Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Wolfgang Schweer-3
Hi Dominik.

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 02:14:05PM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:

> + * Installation fails when network is configured manually (without
> DHCP) in the installer, even if al lsettings match the default
> settings 1:1. Having a DHCP server hand out the same settings works.

Thanks for reporting this issue. I'm unable to reproduce it, though.

With a gateway configured like described here:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Buster/Requirements#Internet_router
main server scenario 3 installations like explained here:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Buster/Installation#Main_server_installation_scenarios
are always working for me, regardless of the ISO image used for
installation.

Could you please report details:
a) what has been the Debian Installer's error message?
b) what has been your input (IP/CIDR/netmask, gateway, nameserver) when
asked by the Debian Installer?
c) how exactly is your gateway's internal interface configuration
(esp. netmask)?

Wolfgang

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Wolfgang Schweer-3
On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 10:39:33PM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:

> + * Xfce is missing a volume control by default

Thanks for reporting the issue; it's not reproducible for me. It might
happen, though, if the not-yet-ready USB ISO image has been used for
installation. Various packages otherwise pulled in via
dependency/recommendation chains will be missing in that case.

> and mounting devices (USB stivks) does not work
   
Could you please add details (e.g. system used when trying it:
main-server, workstation, diskless workstation, thin client?).  

Wolfgang

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
Hi,

On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 01:20:22PM +0100, Wolfgang Schweer wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 10:39:33PM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> > The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:
>
> > + * Xfce is missing a volume control by default
>
> Thanks for reporting the issue; it's not reproducible for me.

That's strange… Actually, the issue also happens when installing Debian
buster mainline with the Xfce desktop. Sound works, and the PulseAudio
applet can be added manually and it works as well, but it is not added
to the panel by default. I also talked to Xfce upstream and they confirm
it is not added to the panel in the default config.

Thus, I do wonder what you did to make Xfce add volume controls by
default? Or: Pics or it didn't happen ;)…

In any case, we should make sure not to ship a default desktop with such
a basic feature missing by default. We could either get the Xfce
maintainers to add a default panel config that has it, or ship our own
Xfce panel config (possibly with some more tweaks).

> It might
> happen, though, if the not-yet-ready USB ISO image has been used for
> installation. Various packages otherwise pulled in via
> dependency/recommendation chains will be missing in that case.

The netinstall image was used in all cases.

>
> > and mounting devices (USB stivks) does not work
>    
> Could you please add details (e.g. system used when trying it:
> main-server, workstation, diskless workstation, thin client?).  

Diskless workstation (with NBD root).

>
> Wolfgang

-nik

--
Dominik George (1. Vorstandsvorsitzender, pädagogischer Leiter)
Teckids e.V. — Digitale Freiheit mit Jugend und Bildung
https://www.teckids.org/

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Holger Levsen-2
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:03:35AM +0100, Dominik George wrote:

> > > + * Xfce is missing a volume control by default
> >
> > Thanks for reporting the issue; it's not reproducible for me.
>
> That's strange… Actually, the issue also happens when installing Debian
> buster mainline with the Xfce desktop. Sound works, and the PulseAudio
> applet can be added manually and it works as well, but it is not added
> to the panel by default. I also talked to Xfce upstream and they confirm
> it is not added to the panel in the default config.
>
> Thus, I do wonder what you did to make Xfce add volume controls by
> default? Or: Pics or it didn't happen ;)…
 
file a bug against the proper xfce package?!

> In any case, we should make sure not to ship a default desktop with such
> a basic feature missing by default. We could either get the Xfce
> maintainers to add a default panel config that has it, or ship our own
> Xfce panel config (possibly with some more tweaks).

file a bug against the proper xfce package?!


--
cheers,
        Holger

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Wolfgang Schweer-3
In reply to this post by Dominik George-4
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:03:35AM +0100, Dominik George wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 01:20:22PM +0100, Wolfgang Schweer wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 10:39:33PM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> > > The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:
> >
> > > + * Xfce is missing a volume control by default
> >
> > Thanks for reporting the issue; it's not reproducible for me.
>
> That's strange… Actually, the issue also happens when installing Debian
> buster mainline with the Xfce desktop. Sound works, and the PulseAudio
> applet can be added manually and it works as well, but it is not added
> to the panel by default. I also talked to Xfce upstream and they confirm
> it is not added to the panel in the default config.
Thanks for providing details. There's nothing strange as Xfce isn't
missing a volume control: the PulseAudio volume control is available via
the Multimedia menu like expected.

Please consider to update the status page that you refer to the panel.

Wolfgang

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
Hi,

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 10:02:02AM +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:
> file a bug against the proper xfce package?!

I already did, as you may have found out looking at the status page.

Holger, you keep conveying contradictory messages. You keep saying that

 a) bugs should only be filed after verifying they are not a local setup
    issue,

but when I try to get issues verified beforehand, you complain that

 b) bugs should be filed instead.

This is very hard for me to interpret. I am doing my best to both rule
out local issues *and* file bugs once it is clear it is a general issue.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 11:25:39AM +0100, Wolfgang Schweer wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:03:35AM +0100, Dominik George wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 08, 2018 at 01:20:22PM +0100, Wolfgang Schweer wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 10:39:33PM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> > > > The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:
> > >
> > > > + * Xfce is missing a volume control by default
> > >
> > > Thanks for reporting the issue; it's not reproducible for me.
> >
> > That's strange… Actually, the issue also happens when installing Debian
> > buster mainline with the Xfce desktop. Sound works, and the PulseAudio
> > applet can be added manually and it works as well, but it is not added
> > to the panel by default. I also talked to Xfce upstream and they confirm
> > it is not added to the panel in the default config.
>
> Thanks for providing details. There's nothing strange as Xfce isn't
> missing a volume control: the PulseAudio volume control is available via
> the Multimedia menu like expected.
Sorry, but this sounds somewhat ridiculous. No average user expects that
they have to start a separate program from somewhere to control volume -
this is not one of the "learning to know some features of Linux
desktops" things like the desktop switching thing we discussed on IRC,
as every desktop used by average users ha a volume control right on the
default desktop (and Xfce also had before replacing xfce4-mixer with
xfce4-pulse-plugin).

> Please consider to update the status page that you refer to the panel.

OK, but it already says that *Xfce* is missing a volume control -
pavucontrol or anything else from the menu is not Xfce.

-nik

--
Dominik George (1. Vorstandsvorsitzender, pädagogischer Leiter)
Teckids e.V. — Digitale Freiheit mit Jugend und Bildung
https://www.teckids.org/

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Wolfgang Schweer-3
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Schweer-3
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 10:53:19AM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Buster?action=diff&rev1=61&rev2=62

> +   * How to persist packages to be installed in LTSP chroot

Could you please give details? What problems are you facing? Are
packages disappearing?

> +   * How to change only/default desktop used

Are you talking about the desktop used for LTSP clients? This is already
documented in the manual. Or is this about something else?

Wolfgang

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
Hi,

On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:38:08PM +0100, Wolfgang Schweer wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 10:53:19AM -0000, Debian Wiki wrote:
> > The "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" page has been changed by DominikGeorge:
> > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Buster?action=diff&rev1=61&rev2=62
>
> > +   * How to persist packages to be installed in LTSP chroot
>
> Could you please give details? What problems are you facing? Are
> packages disappearing?
>
> > +   * How to change only/default desktop used
>
> Are you talking about the desktop used for LTSP clients? This is already
> documented in the manual. Or is this about something else?
Both are about *recreating* the LTSP chroot with debian-edu-ltsp. There
are situations where one wants to simply remove the chroot and recreate
it, or where this is easier.

Also, the second is about switching the desktop - this is not exactly
what is documented in the manual, where the installation of *additional*
desktops is documented.

More or less, this is about keeping things in sync, which is still a bit
nasty. If you have a tjener and N terminal servers, you end up with
2*(N+1) APT systems to maintain. While some people might want e.g.
different computer labs to have a different set of software, others use
multiple servers just for load balancing and wish to keep them in sync.
The above is a first step towards making this easier.

I will add drafts for the sections in the next days, probably tonight,
both are very straightforward.

-nik.

--
Dominik George (1. Vorstandsvorsitzender, pädagogischer Leiter)
Teckids e.V. — Digitale Freiheit mit Jugend und Bildung
https://www.teckids.org/

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Holger Levsen-2
In reply to this post by Dominik George-4
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 11:51:54AM +0100, Dominik George wrote:
> I already did, as you may have found out looking at the status page.
 
sorry, I only noted after sending that mail.

> This is very hard for me to interpret. I am doing my best to both rule
> out local issues *and* file bugs once it is clear it is a general issue.
 
great. as you are a DD I expect you know how to file bugs...

btw: commit messages are also nice when editing the wiki. makes
reviewing the diff much easier.


--
cheers,
        Holger

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Schweer-3
> > + * Installation fails when network is configured manually (without
> > DHCP) in the installer, even if al lsettings match the default
> > settings 1:1. Having a DHCP server hand out the same settings works.
>
> Thanks for reporting this issue. I'm unable to reproduce it, though.

Now unable to reproduce as well.

-nik

--
Dominik George (1. Vorstandsvorsitzender, pädagogischer Leiter)
Teckids e.V. — Digitale Freiheit mit Jugend und Bildung
https://www.teckids.org/

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Schweer-3
Hi,

> > and mounting devices (USB stivks) does not work
>    
> Could you please add details (e.g. system used when trying it:
> main-server, workstation, diskless workstation, thin client?).  

I just tried this again. I used the current
debian-edu-testing-netinst-amd64.iso and installed everything as
pre-selected by the installer.

After that, I booted a diskless workstation and logged in.

I cannot mount any drives in Xfce, it gives "Not authorized to perform
operation".

I can, however, mount disks when logging in in Xfce on tjener.

Looking at the packages isntalled in the chroot, I could not make aout
any differences causing this (I could make out unrelated differences I
consider bugs, though).

Against which package should I report this?

-nik

--
Dominik George (1. Vorstandsvorsitzender, pädagogischer Leiter)
Teckids e.V. — Digitale Freiheit mit Jugend und Bildung
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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Wolfgang Schweer-3
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 07:01:19PM +0100, Dominik George wrote:
> Looking at the packages isntalled in the chroot, I could not make aout
> any differences causing this

Please see the Buster status page for the removable media issue.

> (I could make out unrelated differences I consider bugs, though).
>
> Against which package should I report this?

This difference is intended: packages not useful/superfluous inside the
chroot are removed at the end of the installation.
 
Wolfgang

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Re: [debian-edu-commits] [Debian Wiki] Update of "DebianEdu/Status/Buster" by DominikGeorge

Dominik George-4
>Please see the Buster status page for the removable media issue.

Ah, cool. I checked tons of things, but that utmp thing is a nice catch!

>> (I could make out unrelated differences I consider bugs, though).
>>
>> Against which package should I report this?
>
>This difference is intended: packages not useful/superfluous inside the
>
>chroot are removed at the end of the installation.

...and this includes nano and bash-completion, to name two? I hope not ;).

-nik
--
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