motherboard is broken again, or something on the
> net doesn't like me to use Linux on that system (the one I'm sending
> this from is a Debian system on the same network but with a very up to
> date kernel that I configured myself, the broken system uses Debian's
> kernel-image-2.6.11-1-686), and locks me out permanently.
>
> Any advice on how to diagnose this?  I'm afraid a lot of imagination or
> know-how will be needed.
>
> I have to receive feedback on the original MB, so that I know if there
> is any physical damage.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gerard
>
> PS. The broken system had been running Linux for almost half a year, the
> switch to 2.6.11-1 happened a couple of months ago, aptitude was run
> almost daily but I find no recent updates related to the network.  When
> I put a cable directly from that PC to another, there are no problems
> between these two.  Installing a self made 2.6.14 kernel package did not
> heal the system.

Perhaps your problem is the switch/hub your plugging into... or maybe your NIC
is autodetecting the wrong speed and/or duplex mode.

Joe


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Re: Linux nukes my network hardware?

Hornet-2
In reply to this post by Gerard H. Pille
On 11/24/05, Gerard H. Pille <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> a couple of days ago, when booting into Debian, I could not get a
> DHCP-offer, so the network was not brought up.
>
> I assigned an address that was not in use via ifconfig, and tried a
> couple of pings.
>
> Pinging a system in the same subnet succeeded, but pinging the gateway
> failed.
>
> IP: 10.40.0.61
> ping 10.40.0.85: OK
> ping 10.40.3.254: failed
>
> If one of the other systems in the subnet pings the broken system,
> there is 95% packet loss.
>
> I swapped cables, tried other sockets in the wall, that I knew where
> OK, but nothing changed.
>
> I booted Win XP, but that was worse, trying to access the network
> regularly resulted in reboots.
>
> So I concluded there was a hardware problem, and had the motherboard of
> the Dell Optiplex GX270 (with built in Intel 82540EM) replaced.  Booted
> Windows and everything was fine.  Yesterday I booted Windows again, all
> was still fine so I decided to start Debian again and was immediately
> back to the beginning of this message: network down.
>
> I put in a pci-network-card, but the results are the same, whether I
> disable the built in NIC or not.
>
> So, something on the motherboard is broken again, or something on the
> net doesn't like me to use Linux on that system (the one I'm sending
> this from is a Debian system on the same network but with a very up to
> date kernel that I configured myself, the broken system uses Debian's
> kernel-image-2.6.11-1-686), and locks me out permanently.
>
> Any advice on how to diagnose this?  I'm afraid a lot of imagination or
> know-how will be needed.
>
> I have to receive feedback on the original MB, so that I know if there
> is any physical damage.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gerard
>
> PS. The broken system had been running Linux for almost half a year, the
> switch to 2.6.11-1 happened a couple of months ago, aptitude was run
> almost daily but I find no recent updates related to the network.  When
> I put a cable directly from that PC to another, there are no problems
> between these two.  Installing a self made 2.6.14 kernel package did not
> heal the system.
>
>
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> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [hidden email]
>
>


A friend of mine had a similar issue a while ago. It came down to the
power cord that the PC was using. I know it shocked me also and was
the last thing from my mind, but me plugged in the old cord and the
packet loss started back in again. I think he had even replaced the
power supply, but never the cord.
--

-Erik-