Salsa vs Github

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Salsa vs Github

Paul Sutton-2
Hi

I am creating levels for the Rocks and Diamonds game (
https://www.artsoft.org/ ) these are being uploaded to my project
repository on salsa

https://salsa.debian.org/zleap-guest/rocksndiamondslevels

I am in the process of updating the README.md files so, hopefully others
can also be part of this project.

Questions:

is it possible to
1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?

2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?

I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on salsa.

Thanks for any help

Paul Sutton

--
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

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Re: Salsa vs Github

Dominik George-7
Hi,

>I am creating levels for the Rocks and Diamonds game (
>https://www.artsoft.org/ ) these are being uploaded to my project
>repository on salsa
>
>https://salsa.debian.org/zleap-guest/rocksndiamondslevels
>
>I am in the process of updating the README.md files so, hopefully
>others
>can also be part of this project.
>
>Questions:
>
>is it possible to
>1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?
>
>2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?

first off, please do *never* use GitHub for free software.

Especially not in a project that might be used by one of the groups GitHub discriminates against (potential contributors under 16 years of age in that case).

That said:

Forking on either platform is nothing more than git clone; git remote add origin; git push. So yes, you can fork any repository to anywhere else.

If you want GitHub users to also be able to use the issue tracker, etc., EduGit.org might be an option for a game as well.

-nik

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please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Mark Allums-4
On 5/16/19 11:34 AM, Dominik George wrote:
> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software

Please explain, in detail, why.

Mark

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Dominik George-7
>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>
>Please explain, in detail, why.

If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you, here's why:

https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html

https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/

https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm

-nik

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Mark Allums-4
On 5/17/19 2:28 AM, Dominik George wrote:

>>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>>
>> Please explain, in detail, why.
>
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you, here's why:
>
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
>
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
>
> -nik
>

I'm not convinced,  Give me more.

Mark

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by Dominik George-7
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 09:28:51AM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> >> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software

[links]

Thanks for the links. Up to now, I avoided Github mainly because
I'm always wary of those "open core", which pay lip service to
"Open Source" (and make heavy use of free software) while taking
advantage of the network effect to keep users captive.

After Microsoft's "kiss of death" they're doubly-suspect to me.

But it's always good to have some links by smarter people than
me...

Cheers
-- t

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Paul Sutton-2


On 17/05/2019 09:39, [hidden email] wrote:

> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 09:28:51AM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
>>>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>
> [links]
>
> Thanks for the links. Up to now, I avoided Github mainly because
> I'm always wary of those "open core", which pay lip service to
> "Open Source" (and make heavy use of free software) while taking
> advantage of the network effect to keep users captive.
>
> After Microsoft's "kiss of death" they're doubly-suspect to me.
>
> But it's always good to have some links by smarter people than
> me...
>
> Cheers
> -- t
>


I agree that if we stick to either using salsa for Debian projects it
makes it easier to collaborate, keeps everything together and Debian ,
as hosts, keeps interests at heart, accountability is then to the
community.  Similarly if we self host a repository structure then we are
in control,

As the underpinning idea allows us to collaborate cross platforms then
we have the choice.

Paul

--
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

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Re: Salsa vs Github

Jonathan Dowland
In reply to this post by Paul Sutton-2
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>is it possible to
>1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?

No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.

Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
the git repository.

>2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?

No.

>I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on salsa.

If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
pull requests raised on GitHub.

It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
burden :)

--
👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland
✎    [hidden email]
🔗 https://jmtd.net

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Re: Salsa vs Github

Paul Sutton-2


On 17/05/2019 10:23, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>> is it possible to
>> 1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?
>
> No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
> git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
> create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
> references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
> be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.
>
> Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
> ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
> between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
> the git repository.
>
>> 2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?
>
> No.
>
>> I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>> are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on
>> salsa.
>
> If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
> your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
> your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
> changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
> pull requests raised on GitHub.
>
> It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
> potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
> don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
> burden :)
>
Cool thanks,  most of my github projects are personal anyway. It is
probably just quicker to, as you said,  create and clone a new
repository, add the files to it,then push it up to salsa.

I won't be doing anything complex like tracking issues between the two
platforms just yet as I am still learning how to do the basics.

Paul

--
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

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Re: Salsa vs Github

john doe-6
On 5/17/2019 11:47 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:

>
>
> On 17/05/2019 10:23, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>>> is it possible to
>>> 1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?
>>
>> No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
>> git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
>> create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
>> references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
>> be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.
>>
>> Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
>> ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
>> between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
>> the git repository.
>>
>>> 2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>>> are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on
>>> salsa.
>>
>> If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
>> your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
>> your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
>> changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
>> pull requests raised on GitHub.
>>
>> It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
>> potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
>> don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
>> burden :)
>>
> Cool thanks,  most of my github projects are personal anyway. It is
> probably just quicker to, as you said,  create and clone a new
> repository, add the files to it,then push it up to salsa.
>
> I won't be doing anything complex like tracking issues between the two
> platforms just yet as I am still learning how to do the basics.
>

I could be missing something here but why not simply 'mirroring' the
github repo to salsa?

--
John Doe

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Re: Salsa vs Github

Nate Bargmann-4
* On 2019 17 May 04:53 -0500, john doe wrote:
 
> I could be missing something here but why not simply 'mirroring' the
> github repo to salsa?

That is possible but, as far as I know, it is a manual process.  I do
the same with a project hosted on both SourceForge and GitHub.  For any
updates I manually push to each repository to keep them in sync.

Features of each site are not reflected on the other.  These are things
like issue trackers, pull requests generated through the respective
sites, or forks on the respective sites.  These things are all
peripheral to the source in the Git repository but are important
metadata which the Git repository will not contain.

When branches are created that are intended to be long lived, they must
be pushed to each site individually.  Sometimes mistakes happen so one
almost needs a checklist to be sure are the steps get done each time.

HTH,

- Nate

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: http://www.n0nb.us  GPG key: D55A8819  GitHub: N0NB

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

rhkramer
In reply to this post by Dominik George-7
On Friday, May 17, 2019 03:28:51 AM Dominik George wrote:

> >> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
> >
> >Please explain, in detail, why.
>
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you,
> here's why:
>
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
>
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm

I might try to read these later, but don't have time at the moment, but I do
have a question:

Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the
intellectual property of the software?

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Dominik George-7
>Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the
>intellectual property of the software?

No.

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by rhkramer
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:52:02AM -0400, [hidden email] wrote:

[...]

> Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the
> intellectual property of the software?

Absolutely not. *If* there's a strategy behind that (there might be, to
the tune of $7.5B), it has to be more subtle.

I've seen quite a few people confusing Git and Github (yes, software
developers). That kind of thing.

Cheers
-- t

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Aidan Gauland-5
In reply to this post by Dominik George-7
On 17/05/19 7:28 PM, Dominik George wrote:
>>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>> Please explain, in detail, why.
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you, here's why:
>
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
>
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
one is new to me.

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Dominik George-7
>Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>one is new to me.

I did. Please read my mails in this thread.

-nik

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

arne
In reply to this post by Dominik George-7
On Fri, 17 May 2019 17:57:55 +0200
Dominik George <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the
> >intellectual property of the software?  
>
> No.
>

No, not now

But when, matter of time I guess.

Been there, done that.

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Ben Finney-3
In reply to this post by Mark Allums-4
Mark Allums <[hidden email]> writes:

> On 5/17/19 2:28 AM, Dominik George wrote:
> >> Please explain, in detail, why.
> > https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
> > https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
> > https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
>
> I'm not convinced,  Give me more.

If the above articles don't convince you, what would convince you that
has not already been said?

I'm sure you can appreciate that some people have unreasonable demands
for being convinced, and no amount of persuasion is enough. Can you give
an example of what reasonable presentation would be needed to convince
you on this matter?

--
 \        “Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas |
  `\     are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.” |
_o__)                                                    —Howard Aiken |
Ben Finney

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Aidan Gauland-5
In reply to this post by Dominik George-7
On 18/05/19 11:08 AM, Dominik George wrote:
>> Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>> one is new to me.
> I did. Please read my mails in this thread.
I have, and I just re-read the articles you gave, and I still do not see
anything about discrimination by age, or against any group of people,
only the usual issues with hosting free software on/with non-free
services (which reason enough to avoid GitHub).

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Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Richard Hector
On 18/05/19 5:17 PM, Aidan Gauland wrote:
> On 18/05/19 11:08 AM, Dominik George wrote:
>>> Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>>> one is new to me.
>> I did. Please read my mails in this thread.
> I have, and I just re-read the articles you gave, and I still do not see
> anything about discrimination by age, or against any group of people,
> only the usual issues with hosting free software on/with non-free
> services (which reason enough to avoid GitHub).
>

I'm not going to read them again, but IIRC one of them referred to the
GitHub ToC, which contained a bit about restricting accounts to those
over 13 years of age, and claiming this was due to US law (but not
specifying which law).

Richard


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