Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

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Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Martin Steigerwald
Hi!

Is there such a thing available in Debian?

Kopete 17.08 does not do it.

PSI is said to have OMEMO, but does not appear to have it in Debian.


Only working (!) XMPP client I found in Debian so far is: dino.im which
is GTK based.

Gajim is supposed to be working, but gives a Python traceback on
activating OMEMO. Its also GTK based.

Apparently there more than a dozen XMPP clients for Linux, but none of
them works as nicely as Conversations.im on Android for far.

Pidgin also does not do it.


One thing to try still would be KDE Telepathy, as I read somewhere it
would do OMEMO. But it appears to be similarly outdated as Kopete.

Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.


There are in part contradicting informations on which client can do it
or not:

https://omemo.top/

versus

https://riseup.net/de/chat/clients

for example.

Thanks,
--
Martin


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Re: Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Martin Steigerwald
Martin Steigerwald - 29.07.19, 22:53:59 CEST:
> Is there such a thing available in Debian?
>
> Kopete 17.08 does not do it.
>
> PSI is said to have OMEMO, but does not appear to have it in Debian.

I now also tried psi-plus. And found I missed two things before:

There is a OMEMO plugin and I can activate.

Messages send are still not encrypted as I can see in dino.im

There is supposed to be a OMEMO plugin symbol in toolbar in chat window
but there is not, even tough it is supposed to be there according to
settings window.

I leave it at that for today.

dino.im works out of the box.
 

> Only working (!) XMPP client I found in Debian so far is: dino.im
> which is GTK based.
>
> Gajim is supposed to be working, but gives a Python traceback on
> activating OMEMO. Its also GTK based.
>
> Apparently there more than a dozen XMPP clients for Linux, but none of
> them works as nicely as Conversations.im on Android for far.
>
> Pidgin also does not do it.
>
>
> One thing to try still would be KDE Telepathy, as I read somewhere it
> would do OMEMO. But it appears to be similarly outdated as Kopete.
>
> Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.
>
>
> There are in part contradicting informations on which client can do it
> or not:
>
> https://omemo.top/
>
> versus
>
> https://riseup.net/de/chat/clients
>
> for example.
>
> Thanks,


--
Martin


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Re: Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Boris Pek-5
Hi Martin,

>>  Is there such a thing available in Debian?

You may ask XMPP related questions in Debian XMPP Maintainers team
mailing list: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/pkg-xmpp

>>  Kopete 17.08 does not do it.

Yes, IIRC Kopete has support only for GnuPG and OTR.

>>  PSI is said to have OMEMO, but does not appear to have it in Debian.

Yes, unfortunately psi package in Debian is outdated and psi-plugins package
is not in official repos yet. This is in my TODO list, but progress is slow...

> I now also tried psi-plus. And found I missed two things before:
>
> There is a OMEMO plugin and I can activate.
>
> Messages send are still not encrypted as I can see in dino.im
>
> There is supposed to be a OMEMO plugin symbol in toolbar in chat window
> but there is not, even tough it is supposed to be there according to
> settings window.
>
> I leave it at that for today.

Current version of Psi+ OMEMO plugin in Debian supports all necessary features:
* e2e encryption in private chats
* e2e encryption in group chats (all members of group chats should have enabled
  OMEMO plugins in their XMPP clients)
* e2e encryption of files uploaded to XMPP server using HTTP Upload Plugin
* etc.

It is comprehensive tested with Gajim and Conversations.

Please check:

1) Have you tried to restart application after enabling of OMEMO plugin?
2) Do you have OMEMO buttons on toolbars in chat windows? If not you
   may enable them in Psi+ Options dialog in Toolbars section.
3) In some rare cases you may face with broken databases.
   Try to remove files:
   ~/.local/share/psi+/profiles/default/omemo-*.sqlite
   and restart Psi+.

Also there is no global option to enable OMEMO encryption in all chats of Psi+:
you should explicitly enable encryption in each chat manually.

> dino.im works out of the box.
>
>>  Only working (!) XMPP client I found in Debian so far is: dino.im
>>  which is GTK based.

Great! Martin (debacle) may be proud of his work! =)

>>  Gajim is supposed to be working, but gives a Python traceback on
>>  activating OMEMO. Its also GTK based.

It is strange. Last time I have used Gajim for testing of OMEMO plugin in Psi+
it works fine. Except Gajim could not send OMEMO encrypted files to server. But
is was able to decrypt such files sent from other XMPP clients!

>>  Apparently there more than a dozen XMPP clients for Linux, but none of
>>  them works as nicely as Conversations.im on Android for far.

Conversations is not that perfect (it lucks support of some popular features),
but it is really convenient and simple in usage by regular users, yes.

>>  Pidgin also does not do it.

Pidgin is multi-protocol IM client and this significantly influences to its
structure and development process.

>>  One thing to try still would be KDE Telepathy, as I read somewhere it
>>  would do OMEMO. But it appears to be similarly outdated as Kopete.

And after news like this one:
https://dot.kde.org/2019/02/20/kde-adding-matrix-its-im-framework
I do not believe that any noticeable amount of KDE developers will be
interested in development of XMPP client inside KDE project.
Hope I am wrong here.

>>  Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.

I saw mentions of this project few times (in qxmpp related discussions) but
have not looked on program yet.

As I see there is related team on Salsa:
https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team

But I have no idea why these packages are not in Debian repos yet and why its
maintainers have decided to maintain these packages outside of Debian XMPP
Maintainers team.

Probably Jonah may comment this. (CC-ing)

>>  There are in part contradicting informations on which client can do it
>>  or not:
>>
>>  https://omemo.top/
>>
>>  versus
>>
>>  https://riseup.net/de/chat/clients
>>
>>  for example.

These tables are very useful in general, but they miss some information about
OMEMO support. For example: in which versions of XMPP clients it was
implemented.

For example, Psi IM 2.0 with OMEMO support is not released yet. OMEMO plugin
is currently available only in daily builds of Psi (from git master branch).

Best wishes,
Boris

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Re: [Pkg-xmpp-devel] Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Linus Jahn
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 19:18:13 +0300
Boris Pek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >>  Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.  
>
> I saw mentions of this project few times (in qxmpp related
> discussions) but have not looked on program yet.
>
> As I see there is related team on Salsa:
> https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team
>
> But I have no idea why these packages are not in Debian repos yet and
> why its maintainers have decided to maintain these packages outside
> of Debian XMPP Maintainers team.
>
> Probably Jonah may comment this. (CC-ing)

We don't "have decided" to maintain it outside of debian, we just
didn't have an idea how to get it into debian. Kaidan is still in
development: the basic functionality is not implemented completely yet.
Also, we only recently became a KDE project, so we didn't have the
contact to the debian team.

However recently there were some mails about packaging Kaidan in debian
on the Qt/KDE-list, so I hope it can get into debian soon.

OMEMO is on our roadmap and also PEP (a dependency of OMEMO) has been
implemented for QXmpp (still needs to be upstreamed). But don't expect
OMEMO earlier than in one year.

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Re: [Pkg-xmpp-devel] Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Boris Pek-5
>>  >> Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.
>>
>>  I saw mentions of this project few times (in qxmpp related
>>  discussions) but have not looked on program yet.
>>
>>  As I see there is related team on Salsa:
>>  https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team
>>
>>  But I have no idea why these packages are not in Debian repos yet and
>>  why its maintainers have decided to maintain these packages outside
>>  of Debian XMPP Maintainers team.
>>
>>  Probably Jonah may comment this. (CC-ing)
>
> We don't "have decided" to maintain it outside of debian, we just
> didn't have an idea how to get it into debian.

I mean outside of XMPP team in Debian, but not outside of Debian.

Now git repos for your packages are in independent Salsa group:
https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team
and I have found them only because I was searching for kaidan mentions in
Debian infrastructure.

As for adding of kaidan into Debian repos, then joining to specialized Debian
team usually simplify finding Debian Developers who are interested in
checking and uploading of your packages into Debian.

See this as an advertisement of our team:
https://salsa.debian.org/xmpp-team
=)

> Kaidan is still in
> development: the basic functionality is not implemented completely yet.

And this is absolutely normal. Dino.im is not released yet and lucks some
features too, but it is already available in Debian and may work fine for
some not exacting users.

> Also, we only recently became a KDE project, so we didn't have the
> contact to the debian team.

These are great news! Congratulations!

And now you have a choice between Debian XMPP team and Debian Qt+KDE team:
https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team

> However recently there were some mails about packaging Kaidan in debian
> on the Qt/KDE-list, so I hope it can get into debian soon.

Excellent!

> OMEMO is on our roadmap and also PEP (a dependency of OMEMO) has been
> implemented for QXmpp (still needs to be upstreamed). But don't expect
> OMEMO earlier than in one year.

And this is fine. We are not in a hurry to anywhere.

Best wishes,
Boris

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Re: [Pkg-xmpp-devel] Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

W. Martin Borgert
On 2019-08-19 22:23, Boris Pek wrote:
> And now you have a choice between Debian XMPP team and Debian Qt+KDE team:
> https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team

In fact, I suggested to Jonah and Linus, that Kaidan may be
better off in the latter team. Mainly, because Qt/KDE perform
complex transitions every some years, so packaging work will
need more knowledge around those frameworks than about XMPP.
Also, the KDE team is larger than the XMPP team, which might
help the Kaidan developers. When the package has landed in
Debian, they can easily change teams, if they like.

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Re: Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Martin Steigerwald
In reply to this post by Boris Pek-5
Dropping CC to Jonah as my reply is mostly not related to Kaidan.im.

Hi!

Thank you for your detailed mail.

Boris Pek - 19.08.19, 18:18:13 CEST:
> >>  Is there such a thing available in Debian?
>
> You may ask XMPP related questions in Debian XMPP Maintainers team
> mailing list: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/pkg-xmpp

I was aware of this list, however thought that it was for development
stuff only.

> >>  Kopete 17.08 does not do it.
>
> Yes, IIRC Kopete has support only for GnuPG and OTR.

I found that very recent versions might support it, but those are not
packaged in Debian yet. And I was not sure whether that would be really
the case.

> >>  PSI is said to have OMEMO, but does not appear to have it in
> >>  Debian.
>
> Yes, unfortunately psi package in Debian is outdated and psi-plugins
> package is not in official repos yet. This is in my TODO list, but
> progress is slow...

Ah, I see. Thank you.

> > I now also tried psi-plus. And found I missed two things before:
> >
> > There is a OMEMO plugin and I can activate.
> >
> > Messages send are still not encrypted as I can see in dino.im
> >
> > There is supposed to be a OMEMO plugin symbol in toolbar in chat
> > window but there is not, even tough it is supposed to be there
> > according to settings window.
> >
> > I leave it at that for today.
>
> Current version of Psi+ OMEMO plugin in Debian supports all necessary
> features:
> * e2e encryption in private chats
> * e2e encryption in group chats (all members of group chats should
> have enabled OMEMO plugins in their XMPP clients)
> * e2e encryption of files uploaded to XMPP server using HTTP Upload
> Plugin
> * etc.

I see.

> It is comprehensive tested with Gajim and Conversations.
>
> Please check:
>
> 1) Have you tried to restart application after enabling of OMEMO
> plugin?

Yes.

> 2) Do you have OMEMO buttons on toolbars in chat windows? If
> not you may enable them in Psi+ Options dialog in Toolbars section.

Yes. And I now found them as well.

Either they have not been there before or I just did not find them. I
thought the lock symbol might be it, but it seems that this refers to
the built-in encryption.

I clicked on "Enable OMEMO" with a contact and according to dino-im it
seems to work okay.

> 3) In some rare cases you may face with broken databases.
>    Try to remove files:
>    ~/.local/share/psi+/profiles/default/omemo-*.sqlite
>    and restart Psi+.

I did so before, as I thought I had uninstalled Psi+, but I kept it
around. So maybe there was an issue with that, maybe not.
 
> Also there is no global option to enable OMEMO encryption in all chats
> of Psi+: you should explicitly enable encryption in each chat
> manually.

Yep, I see that now.

> > dino.im works out of the box.
> >
> >>  Only working (!) XMPP client I found in Debian so far is: dino.im
> >>  which is GTK based.
>
> Great! Martin (debacle) may be proud of his work! =)

:)

>
> >>  Gajim is supposed to be working, but gives a Python traceback on
> >>  activating OMEMO. Its also GTK based.
>
> It is strange. Last time I have used Gajim for testing of OMEMO plugin
> in Psi+ it works fine. Except Gajim could not send OMEMO encrypted
> files to server. But is was able to decrypt such files sent from
> other XMPP clients!

Well I could test it again, but as I prefer an Qt based client, I'd go
with psi+ for now. If you like I give it another test and open a bug
report in case it still gives a backtrace.

> >>  Apparently there more than a dozen XMPP clients for Linux, but
> >>  none of them works as nicely as Conversations.im on Android for
> >>  far.
>
> Conversations is not that perfect (it lucks support of some popular
> features), but it is really convenient and simple in usage by regular
> users, yes.

Well, yes, that is what I meant.

> >>  One thing to try still would be KDE Telepathy, as I read somewhere
> >>  it
> >>  would do OMEMO. But it appears to be similarly outdated as Kopete.
>
> And after news like this one:
> https://dot.kde.org/2019/02/20/kde-adding-matrix-its-im-framework
> I do not believe that any noticeable amount of KDE developers will be
> interested in development of XMPP client inside KDE project.
> Hope I am wrong here.

I look forward to newer releases of Konservation and Kopete in Debian.
In my point of view there are some shortcomings regarding KDE/Qt based
applications. One being chat applications and another being a decent
music player. While Amarok is not fully ported to Qt 5, Elisa just is
not there yet.

> >>  Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.
>
> I saw mentions of this project few times (in qxmpp related
> discussions) but have not looked on program yet.
>
> As I see there is related team on Salsa:
> https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team
>
> But I have no idea why these packages are not in Debian repos yet and
> why its maintainers have decided to maintain these packages outside
> of Debian XMPP Maintainers team.
>
> Probably Jonah may comment this. (CC-ing)

He did so. And I reply there.

All the best.
--
Martin


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Re: [Pkg-xmpp-devel] Qt/KDE XMPP/Jabber client with OMEMO

Martin Steigerwald
In reply to this post by Linus Jahn
Hi,

Linus Jahn - 19.08.19, 19:31:33 CEST:

> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 19:18:13 +0300
>
> Boris Pek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>  Then there is kaidan.im which is not packaged yet.
> >
> > I saw mentions of this project few times (in qxmpp related
> > discussions) but have not looked on program yet.
> >
> > As I see there is related team on Salsa:
> > https://salsa.debian.org/kaidan-team
> >
> > But I have no idea why these packages are not in Debian repos yet
> > and
> > why its maintainers have decided to maintain these packages outside
> > of Debian XMPP Maintainers team.
> >
> > Probably Jonah may comment this. (CC-ing)
>
> We don't "have decided" to maintain it outside of debian, we just
> didn't have an idea how to get it into debian. Kaidan is still in
> development: the basic functionality is not implemented completely
> yet. Also, we only recently became a KDE project, so we didn't have
> the contact to the debian team.
>
> However recently there were some mails about packaging Kaidan in
> debian on the Qt/KDE-list, so I hope it can get into debian soon.

Ah, I did not notice these. Thanks for the pointer. Looking forward to
it.

> OMEMO is on our roadmap and also PEP (a dependency of OMEMO) has been
> implemented for QXmpp (still needs to be upstreamed). But don't expect
> OMEMO earlier than in one year.

I understand. I am willing to test kaidan.im Debian package. So in case
you like anyone to test it, tell me. I can also build it myself from
source.

However for productive use OMEMO is a must for me. So I will wait until
OMEMO support being completed before considering kaidan.im for
productive use.

All the best,
--
Martin