Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

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Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Adam C Powell IV
Greetings,

My latest testing dist-upgrade on Sunday proved a disaster: X crashed
once, then locked up the display though I could get in via ssh;
rebooted, but this repeated several times.  No point in filing a bug, as
it's likely due to the X transition...

So I upgraded to unstable.  The X crash is gone, and nearly everything
works!  *whew*  But GnuCash has no text -- where there should be a
string, there is either nothing, or for a menu header, a single dot.
Yesterday John Goerzen filed bug 365636 against gnucash, but in his case
it failed to start at all...

In addition, E16 window title bars have no text, nor do E's cloud
tooltips or background menus, though minimized window icons do.

Is this a known issue in unstable?  Haven't seen anything on this
list...  Not sure where to file bugs...

Thanks,

-Adam
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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Florian Ludwig
Adam C Powell IV wrote:
> Greetings,
>
>  
I think you address this email to the wrong mailling list. This
development list is about gnome.
> In addition, E16 window title bars have no text, nor do E's cloud
> tooltips or background menus, though minimized window icons do.
>  
sorry,.. I'm not familiar with enlightment - i'm using gnome.
> Is this a known issue in unstable?  Haven't seen anything on this
> list...  Not sure where to file bugs...
>  
try to install the package 'reportbug'. Its a simple console program
with it you can with known bugs and fill new bug reports.
> Thanks,
>
> -Adam
>  

greetings,
Florian Ludwig


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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Michel Dänzer-3
In reply to this post by Adam C Powell IV
On Tue, 2006-05-02 at 19:21 -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
>
> My latest testing dist-upgrade on Sunday proved a disaster: X crashed
> once, then locked up the display though I could get in via ssh;
> rebooted, but this repeated several times.  No point in filing a bug, as
> it's likely due to the X transition...

Might still be useful to prevent similar problems in the future.


> So I upgraded to unstable.  The X crash is gone, and nearly everything
> works!  *whew*  But GnuCash has no text -- where there should be a
> string, there is either nothing, or for a menu header, a single dot.
> Yesterday John Goerzen filed bug 365636 against gnucash, but in his case
> it failed to start at all...
>
> In addition, E16 window title bars have no text, nor do E's cloud
> tooltips or background menus, though minimized window icons do.

Sounds like your server-side X font setup is busted. I'd start by
checking the font paths in the X (font) server.


All of this is more likely related to X than GNOME...

--
Earthling Michel Dänzer           |          http://tungstengraphics.com
Libre software enthusiast         |          Debian, X and DRI developer

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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Drew Parsons
In reply to this post by Adam C Powell IV

> But GnuCash has no text -- where there should be a
> string, there is either nothing, or for a menu header, a single dot.

For what it's worth, gnucash is running fine for me. v1.8.12-8.  I wish
they'd hurry up and upgrade to gtk2.

Michel's idea of font paths seems a fair guess.  I let X completely
create a new config file by deleting xorg.conf and running
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg.  I suspect that might have helped avert
grief I might otherwise have experienced.

Drew


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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Rasmus Toftdahl Olesen
In reply to this post by Michel Dänzer-3
ons, 03 05 2006 kl. 10:05 +0200, skrev Michel Dänzer:

> > So I upgraded to unstable.  The X crash is gone, and nearly everything
> > works!  *whew*  But GnuCash has no text -- where there should be a
> > string, there is either nothing, or for a menu header, a single dot.
> > Yesterday John Goerzen filed bug 365636 against gnucash, but in his case
> > it failed to start at all...
> >
> > In addition, E16 window title bars have no text, nor do E's cloud
> > tooltips or background menus, though minimized window icons do.
>
> Sounds like your server-side X font setup is busted. I'd start by
> checking the font paths in the X (font) server.
>
>
> All of this is more likely related to X than GNOME...
My fonts also disapeared when i switched to the new X, and if the config
scripts detect that the configuration has already been changed by you
(or maybe some other script), it won't change it.

You can either move your own conf to somewhere else and dpkg-reconfigure
xserver-xorg (i think), or set the following FontPath(s):

Section "Files"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi"
        # path to defoma fonts
        FontPath      "/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"
EndSection

--
Rasmus Toftdahl Olesen <[hidden email]>
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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Adam C Powell IV
On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 23:23 +0200, Rasmus Toftdahl Olesen wrote:

> ons, 03 05 2006 kl. 10:05 +0200, skrev Michel Dänzer:
> > > So I upgraded to unstable.  The X crash is gone, and nearly everything
> > > works!  *whew*  But GnuCash has no text -- where there should be a
> > > string, there is either nothing, or for a menu header, a single dot.
> > > Yesterday John Goerzen filed bug 365636 against gnucash, but in his case
> > > it failed to start at all...
> > >
> > > In addition, E16 window title bars have no text, nor do E's cloud
> > > tooltips or background menus, though minimized window icons do.
> >
> > Sounds like your server-side X font setup is busted. I'd start by
> > checking the font paths in the X (font) server.
> >
> >
> > All of this is more likely related to X than GNOME...
> My fonts also disapeared when i switched to the new X, and if the config
> scripts detect that the configuration has already been changed by you
> (or maybe some other script), it won't change it.
>
> You can either move your own conf to somewhere else and dpkg-reconfigure
> xserver-xorg (i think), or set the following FontPath(s):
>
> Section "Files"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi"
>         FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi"
>         # path to defoma fonts
>         FontPath      "/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"
> EndSection

Thanks.  I tried the dpkg-reconfigure, to no avail.  Here's how it set
my font info:

Section "Files"
        FontPath        "unix/:7100"                    # local font server
        # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/CID"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/CID"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi"
        FontPath        "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
EndSection

It's missing a couple of lines you mentioned, but seems to be relying on
the font server, but I don't see it running in ps...

Thanks,
-Adam
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Welcome to the best software in the world today cafe!
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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Adam C Powell IV
In reply to this post by Michel Dänzer-3
On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 10:05 +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-05-02 at 19:21 -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
> >
> > My latest testing dist-upgrade on Sunday proved a disaster: X crashed
> > once, then locked up the display though I could get in via ssh;
> > rebooted, but this repeated several times.  No point in filing a bug, as
> > it's likely due to the X transition...
>
> Might still be useful to prevent similar problems in the future.

Okay, because gnucash doesn't work on the unstable box, I've recently
put a little time into getting the etch box working.  If I do a failsafe
xterm session, I can start E and gnome-panel, just fine.  But there's no
icon theme, the gtk+ theme is wrong, and the keyboard layout is not the
dvorak one I like (though of course I can xmodmap it).

So I tried starting E, then gnome-settings-daemon, then when I run
gnome-panel, bam!  X crash, framebuffer problems, and kernel panic on
warm reboot.

Does this give any hints on what might be wrong in etch?  Where do I
file the bugs?  I don't think this has anything to do with E...

FWIW, a friend here at MIT has switched to KDE, and the family of a
colleague at Northeastern is considering dropping GNU/Linux entirely
(much to my colleague's chagrin) because of the breakage in this
transition.  Next time we upgrade, can we please stage it through
experimental, like the very smooth 2.6 and 2.8 transitions?  This
piecemeal approach has caused a ton of problems, and yes testing and
unstable have those names for a reason, but avoiding preventable
breakage would be most welcome.

Thanks,
-Adam
--
GPG fingerprint: D54D 1AEE B11C CE9B A02B  C5DD 526F 01E8 564E E4B6

Welcome to the best software in the world today cafe!
http://www.take6.com/albums/greatesthits.html

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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Gabor Gombas
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 09:22:10AM -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:

> So I tried starting E, then gnome-settings-daemon, then when I run
> gnome-panel, bam!  X crash, framebuffer problems, and kernel panic on
> warm reboot.

I'm not sure I understand correctly. If the kernel paniced _after_ the
reboot, that may be caused by your BIOS not initializing some device
correctly.

If the kernel paniced _before_ the reboot, then it's likely a DRM driver
issue so you should report the panic to the kernel guys. Well, you
should report the panic _anyway_, but in this case there is a greater
chance for a fix.

> FWIW, a friend here at MIT has switched to KDE, and the family of a
> colleague at Northeastern is considering dropping GNU/Linux entirely
> (much to my colleague's chagrin) because of the breakage in this
> transition.  Next time we upgrade, can we please stage it through
> experimental, like the very smooth 2.6 and 2.8 transitions?  This
> piecemeal approach has caused a ton of problems, and yes testing and
> unstable have those names for a reason, but avoiding preventable
> breakage would be most welcome.

I'm tracking unstable almost daily on both an i386 and an amd64 machine
and I did not have any serious issues with the X transition (and I've
switched to Xorg 7 while it was still in experimental on i386). Btw., I
don't consider editing a couple of config. files after an upgrade an
"issue"; that's part of the normal sysadmin tasks.

I'm also using E and never had any issues with it for many years now.

If you're using testing or unstable you should never ever just blindly
do an upgrade (much less a dist-upgrade). You should _ALWAYS_ examine
what packages are going to be changed, read their changelog, examine
what packages are going to be held back and why. Look at any packages
that are important for you twice. If you're not sure about a package,
then do not upgrade that package. Checking the relevant Debian mailing
lists for potential problems _before_ the upgrade also helps a lot.

You should also be aware that due to the rules of testing, sometimes
testing can be more broken than unstable. Don't beleive the names.

With these simple rules you can minimize unpleasant surprises greatly.

Gabor

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                Hungarian Academy of Sciences
     ---------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Massive testing breakage; unstable: no text in GnuCash or E16

Adam C Powell IV
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 17:10 +0200, Gabor Gombas wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 09:22:10AM -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
>
> > So I tried starting E, then gnome-settings-daemon, then when I run
> > gnome-panel, bam!  X crash, framebuffer problems, and kernel panic on
> > warm reboot.
>
> I'm not sure I understand correctly. If the kernel paniced _after_ the
> reboot, that may be caused by your BIOS not initializing some device
> correctly.

Right, sorry if I was unclear, the panic happened after the reboot.
This is a BIOS issue for sure, but has only happened on this machine
since upgrading to 2.6.15 (and now 2.6.16), so something new in the
kernel is tickling the BIOS bug.  Not hoping for resolution on this
list, just trying to indicate the depths of brokenness of the stack in
etch.

> > FWIW, a friend here at MIT has switched to KDE, and the family of a
> > colleague at Northeastern is considering dropping GNU/Linux entirely
> > (much to my colleague's chagrin) because of the breakage in this
> > transition.  Next time we upgrade, can we please stage it through
> > experimental, like the very smooth 2.6 and 2.8 transitions?  This
> > piecemeal approach has caused a ton of problems, and yes testing and
> > unstable have those names for a reason, but avoiding preventable
> > breakage would be most welcome.
>
> I'm tracking unstable almost daily on both an i386 and an amd64 machine
> and I did not have any serious issues with the X transition (and I've
> switched to Xorg 7 while it was still in experimental on i386). Btw., I
> don't consider editing a couple of config. files after an upgrade an
> "issue"; that's part of the normal sysadmin tasks.

Editing config files?  Not sure where you saw that in this thread.  So
you didn't have problems with the sudden disappearance of .la files in
libxcursor and libxrender?  You can run gnucash in unstable?  Pray tell.

> I'm also using E and never had any issues with it for many years now.
>
> If you're using testing or unstable you should never ever just blindly
> do an upgrade (much less a dist-upgrade). You should _ALWAYS_ examine
> what packages are going to be changed, read their changelog, examine
> what packages are going to be held back and why. Look at any packages
> that are important for you twice. If you're not sure about a package,
> then do not upgrade that package. Checking the relevant Debian mailing
> lists for potential problems _before_ the upgrade also helps a lot.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, or perhaps preaching to the
choir.  I was the only one who reported this to the mailing lists.  And
if the changelogs had "CAREFUL!  This upgrade will break existing
gnome-panel, and interacts badly with X -- which in turn is tickling
kernel bugs!" then I clearly would have avoided it. :-)

> You should also be aware that due to the rules of testing, sometimes
> testing can be more broken than unstable. Don't beleive the names.
>
> With these simple rules you can minimize unpleasant surprises greatly.

Indeed.  Unfortunately I only learned of my colleague's family upgrade
from sarge to etch after the fact, and said, "That was not smart". :-(
My research group remains on sarge for this reason, I only upgraded my
own machines in a desperate search for a fix to GNOME bug 320249, which
I reported...

Cheers,
-Adam
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