Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
Hello,

I just subscribed to this list to post this message.

This message is an answer to the thread started by:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html

@Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
"Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"

Let me say how I got there. I am the maintainer of the Slint distribution,
based on Slackware, cf. http://slint.fr.
In Slint we have no issue switching back an forth between console and graphical
modes, thus Alex Arnaud suggested that I have a look at Debian testing.

I installed Debian Buster in a VirtualBox VM today, switched to starting in
console mode (systemctl set-default multi-user.target) then compared the alsa
and pulseaudio settings with those of Slint64-14.2.1.1

I then made these changes:
1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default plugin for
applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.

I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
"Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop but maybe that
doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications that need it.

I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.

But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
shipped in Slint and it worked. I know, ugly hack but it was easier for me than
to rebuild a Debian package (I am not a Debian user).

I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa and pulseaudio
as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue mentioned in
the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html

I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
authorities though ;)

Last word: now when the desktop starts after "startx" I hear the messages
triggered by startx, but then one can just redirect the output and standard
error to some file, of review the patch audio-pause to allow enabling again
espeakup when going back to a VT.

Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
shipped in Slint.

Best regards,

Didier









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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Samuel Thibault-8
Hello,

(I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
maintainers in Cc)

Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>
> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"

Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
card completely and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes
espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.

> I then made these changes:
> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop

So using dmix is not the default in Debian?

> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default plugin for
> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.

> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.

> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
> authorities though ;)

There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
maintainers will know better.

> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop but maybe that
> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications that need it.

And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.

> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
> shipped in Slint and it worked.

Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
(i.e. the Debian binary)

- whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
  which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).

- a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
  it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
  on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
  I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
  kept popping up.

> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa and pulseaudio
> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue mentioned in
> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html

Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.

> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
> shipped in Slint.

That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
getting stuck somehow.

Samuel

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
Hello,

On 02/11/2018 01:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:

>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>
> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
> pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>
> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>   which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>
> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>   it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>   on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>   I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>   kept popping up.
To check, I applied the Debian patch audio-pause against espeakup-0.80
in Slint, rebuilt and installed a package repkacing the previously
installed one.

I observed in Slint the same behavior as in Debian: no speech from
espeak when going back to console mode from graphical mode.

All was correct again installing back the previous package, without the patch.

Looks like a confirmation, I think.

>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
>> shipped in Slint.
>
> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
> getting stuck somehow.

I couldn't check that in Slint because we don't use systemd.

Didier
 

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8


On 02/11/18 00:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Hello,
>
> (I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
> maintainers in Cc)
>
> Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
>> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>>
>> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
>> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
>> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"
>
> Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
> that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
> card completely
No, I think it is not as simple as that as I stated when I first
reported the issue, pulseaudio is not installed on this system.

  and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes

> espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
> take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
> inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.
>
>> I then made these changes:
>> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
>> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
>> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
>
> So using dmix is not the default in Debian?
>
>> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
>> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default plugin for
>> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.
>
>> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
>> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.
>
>> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
>> authorities though ;)
>
> There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
> There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
> default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
> why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
> bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
> seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
> I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
> maintainers will know better.
>
>> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
>> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop but maybe that
>> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications that need it.
>
> And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.
>
>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>
> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
> pulseaudio is started in X?
No, espeakup doesn't take the card again once anything in x uses it.  I
am using libao for orca is x and speakup does not get the card when
switching back to a console.
   It'd be interesting to check with the patch

> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>
> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>    which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>
> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>    it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>    on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>    I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>    kept popping up.
>
>> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa and pulseaudio
>> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue mentioned in
>> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html
>
> Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
> pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.
>
>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
>> shipped in Slint.
>
> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
> getting stuck somehow.
>
> Samuel
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
Hello,

On 02/11/2018 17:33, Keith Barrett wrote:
>   It'd be interesting to check with the patch
Unfortunately I was unable to properly rebuild a Debian package that provides an
espeakup binary speaking after going back from graphical mode and sorry, I can't
spend too much time on that.

Instead, I provide a binary that you can try, which is the one I am using right
now. I checked that it works as expected in my Debian Buster virtual machine.

To get and install it at your own risks:
wget http://slint.fr/testing/debian/espeakup
wget http://slint.fr/testing/debian/espeakup.md5
md5sum -c espeakup.md5
su - # or use sudo
cp /usr/bin/espeakup /usr/bin/espeakup.orig
cp espeakup /usr/bin/
reboot

You can double check that the file size is 23168 bytes and its md5sum is:
07bf31d91eaa47b7fbf1a7d08fde8511

Let us know how that goes.

best regards,

Didier

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Re: Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett
Hello,

Unfortunately, the modofication did not work, I copied it according to
Didier's instructions but got no speech from speakup following the reboot.

Reverting back to the original /usr/bin/espeakup got speech working again.

Thanks

Keith

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
Hello,

I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.

Maybe you have a 32-bit system?

Best,

Didier

On 03/11/2018 20:32, Keith Barrett wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Unfortunately, the modofication did not work, I copied it according to Didier's instructions but got no speech from speakup following the reboot.
>
> Reverting back to the original /usr/bin/espeakup got speech working again.
>
> Thanks
>
> Keith
>
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett


On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
>
> Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
No, I have a 64-bit system.
Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?



>
> Best,
>
> Didier
>
> On 03/11/2018 20:32, Keith Barrett wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Unfortunately, the modofication did not work, I copied it according to Didier's instructions but got no speech from speakup following the reboot.
>>
>> Reverting back to the original /usr/bin/espeakup got speech working again.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:

>
>
> On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
>>
>> Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
> No, I have a 64-bit system.
> Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
i
Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.

 

>> Best,
>>
>> Didier
>>
>> On 03/11/2018 20:32, Keith Barrett wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the modofication did not work, I copied it according to Didier's instructions but got no speech from speakup following the reboot.
>>>
>>> Reverting back to the original /usr/bin/espeakup got speech working again.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Keith


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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett


On 04/11/18 13:48, Didier Spaier wrote:

> On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
>>>
>>> Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
>> No, I have a 64-bit system.
>> Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
> i
> Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
> chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
> chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.
>
Success, it must have been permissions.
I have been switching between X and the console and so far, after a few
hours, no crashes at all.

Thank you Didier for your efforts, a long standing issue solved for me,
can we get the change included in debian?



>  
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Didier
>>>
>>> On 03/11/2018 20:32, Keith Barrett wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the modofication did not work, I copied it according to Didier's instructions but got no speech from speakup following the reboot.
>>>>
>>>> Reverting back to the original /usr/bin/espeakup got speech working again.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Keith
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Samuel Thibault-8
Keith Barrett, le dim. 04 nov. 2018 18:32:41 +0000, a ecrit:

> On 04/11/18 13:48, Didier Spaier wrote:
> > On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
> > > No, I have a 64-bit system.
> > > Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
> > i
> > Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
> > chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
> > chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.
> >
> Success, it must have been permissions.
> I have been switching between X and the console and so far, after a few
> hours, no crashes at all.
>
> Thank you Didier for your efforts, a long standing issue solved for me, can
> we get the change included in debian?

Not that simply since as I mentioned the setup that Didier uses is not
the default setup configured by the pulseaudio package. That needs to be
discussed with pulseaudio maintainers.

Samuel

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett


On 04/11/18 18:36, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Keith Barrett, le dim. 04 nov. 2018 18:32:41 +0000, a ecrit:
>> On 04/11/18 13:48, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
>>>> No, I have a 64-bit system.
>>>> Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
>>> i
>>> Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
>>> chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
>>> chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.
>>>
>> Success, it must have been permissions.
>> I have been switching between X and the console and so far, after a few
>> hours, no crashes at all.
>>
>> Thank you Didier for your efforts, a long standing issue solved for me, can
>> we get the change included in debian?
>
> Not that simply since as I mentioned the setup that Didier uses is not
> the default setup configured by the pulseaudio package. That needs to be
> discussed with pulseaudio maintainers.
I thought that this was a different issue as I do not have pulseaudio on
this system and I still had the problem before Didier's modification and
now the problem is corrected.


>
> Samuel
>
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Samuel Thibault-8
Keith Barrett, le dim. 04 nov. 2018 18:46:51 +0000, a ecrit:

> On 04/11/18 18:36, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Keith Barrett, le dim. 04 nov. 2018 18:32:41 +0000, a ecrit:
> > > On 04/11/18 13:48, Didier Spaier wrote:
> > > > On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
> > > > > No, I have a 64-bit system.
> > > > > Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
> > > > i
> > > > Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
> > > > chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
> > > > chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.
> > > >
> > > Success, it must have been permissions.
> > > I have been switching between X and the console and so far, after a few
> > > hours, no crashes at all.
> > >
> > > Thank you Didier for your efforts, a long standing issue solved for me, can
> > > we get the change included in debian?
> >
> > Not that simply since as I mentioned the setup that Didier uses is not
> > the default setup configured by the pulseaudio package. That needs to be
> > discussed with pulseaudio maintainers.
> I thought that this was a different issue as I do not have pulseaudio on
> this system and I still had the problem before Didier's modification and now
> the problem is corrected.

Yes, but the difference between Didier's version and the Debian version
is a patch meant to fix the issue in the pulseaudio case without using
Didier's pulseaudio setup.

Samuel

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
Hello,

this is a follow-up, with bad news.

The tests I made that were successful were in console mode
(systemctl set-default multi-user.target)

However, they failed when in graphical mode:
(systemctl set-default graphical.target)

I go as far as re installing Debian Buster on bare metal (USB connected hard
disk), tried many things including all listed below to no avail: once Orca is
running in the Mate desktop if I type Ctrl+Alt+F2 I don't have sound, although
espeakup be running.

I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.

When lightdm is running but I didn't login yet, I can e.g. type Ctr+Alt+F2 and
login in this tty with speech, but as soon as I am logged in through lightdm and
orca (and pulse) is started for a regular user I have no more sound.

I tried with and without autospawn of pulse, same bad result.

I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.

I will just answer questions from Debian folks, if any.

Meanwhile, my advice to blind Linux users is to use Slint ;)

Best regards,

Didier


On 02/11/2018 01:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Hello,
>
> (I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
> maintainers in Cc)
>
> Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
>> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>>
>> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
>> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
>> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"
>
> Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
> that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
> card completely and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes
> espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
> take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
> inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.
>
>> I then made these changes:
>> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
>> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
>> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
>
> So using dmix is not the default in Debian?
>
>> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
>> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default plugin for
>> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.
>
>> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
>> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.
>
>> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
>> authorities though ;)
>
> There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
> There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
> default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
> why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
> bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
> seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
> I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
> maintainers will know better.
>
>> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
>> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop but maybe that
>> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications that need it.
>
> And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.
>
>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>
> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
> pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>
> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>   which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>
> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>   it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>   on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>   I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>   kept popping up.
>
>> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa and pulseaudio
>> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue mentioned in
>> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html
>
> Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
> pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.
>
>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
>> shipped in Slint.
>
> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
> getting stuck somehow.
>
> Samuel
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

john doe-6
On 11/6/2018 12:23 PM, Didier Spaier wrote:

> Hello,
>
> this is a follow-up, with bad news.
>
> The tests I made that were successful were in console mode
> (systemctl set-default multi-user.target)
>
> However, they failed when in graphical mode:
> (systemctl set-default graphical.target)
>
> I go as far as re installing Debian Buster on bare metal (USB connected hard
> disk), tried many things including all listed below to no avail: once Orca is
> running in the Mate desktop if I type Ctrl+Alt+F2 I don't have sound, although
> espeakup be running.
>
> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>
> When lightdm is running but I didn't login yet, I can e.g. type Ctr+Alt+F2 and
> login in this tty with speech, but as soon as I am logged in through lightdm and
> orca (and pulse) is started for a regular user I have no more sound.
>
> I tried with and without autospawn of pulse, same bad result.
>
> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>
> I will just answer questions from Debian folks, if any.
>
> Meanwhile, my advice to blind Linux users is to use Slint ;)
>

Or using the terminal provided by the DE.

--
John Doe

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
On 06/11/2018 12:51, john doe wrote:
> Or using the terminal provided by the DE.

Yes, but only it it is accessible,i.e. if
there is still speech on the desktop.
 

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

chrys
In reply to this post by Didier Spaier
Howdy,

i dont want to ditch speakup, but you also may want to try out fenrir  
:). i got a lot of positive feedback from archLinux users where i can  
provide an PKGBUILD for. in fact F123 is basing its images for low  
budget computers on that screenreader. so its very fast too, witout  
need of digging around in kernel. I m not blind, but i mostly created  
it based on information and wishes i got from blind users (you may  
know i.e. storm_dragon, Kyle or deedra from orca list). you can make  
it go away for GUI or controll it via the remote manager to make it  
fill the needs at runntime. for pulseaudio i provide some simple setup  
scripts.
I would be happy to see some testers on other distros then archlinux  
too :). what makes me able fix up issues for other distos like debian  
too.

it can also just run in an GUI terminal without need an 3rd party  
software like an patched version of screen or tmux.

cheers chrys
Zitat von Didier Spaier <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> this is a follow-up, with bad news.
>
> The tests I made that were successful were in console mode
> (systemctl set-default multi-user.target)
>
> However, they failed when in graphical mode:
> (systemctl set-default graphical.target)
>
> I go as far as re installing Debian Buster on bare metal (USB connected hard
> disk), tried many things including all listed below to no avail: once Orca is
> running in the Mate desktop if I type Ctrl+Alt+F2 I don't have  
> sound, although
> espeakup be running.
>
> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>
> When lightdm is running but I didn't login yet, I can e.g. type  
> Ctr+Alt+F2 and
> login in this tty with speech, but as soon as I am logged in through  
> lightdm and
> orca (and pulse) is started for a regular user I have no more sound.
>
> I tried with and without autospawn of pulse, same bad result.
>
> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>
> I will just answer questions from Debian folks, if any.
>
> Meanwhile, my advice to blind Linux users is to use Slint ;)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Didier
>
>
> On 02/11/2018 01:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> (I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
>> maintainers in Cc)
>>
>> Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
>>> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>>>
>>> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
>>> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
>>> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"
>>
>> Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
>> that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
>> card completely and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes
>> espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
>> take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
>> inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.
>>
>>> I then made these changes:
>>> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
>>> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
>>> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
>>
>> So using dmix is not the default in Debian?
>>
>>> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
>>> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default  
>>> plugin for
>>> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.
>>
>>> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
>>> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.
>>
>>> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
>>> authorities though ;)
>>
>> There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
>> There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
>> default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
>> why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
>> bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
>> seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
>> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
>> I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
>> maintainers will know better.
>>
>>> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
>>> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop  
>>> but maybe that
>>> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications  
>>> that need it.
>>
>> And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.
>>
>>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had  
>>> a look at the
>>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought  
>>> that it could
>>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>>
>> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
>> pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
>> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>>
>> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>>   which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>>
>> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>>   it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>>   on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>>   I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>>   kept popping up.
>>
>>> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa  
>>> and pulseaudio
>>> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue  
>>> mentioned in
>>> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html
>>
>> Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
>> pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.
>>
>>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
>>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup  
>>> binary by the one
>>> shipped in Slint.
>>
>> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
>> getting stuck somehow.
>>
>> Samuel
>>



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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Didier Spaier
I have in my TODO list to try fenrir, so thanks for the reminder Chrys.

I guess that the PKGBUILD is here:
https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=fenrir
I'll let you know how that goes on Slint.

I don't think that can fully replace speakup though ;)

Anyway the issue of switching between console and graphical modes in Debian remains.

Best regards,

Didier

On 06/11/2018 13:44, [hidden email] wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> i dont want to ditch speakup, but you also may want to try out fenrir :). i got a lot of positive feedback from archLinux users where i can provide an PKGBUILD for. in fact F123 is basing its images for low budget computers on that screenreader. so its very fast too, witout need of digging around in kernel. I m not blind, but i mostly created it based on information and wishes i got from blind users (you may know i.e. storm_dragon, Kyle or deedra from orca list). you can make it go away for GUI or controll it via the remote manager to make it fill the needs at runntime. for pulseaudio i provide some simple setup scripts.
> I would be happy to see some testers on other distros then archlinux too :). what makes me able fix up issues for other distos like debian too.
>
> it can also just run in an GUI terminal without need an 3rd party software like an patched version of screen or tmux.
>
> cheers chrys
> Zitat von Didier Spaier <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> this is a follow-up, with bad news.
>>
>> The tests I made that were successful were in console mode
>> (systemctl set-default multi-user.target)
>>
>> However, they failed when in graphical mode:
>> (systemctl set-default graphical.target)
>>
>> I go as far as re installing Debian Buster on bare metal (USB connected hard
>> disk), tried many things including all listed below to no avail: once Orca is
>> running in the Mate desktop if I type Ctrl+Alt+F2 I don't have sound, although
>> espeakup be running.
>>
>> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
>> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>>
>> When lightdm is running but I didn't login yet, I can e.g. type Ctr+Alt+F2 and
>> login in this tty with speech, but as soon as I am logged in through lightdm and
>> orca (and pulse) is started for a regular user I have no more sound.
>>
>> I tried with and without autospawn of pulse, same bad result.
>>
>> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand how audio
>> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>>
>> I will just answer questions from Debian folks, if any.
>>
>> Meanwhile, my advice to blind Linux users is to use Slint ;)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Didier
>>
>>
>> On 02/11/2018 01:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> (I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
>>> maintainers in Cc)
>>>
>>> Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
>>>> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
>>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>>>>
>>>> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
>>>> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
>>>> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"
>>>
>>> Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
>>> that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
>>> card completely and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes
>>> espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
>>> take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
>>> inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.
>>>
>>>> I then made these changes:
>>>> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
>>>> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
>>>> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
>>>
>>> So using dmix is not the default in Debian?
>>>
>>>> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
>>>> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the default plugin for
>>>> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.
>>>
>>>> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and applications
>>>> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.
>>>
>>>> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
>>>> authorities though ;)
>>>
>>> There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
>>> There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
>>> default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
>>> why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
>>> bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
>>> seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
>>> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
>>> I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
>>> maintainers will know better.
>>>
>>>> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
>>>> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop but maybe that
>>>> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications that need it.
>>>
>>> And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.
>>>
>>>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I had a look at the
>>>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I thought that it could
>>>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>>>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>>>
>>> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
>>> pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
>>> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>>>
>>> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>>>   which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>>>
>>> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>>>   it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>>>   on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>>>   I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>>>   kept popping up.
>>>
>>>> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa and pulseaudio
>>>> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue mentioned in
>>>> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
>>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html
>>>
>>> Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
>>> pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.
>>>
>>>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate the system
>>>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>>>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>>>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup binary by the one
>>>> shipped in Slint.
>>>
>>> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
>>> getting stuck somehow.
>>>
>>> Samuel
>>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

chrys
Howdy,

> https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=fenrir
right

> I'll let you know how that goes on Slint.
I know about users who run it on windows, BSD and MacOSX ;) so i  
assume it runs on Slint too.

> I don't think that can fully replace speakup though ;)
oh, i would be interested in why? Thats exact the kind of feedback i m  
looking for :).
There are already a lot of fenrir only users out there :). but mostly  
on Arch based systems. so at least for them it seems to be able ;).
let me know what you think or what is missing. code is nothing fixed  
or hammered in stone ;) .

something off topic,
i see in slint you ship KDE plasma. i want to give some attention here  
on our progress to make it accessible. you and maybe others here might  
be interested in.
see federiks (my mentor) blogpost:
http://blogs.fsfe.org/gladhorn/2018/11/05/accessibility-update-kickoff-kicker-and-kwin-improvements/
or see some cherry picked status updates from mailing list:
https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-accessibility/2018-October/003245.html
https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-accessibility/2018-October/003251.html
https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-accessibility/2018-November/003259.html
so the next version will have everything _basic_ on place to be able  
to initial work with KDE for blind people (First time in KDEs history!).

of course help is always welcome :).
I have only good words to the KDE community. the guys there are very  
frindly and ready to help out where ever possible.

cheers chrys

Zitat von Didier Spaier <[hidden email]>:

> I have in my TODO list to try fenrir, so thanks for the reminder Chrys.
>
> I guess that the PKGBUILD is here:
> https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=fenrir
> I'll let you know how that goes on Slint.
>
> I don't think that can fully replace speakup though ;)
>
> Anyway the issue of switching between console and graphical modes in  
> Debian remains.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Didier
>
> On 06/11/2018 13:44, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> i dont want to ditch speakup, but you also may want to try out  
>> fenrir :). i got a lot of positive feedback from archLinux users  
>> where i can provide an PKGBUILD for. in fact F123 is basing its  
>> images for low budget computers on that screenreader. so its very  
>> fast too, witout need of digging around in kernel. I m not blind,  
>> but i mostly created it based on information and wishes i got from  
>> blind users (you may know i.e. storm_dragon, Kyle or deedra from  
>> orca list). you can make it go away for GUI or controll it via the  
>> remote manager to make it fill the needs at runntime. for  
>> pulseaudio i provide some simple setup scripts.
>> I would be happy to see some testers on other distros then  
>> archlinux too :). what makes me able fix up issues for other distos  
>> like debian too.
>>
>> it can also just run in an GUI terminal without need an 3rd party  
>> software like an patched version of screen or tmux.
>>
>> cheers chrys
>> Zitat von Didier Spaier <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> this is a follow-up, with bad news.
>>>
>>> The tests I made that were successful were in console mode
>>> (systemctl set-default multi-user.target)
>>>
>>> However, they failed when in graphical mode:
>>> (systemctl set-default graphical.target)
>>>
>>> I go as far as re installing Debian Buster on bare metal (USB  
>>> connected hard
>>> disk), tried many things including all listed below to no avail:  
>>> once Orca is
>>> running in the Mate desktop if I type Ctrl+Alt+F2 I don't have  
>>> sound, although
>>> espeakup be running.
>>>
>>> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand  
>>> how audio
>>> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>>>
>>> When lightdm is running but I didn't login yet, I can e.g. type  
>>> Ctr+Alt+F2 and
>>> login in this tty with speech, but as soon as I am logged in  
>>> through lightdm and
>>> orca (and pulse) is started for a regular user I have no more sound.
>>>
>>> I tried with and without autospawn of pulse, same bad result.
>>>
>>> I am sorry, but I already spent too much time trying to understand  
>>> how audio
>>> works in Debian to investigate this issue, so I give up.
>>>
>>> I will just answer questions from Debian folks, if any.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, my advice to blind Linux users is to use Slint ;)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Didier
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/11/2018 01:42, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> (I reordered things a bit to make the story clearer for pulseaudio
>>>> maintainers in Cc)
>>>>
>>>> Didier Spaier, le ven. 02 nov. 2018 01:13:09 +0100, a ecrit:
>>>>> This message is an answer to the thread started by:
>>>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html
>>>>>
>>>>> @Keith: If you don't use pulseaudio, the issue could be an unexpected
>>>>> consequence of applying since Thu, 03 May 2018 the patch audio-pause:
>>>>> "Pause espeak when the console is switched to a graphical VT"
>>>>
>>>> Well, I believe that report is just another case of the well-known issue
>>>> that once pulseaudio is started in X (e.g. for orca), it holds the ALSA
>>>> card completely and espeakup can't take it again.  The pause patch makes
>>>> espeakup release the ALSA card so that pulseaudio triggered by Orca can
>>>> take it. This is considered a better behavior than not getting any audio
>>>> inside X just because espeakup holds the ALSA card.
>>>>
>>>>> I then made these changes:
>>>>> 1) Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to append these lines:
>>>>> load-module module-alsa-sink device=dmix
>>>>> load-module module-alsa-source device=dsnoop
>>>>
>>>> So using dmix is not the default in Debian?
>>>>
>>>>> 2) In /usr/share/alsa, remove the files pukse-alsa.conf and
>>>>> alsa.conf.d/alsa.conf, to avoid setting pulseaudio as the  
>>>>> default plugin for
>>>>> applications using Alsa when pulseaudio is running.
>>>>
>>>>> I made these changes so that applications using pulseaudio and  
>>>>> applications
>>>>> using alsa directly can nicely coexist, not stepping on each others toes.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if the modifications I made are acceptable by the Debian
>>>>> authorities though ;)
>>>>
>>>> There is no such thing like "Debian authorities".
>>>> There are the maintainers of the pulseaudio stack, which define a
>>>> default configuration which aims at the most common case.  I don't know
>>>> why dmix is not part of it, that's with them to be discussed, e.g. in a
>>>> bug report. Making pulseaudio share the device with alsa thanks to dmix
>>>> seems like an option indeed, that you could document on
>>>> http://wiki.debian.org/accessibility
>>>> I don't know what counterparts there might be to it, again pulseaudio
>>>> maintainers will know better.
>>>>
>>>>> I also disabled autostarting of pulseaudio at the user level, appending:
>>>>> "Hidden=true" to the file /etc/xdg/autostart/pukseaudio.desktop  
>>>>> but maybe that
>>>>> doesn't matter. Anyway pulseaudio is spawned by the applications  
>>>>> that need it.
>>>>
>>>> And notably here by Orca, so I don't think that is involved here.
>>>>
>>>>> But these changes were not sufficient to solve the issue so I  
>>>>> had a look at the
>>>>> speakup Debian package. Seeing the aforementioned patch I  
>>>>> thought that it could
>>>>> cause the issue. To check I just replaced /usr/bin/espeakup by the binary
>>>>> shipped in Slint and it worked.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, so somehow espeakup doesn't manage to take the ALSA card again once
>>>> pulseaudio is started in X?  It'd be interesting to check with the patch
>>>> (i.e. the Debian binary)
>>>>
>>>> - whether starting espeakup only after running pulseaudio in X works (in
>>>>   which case it's the espeakup resume which fails).
>>>>
>>>> - a backtrace of espeakup when it failed to resume, i.e. attach a gdb to
>>>>   it and run thread apply all bt full. One such kind of trace was posted
>>>>   on http://linux-speakup.org/pipermail/speakup/2018-October/061491.html
>>>>   I haven't found the time to really look at it yet, various things have
>>>>   kept popping up.
>>>>
>>>>> I understand that you won't be interested by my settings of alsa  
>>>>> and pulseaudio
>>>>> as you don't use pulseaudio, but this could also solve the issue  
>>>>> mentioned in
>>>>> the thread "pulseaudio and espeakup" beginning with this message :
>>>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2017/12/msg00089.html
>>>>
>>>> Yes, thus documenting on the wiki, so people can configure it even if
>>>> pulseaudio maintainers prefer not to set it by default.
>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and I almost forgot: with the patch when rebooting from Mate  
>>>>> the system
>>>>> didn't halt but was stuck with this message (from systemd, I assume):
>>>>> As stop job is running for Software speech output for Speakup
>>>>> This do not happens anymore after having replaced the espeakup  
>>>>> binary by the one
>>>>> shipped in Slint.
>>>>
>>>> That's an interesting point indeed, it really sounds like the daemon is
>>>> getting stuck somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Samuel
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>



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Re: loss of speech in speakup when switching between console and gui

Keith Barrett
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8


On 04/11/18 18:36, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Keith Barrett, le dim. 04 nov. 2018 18:32:41 +0000, a ecrit:
>> On 04/11/18 13:48, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2018 14:37, Keith Barrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 03/11/18 19:54, Didier Spaier wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I should have stated that this binary is a 64-bit one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you have a 32-bit system?
>>>> No, I have a 64-bit system.
>>>> Just thinking about it later, could it be a permissions/ownership issue?
>>> i
>>> Just in case, try again, this time typing as root after having copied the file:
>>> chown root:root /usr/bin/espeakup
>>> chmod 755 /usr/bin/espeakup.
>>>
>> Success, it must have been permissions.
>> I have been switching between X and the console and so far, after a few
>> hours, no crashes at all.
>>
>> Thank you Didier for your efforts, a long standing issue solved for me, can
>> we get the change included in debian?
>
> Not that simply since as I mentioned the setup that Didier uses is not
> the default setup configured by the pulseaudio package. That needs to be
> discussed with pulseaudio maintainers.
>
> Samuel
Hello Samuel,
Until the issues can be resolved,  is it possible then when installing
using speech to not have the install install pulseaudio and to add
Didier's modification?
To recap, this means that switching between the console and graphical
interface works as expected, as long as pulseaudio is not present.
I know there may be arguments to retain pulseaudio but until it can be
made to work, it is an obsticle to an accessible system.



I am concerned that unless the issues are solved by the release of
buster, we are shipping a non-accessible system.




>
>

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