Re: Bug#954948: [d-i bullseye alpha2] Sinhala font missing

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Bug#954948: [d-i bullseye alpha2] Sinhala font missing

Holger Wansing-4
Jonas,

many thanks for the quick fix!

Holger




Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 01:24:08 +0000
From: "Debian Bug Tracking System" <[hidden email]>
To: Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
Subject: Bug#954948 closed by Debian FTP Masters <[hidden email]> (reply to Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]>) (Bug#954948: fixed in fonts-noto 20200323-1)


This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report
which was filed against the fonts-noto package:

#954948: [d-i bullseye alpha2] Sinhala font missing

It has been closed by Debian FTP Masters <[hidden email]> (reply to Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]>).


--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Bug#954948: [d-i bullseye alpha2] Sinhala font missing

Jonas Smedegaard-2
Quoting Holger Wansing (2020-03-27 11:23:46)
> many thanks for the quick fix!

You're quite welcome!

Since the very purpose of fonts-noto is large coverage and usage in
embedded devices (e.g. stripping kerning values), I suspect that it may
be beneficial to use also for other locales.

Please do tell if there is interest in that, and how I can help there.

(I tried in the past on my own, but ran into issues with documented test
routines for fonts being obsolete/broken - so I would need a bit of
guidance to help)

 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
Hi Jonas and debian-boot,

Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Since the very purpose of fonts-noto is large coverage and usage in
> embedded devices (e.g. stripping kerning values), I suspect that it may
> be beneficial to use also for other locales.
>
> Please do tell if there is interest in that, and how I can help there.

I'm unsure, if switching completely to Google fonts (fonts-noto is a Google
project, right?) is what we want, thinking about monopolism...


However, I did some tests, and I managed to get a netboot-gtk mini.iso image
built with only this font packages:
        fonts-android-udeb (apparently needed for CJK languages)
        fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb

For my eyes, the result is: all languages are rendered, no TOFU signs like
the ones we had in the past, when fonts where missing.
The fonts are looking different than before, but not bad IMO (speaking for
English and my mother tongue German, I would say: it's 100% readable.)
We would need to validate the quality for all languages (with the help of
translators/users (preferably) or with screenshots old <-> new).
But apart from that, at the first look it seems not that bad!

I have uploaded the resulting mini.iso (and the corresponding gtk-common file
from ..debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/) to GoFile, try it at
https://gofile.io/?c=l59HTp


Note:
With the current setup, this leads to an image growth of 10MB (when I compare
the builds here on my laptop: 75MB for an original built netboot-gtk image
as it is now configured in GIT, and 85MB for an image with only the two udebs
mentioned above).
I assume this could be reduced, if unneeded fonts are skipped from the
used udeb though. Maybe we could even reduce the image size compared to the
original size, because of less overlapping glyphs (need to be checked !).


So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to fonts-noto?


Holger





--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Cyril Brulebois-4
Hi,

Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):

> Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Since the very purpose of fonts-noto is large coverage and usage in
> > embedded devices (e.g. stripping kerning values), I suspect that it
> > may be beneficial to use also for other locales.
> >
> > Please do tell if there is interest in that, and how I can help
> > there.
>
> I'm unsure, if switching completely to Google fonts (fonts-noto is a
> Google project, right?) is what we want, thinking about monopolism...
Right now, I have no strong opinion on this particular topic.

> However, I did some tests, and I managed to get a netboot-gtk mini.iso image
> built with only this font packages:
> fonts-android-udeb (apparently needed for CJK languages)
> fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb
>
> For my eyes, the result is: all languages are rendered, no TOFU signs
> like the ones we had in the past, when fonts where missing.  The fonts
> are looking different than before, but not bad IMO (speaking for
> English and my mother tongue German, I would say: it's 100% readable.)
> We would need to validate the quality for all languages (with the help
> of translators/users (preferably) or with screenshots old <-> new).
> But apart from that, at the first look it seems not that bad!
>
> I have uploaded the resulting mini.iso (and the corresponding
> gtk-common file from ..debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/) to GoFile,
> try it at
> https://gofile.io/?c=l59HTp
>
>
> Note:
> With the current setup, this leads to an image growth of 10MB (when I
> compare the builds here on my laptop: 75MB for an original built
> netboot-gtk image as it is now configured in GIT, and 85MB for an
> image with only the two udebs mentioned above).
> I assume this could be reduced, if unneeded fonts are skipped from the
> used udeb though. Maybe we could even reduce the image size compared
> to the original size, because of less overlapping glyphs (need to be
> checked !).
>
> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to
> fonts-noto?
Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.

I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g. translators
for each language to compare the rendering before/after, and have them
tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I suspect this
might be a rather time consuming task…


Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois ([hidden email])            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Steve McIntyre
Hey folks,

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 05:52:26PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

>Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):
>>
>> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to
>> fonts-noto?
>
>Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
>eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
>and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
>component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.
>
>I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g. translators
>for each language to compare the rendering before/after, and have them
>tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I suspect this
>might be a rather time consuming task…

Maybe just do it, and announce it as a big change for the next alpha
release?

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                [hidden email]
Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Cyril Brulebois-4
Steve McIntyre <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):

> Hey folks,
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 05:52:26PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> >Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):
> >>
> >> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to
> >> fonts-noto?
> >
> >Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
> >eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
> >and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
> >component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.
> >
> >I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g. translators
> >for each language to compare the rendering before/after, and have them
> >tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I suspect this
> >might be a rather time consuming task…
>
> Maybe just do it, and announce it as a big change for the next alpha
> release?
This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).

Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
little.


Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois ([hidden email])            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Jonas Smedegaard-2
In reply to this post by Steve McIntyre
[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]

Quoting Steve McIntyre (2020-03-28 17:58:54)

> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 05:52:26PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> >Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):
> >>
> >> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move
> >> to fonts-noto?
> >
> >Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all
> >our eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for
> >us, and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
> >component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.
> >
> >I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g.
> >translators for each language to compare the rendering before/after,
> >and have them tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I
> >suspect this might be a rather time consuming task…
>
> Maybe just do it, and announce it as a big change for the next alpha
> release?
Thanks for Cc'im me, Steve - I forgot to mention I am not subscribed.


Holger Wansing wrote:
> However, I did some tests, and I managed to get a netboot-gtk mini.iso
> image built with only this font packages:
> fonts-android-udeb (apparently needed for CJK languages)
> fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb

The CJK fonts are _not_ optimized for embedded use.

What I recommend is to switch all _except_ CJK locales to use
fonts-noto-hinted-udeb + fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb.  That should be far
less bloated, and can be reduced further by including only the fonts
actually used.

The package names for the udeb packages are misleading (only reasons not
renaming are a) the annoying delay waiting for NEW processing and b)
bothering you installer team folks with adjusting for such rename).
Really the two packages contain this:

fonts-noto-hinted-udeb: Unhinted fonts actually used by the installer

fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb: Unhinted other fonts (including hieroglyphs)


Holger Wansing wrote:
> I'm unsure, if switching completely to Google fonts (fonts-noto is a
> Google project, right?) is what we want, thinking about monopolism...

Correct, the Noto project is funded by Google (as mentioned in the
package long descriptions).

I share your scepticism towards Google in general, but do not recognize
any reason for concern here specifically.  Maybe if you shared your
concerns in more detail, I am happy to reflect on them.

[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]

 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Jonas Smedegaard-2
[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]

Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2020-03-28 18:45:56)
> Holger Wansing wrote:
> > However, I did some tests, and I managed to get a netboot-gtk
> > mini.iso image built with only this font packages:
> >       fonts-android-udeb (apparently needed for CJK languages)
> >       fonts-noto-unhinted-udeb

@Holger: If you can (easily - perhaps you already computed it for
above?) provide me a list of the actual fonts used in your experimental
build, then I can make a build of fonts-noto targeted experimental where
those fonts (except the CJK ones) are added to fonts-noto-hinted-udeb.

Then it should be possible (hopefully even relatively easy) to check if
size requirements are reasonable.

[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]

 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Jonas Smedegaard
In reply to this post by Cyril Brulebois-4
[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]

Quoting Cyril Brulebois (2020-03-28 18:09:51)

> Steve McIntyre <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 05:52:26PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > >Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):
> > >>
> > >> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to
> > >> fonts-noto?
> > >
> > >Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
> > >eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
> > >and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
> > >component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.
> > >
> > >I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g. translators
> > >for each language to compare the rendering before/after, and have them
> > >tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I suspect this
> > >might be a rather time consuming task…
> >
> > Maybe just do it, and announce it as a big change for the next alpha
> > release?
>
> This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
>
> Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> little.
I understand your concern, and I agree that it makes sense to check with
native speakers of the languages involved.

My worry was how to make it easy to compare, and I think Holgers image
can help with that (I still need to fumble with it to see how best to
use it).

If I get something working, I will try share it with Debian friends in
India to try get a feel for how it might be sensible to proceed more
generally.  Or maybe I will simply take it one locale at a time, get in
touch with each, and have them help evaluate, just as you suggest :-)

[ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [ I am not subscribed: please cc me on replies ]
>
> Quoting Cyril Brulebois (2020-03-28 18:09:51)
> > Steve McIntyre <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 05:52:26PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > > >Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-03-27):
> > > >>
> > > >> So, what's the opinion of the team: is there any interest to move to
> > > >> fonts-noto?
> > > >
> > > >Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
> > > >eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
> > > >and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
> > > >component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.
> > > >
> > > >I suppose the best way to approach this would be to ask e.g. translators
> > > >for each language to compare the rendering before/after, and have them
> > > >tell us what they think (maybe by setting up a poll). I suspect this
> > > >might be a rather time consuming task…
> > >
> > > Maybe just do it, and announce it as a big change for the next alpha
> > > release?
> >
> > This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> > people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> > that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
> >
> > Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> > little.
>
> I understand your concern, and I agree that it makes sense to check with
> native speakers of the languages involved.
>
> My worry was how to make it easy to compare, and I think Holgers image
> can help with that (I still need to fumble with it to see how best to
> use it).
>
> If I get something working, I will try share it with Debian friends in
> India to try get a feel for how it might be sensible to proceed more
> generally.  Or maybe I will simply take it one locale at a time, get in
> touch with each, and have them help evaluate, just as you suggest :-)

I would have created various screenshots, from the original and the new
installer screens. However, if you are volunteering for that... ;-))

Contacting active translators seems the less problematic part, however we
have several languages with no active translators currently.
Those will probably become the more critical parts to evaluate, especially
if it comes to non-latin scripts...



Holger

--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
In reply to this post by Cyril Brulebois-4
Hi,

Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Besides the first topic you mentioned, and the idea of putting all our
> eggs in the same basket (possibly meaning less maintenance for us,
> and/or maybe more pressure on the maintainers of a newly-critical
> component), the big question is what users will think of the changes.

Another benefit I think: it would make it easier to add new languages to
the installer, if needed.
Like with the mail we had some days ago regarding the addition of Moroccan
Darija.
I imagine we are lacking some deeper skills on those topics in the installer
team these days?
But switching to the noto fonts went really smoothly AFAICS, so that might
be an improvement.


Holger

--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
In reply to this post by Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would have created various screenshots, from the original and the new
> installer screens. However, if you are volunteering for that... ;-))

After talking with Jonas, I made a bunch of screenshots for this proposal.
I ran two QEMU instances side-by-side, thus every screenshot has the old and
the new font for the respective langugage (the old one is left, the new noto
is at the right!)
It's simply the first dialog after choosing the language ("choosing location").

For most languages this approach is perfectly fine, means the resolution is
sufficient.
However for some languages it might be a bit to small, but we will see how it
goes. If necessary, we can make other screenshots on real hardware of similar.


So, now the results:
All in all, it looks good to me!
For me, the fonts in nearly all languages look better readable; the lines
are a bit finer, which improves readability. Of course I am talking as a
non-mothertongue reader here!

For very few languages, the text uses noteworthy more place than before, which
might lead to some shortage of place in specific screents.
Will need to look into this further.
This probably affects: Arabic, Dzongkha, Tibetan and Uyghur.

All the screenshots compressed are about 19MB, so I have uploaded them again
to gofile: see https://gofile.io/?c=65DwFs


Best regards
Holger


--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Cyril Brulebois-4
In reply to this post by Cyril Brulebois-4
Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
>
> Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> little.

By the way, I didn't investigate this in deep but I didn't easily spot a
recent change regarding fonts in the few d-i packages I had in mind… I'm
seeing a rather different rendering (which seems rather bad at first
glance) with the daily build I was about to test.

It might be a side effect of the recent fontconfig upload:
  https://tracker.debian.org/news/1113021/accepted-fontconfig-2131-3-source-all-amd64-into-unstable-unstable/

Attached, reference image for the languages screen for bullseye, plus a
screenshot for a daily build.

If someone fancies investigating… ;)


Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois ([hidden email])            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

0002-bullseye.png (35K) Download Attachment
1586416201.745388.png (35K) Download Attachment
signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> > This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> > people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> > that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
> >
> > Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> > little.
>
> By the way, I didn't investigate this in deep but I didn't easily spot a
> recent change regarding fonts in the few d-i packages I had in mind… I'm
> seeing a rather different rendering (which seems rather bad at first
> glance) with the daily build I was about to test.
>
> It might be a side effect of the recent fontconfig upload:
>   https://tracker.debian.org/news/1113021/accepted-fontconfig-2131-3-source-all-amd64-into-unstable-unstable/
>
> Attached, reference image for the languages screen for bullseye, plus a
> screenshot for a daily build.
>
> If someone fancies investigating… ;)

There is no point in investigating that, if we switch to fonts-noto anyway :-))

So I would like to evaluate a decision regarding that issue, before acting on
the above...


Holger


--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Cyril Brulebois-4
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-04-09):

> Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> > > This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> > > people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> > > that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
> > >
> > > Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> > > little.
> >
> > By the way, I didn't investigate this in deep but I didn't easily spot a
> > recent change regarding fonts in the few d-i packages I had in mind… I'm
> > seeing a rather different rendering (which seems rather bad at first
> > glance) with the daily build I was about to test.
> >
> > It might be a side effect of the recent fontconfig upload:
> >   https://tracker.debian.org/news/1113021/accepted-fontconfig-2131-3-source-all-amd64-into-unstable-unstable/
> >
> > Attached, reference image for the languages screen for bullseye, plus a
> > screenshot for a daily build.
> >
> > If someone fancies investigating… ;)
>
> There is no point in investigating that, if we switch to fonts-noto
> anyway :-))
I'm not sure there's actually “no point”. A possible fontconfig issue
could be hindering your tests regarding that switch…


Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois ([hidden email])            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-04-09):
> > Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> (2020-03-28):
> > > > This would be an easy way to publish updated installation images for
> > > > people to toy with, and compare with the previous alpha. And I think
> > > > that'd be a sensible approach (at least that's what I had in mind).
> > > >
> > > > Gathering the results and drawing a conclusion is what worries me a
> > > > little.
> > >
> > > By the way, I didn't investigate this in deep but I didn't easily spot a
> > > recent change regarding fonts in the few d-i packages I had in mind… I'm
> > > seeing a rather different rendering (which seems rather bad at first
> > > glance) with the daily build I was about to test.
> > >
> > > It might be a side effect of the recent fontconfig upload:
> > >   https://tracker.debian.org/news/1113021/accepted-fontconfig-2131-3-source-all-amd64-into-unstable-unstable/
> > >
> > > Attached, reference image for the languages screen for bullseye, plus a
> > > screenshot for a daily build.
> > >
> > > If someone fancies investigating… ;)
> >
> > There is no point in investigating that, if we switch to fonts-noto
> > anyway :-))
>
> I'm not sure there's actually “no point”. A possible fontconfig issue
> could be hindering your tests regarding that switch…

I fail to understand the correlations of all this, apparently.

In this case, we should - at a minimum - postpone the fonts-noto switch for
a later alpha?


Holger



--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Cyril Brulebois-4
Hi,

Finally getting back to this slightly old thread…

Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> (2020-04-13):
> Cyril Brulebois <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'm not sure there's actually “no point”. A possible fontconfig
> > issue could be hindering your tests regarding that switch…

So in the end it wasn't a fontconfig issue, but a pango one instead, see
my reply:

  https://bugs.debian.org/956612#10

> I fail to understand the correlations of all this, apparently.
>
> In this case, we should - at a minimum - postpone the fonts-noto
> switch for a later alpha?

If we're going to ask people to compare how fonts look, we should better
make sure the rendering is correct. Otherwise we're asking them to
compare apples and oranges, and that seems to be a huge waste of time.


Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois ([hidden email])            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Completely switch graphical installer to fonts-noto?

Holger Wansing-4
In reply to this post by Holger Wansing-4
Hi,

Holger Wansing <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, now the results:
> All in all, it looks good to me!
> For me, the fonts in nearly all languages look better readable; the lines
> are a bit finer, which improves readability. Of course I am talking as a
> non-mothertongue reader here!
>
> For very few languages, the text uses noteworthy more place than before, which
> might lead to some shortage of place in specific screents.
> Will need to look into this further.
> This probably affects: Arabic, Dzongkha, Tibetan and Uyghur.
>
> All the screenshots compressed are about 19MB, so I have uploaded them again
> to gofile: see https://gofile.io/?c=65DwFs

Since above upload has been removed from gofile in the meantime, I uploaded
the files to
https://people.debian.org/~holgerw/d-i/proposal-to-switch-g-i-to-fonts-noto/20200402/


However, this is not the final attempt, I will need to create new image and
screenshots, when https://bugs.debian.org/956612 is fixed.
So above just for completeness.


Holger

--
Holger Wansing <[hidden email]>
PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508  3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076