Server hardware advice.

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Server hardware advice.

Steven Mainor
Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
people at most.

My requirements are:

A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
this particular project.

A gigabit ethernet port.

A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.

Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
reading files from nextcloud.

I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform Security
Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous.

So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will be enough
to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't like that it
is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can handle as I
understand it.

Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more powerful or is
there a better option I haven't read about yet?

--
Steven Mainor



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Re: Server hardware advice.

Richard Hector
On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
> people at most.
>
> My requirements are:
>
> A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
> this particular project.
>
> A gigabit ethernet port.
>
> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
>
> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
> reading files from nextcloud.
>
> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform Security
> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous.
>
> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW
>
> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will be enough
> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't like that it
> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can handle as I
> understand it.
>
> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more powerful or is
> there a better option I haven't read about yet?
You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and
openness ...

https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ?

Richard



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Re: Server hardware advice.

Steven Mainor
You are correct. That was an oversight.

Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver and the heatsinks.

I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better.
--
Steven Mainor

On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote:
Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
people at most.

My requirements are:

A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
this particular project.

A gigabit ethernet port.

A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.

Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
reading files from nextcloud.

I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform Security
Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous.

So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will be enough
to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't like that it
is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can handle as I
understand it.

Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more powerful or is
there a better option I haven't read about yet?

You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and
openness ...

https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ?

Richard


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Re: Server hardware advice.

Reco
In reply to this post by Steven Mainor
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
> people at most.
>
> My requirements are:
>
> A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
> this particular project.
>
> A gigabit ethernet port.
>
> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
>
> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
> reading files from nextcloud.

 These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
without any additional firmware):

Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.


> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
day.

Reco

[1] https://kobol.io/
[2] http://gnubee.org/
[3] https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/

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Re: Server hardware advice.

john doe-6
On 8/7/2019 8:53 AM, Reco wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
>> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
>> people at most.
>>
>> My requirements are:
>>
>> A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
>> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
>> this particular project.
>>
>> A gigabit ethernet port.
>>
>> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
>>
>> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
>> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
>> reading files from nextcloud.
>
>  These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
> without any additional firmware):
>
> Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
> GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
> Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.
>
>
>> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
>> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW
>
> That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
> day.
>
> Reco
>
> [1] https://kobol.io/
> [2] http://gnubee.org/
> [3] https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/
>

I don't have a room dedicated to my devices, is there any solution that
is fan less?
Url (3) looks to be the case.

--
John Doe

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Jonas Smedegaard-2
In reply to this post by Reco
Quoting Reco (2019-08-07 08:53:52)

> On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
> > I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary
> > focus on security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that
> > will serve 3 to 5 people at most.
> >
> > My requirements are:
> >
> > A server setup that can be run with completely open source software
> > and doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything
> > closed source for this particular project.
> >
> > A gigabit ethernet port.
> >
> > A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
> >
> > Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server
> > from an encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate
> > throughput saving and reading files from nextcloud.
>
>  These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
> without any additional firmware):
>
> Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
> GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
> Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.
No powerful computers exist today completely without non-free parts:
Since you point to Open Source Hardware below, beware that none of above
devices are OSHWA certified: https://certification.oshwa.org/list.html -
if however your freedom concerns are limited to _software_ parts then it
is easier: Look for boards supported in mainline Linux and u-boot, and
supported in Debian!

Disregarding OSHW I agree that above options are good highlights.
Additionally I suggest Olimex A64-Olinuxino and ESPRESSObin, both
(unlike above options) known to be mainlined and work with Debian
Buster.

Personally, for hosting mail + Nextcloud for a small team I would
tolerate USB2.0 and use the OSHWA certified board Olimex A64-Olinuxino.

Only for heavy professional demands (e.g. an advertising agency pushing
big files across a LAN all the time) I would use a Helios4.


> > So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones
> > listed here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

Happy to see that list being of use beyond the FreedomBox project and my
own competing https://solidbox.org/ :-)

Please note that above list is limited to more consumer-oriented devices
than your spec needs - e.g. must be sold with a proper case and be
cheaper than you tolerate.


> That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
> day.

Care to elaborate?


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Jonas Smedegaard-2
In reply to this post by john doe-6
Quoting john doe (2019-08-07 09:33:35)

> On 8/7/2019 8:53 AM, Reco wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
> >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary
> >> focus on security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that
> >> will serve 3 to 5 people at most.
> >>
> >> My requirements are:
> >>
> >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source software
> >> and doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything
> >> closed source for this particular project.
> >>
> >> A gigabit ethernet port.
> >>
> >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
> >>
> >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server
> >> from an encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate
> >> throughput saving and reading files from nextcloud.
> >
> >  These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
> > without any additional firmware):
> >
> > Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
> > GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
> > Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.
> >
> >
> >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones
> >> listed here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW
> >
> > That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in
> > the day.
> >
> > Reco
> >
> > [1] https://kobol.io/
> > [2] http://gnubee.org/
> > [3] https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/
> >
>
> I don't have a room dedicated to my devices, is there any solution
> that is fan less?
> Url (3) looks to be the case.
The ODroid board ships with huge passive cooling which helps if the room
is adequately cool - and otherwise will "throttle" - i.e. run at lower
speeds to avoid meltdown.

Heat is indeed a reason to consider other boards than above.  My
recommendation is to buy the industrial-grade A64-OLinuXino-2Ge8G-IND
https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-OLinuXino/open-source-hardware

 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Reco
In reply to this post by Jonas Smedegaard-2
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 10:21:25AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
> > day.
>
> Care to elaborate?

Specifically it gave me an idea to buy that Linksys WRT1200.
Works for me since stretch, the only disadvantages are the need to build
an out-of-tree kernel module (mwlwifi) for WiFi and feed it non-free
firmware.
But I needed a router, the thing fit the need.

Reco

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Jonas Smedegaard-2
Quoting Reco (2019-08-07 10:53:35)

> On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 10:21:25AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in
> > > the day.
> >
> > Care to elaborate?
>
> Specifically it gave me an idea to buy that Linksys WRT1200.
> Works for me since stretch, the only disadvantages are the need to
> build an out-of-tree kernel module (mwlwifi) for WiFi and feed it
> non-free firmware.
> But I needed a router, the thing fit the need.
So when you wrote "That list is outdated somewhat" you really meant
"That list didn't fit my needs and was inspirational even then."

Great to hear that!


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Steven Mainor
In reply to this post by Reco
Thanks for the reply. Those seem like options to consider. The pre-orders for the helios4 seem to be sold out for now.
--
Steven Mainor

On August 7, 2019 2:53:52 AM EDT, Reco <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on
security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5
people at most.

My requirements are:

A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and
doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for
this particular project.

A gigabit ethernet port.

A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.

Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an
encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and
reading files from nextcloud.

These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
without any additional firmware):

Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.


So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed
here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
day.

Reco

[1] https://kobol.io/
[2] http://gnubee.org/
[3] https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc2-home-cloud-two/

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Steven Mainor
In reply to this post by Jonas Smedegaard-2
Perhaps you are right about usb 2.0. And the Olimex A64-OLinuXino does seem like a solid option otherwise.

I wasn't able to verify which usb the Olimex A64-OLinuXino had. It didn't specifically say on the specs page. And the github link for the schematic seems to be broken.

https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/blob/master/HARDWARE/A64-OLinuXino/A64-OlinuXino_Rev_C.pdf
--
Steven Mainor

On August 7, 2019 4:21:25 AM EDT, Jonas Smedegaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quoting Reco (2019-08-07 08:53:52)
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 01:29:21AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary
focus on security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that
will serve 3 to 5 people at most.

My requirements are:

A server setup that can be run with completely open source software
and doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything
closed source for this particular project.

A gigabit ethernet port.

A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.

Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server
from an encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate
throughput saving and reading files from nextcloud.

These fit all your requirements (i.e. it'll run stock buster kernel
without any additional firmware):

Helios4 - [1]. 4 SATA ports controller attached to PCI-E.
GnuBee - [2]. 6 SATA ports attached to PCI-E.
Odroid HC2 - [3]. Single SATA port, attached to USB bus.

No powerful computers exist today completely without non-free parts:
Since you point to Open Source Hardware below, beware that none of above
devices are OSHWA certified: https://certification.oshwa.org/list.html -
if however your freedom concerns are limited to _software_ parts then it
is easier: Look for boards supported in mainline Linux and u-boot, and
supported in Debian!

Disregarding OSHW I agree that above options are good highlights.
Additionally I suggest Olimex A64-Olinuxino and ESPRESSObin, both
(unlike above options) known to be mainlined and work with Debian
Buster.

Personally, for hosting mail + Nextcloud for a small team I would
tolerate USB2.0 and use the OSHWA certified board Olimex A64-Olinuxino.

Only for heavy professional demands (e.g. an advertising agency pushing
big files across a LAN all the time) I would use a Helios4.


So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones
listed here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW

Happy to see that list being of use beyond the FreedomBox project and my
own competing https://solidbox.org/ :-)

Please note that above list is limited to more consumer-oriented devices
than your spec needs - e.g. must be sold with a proper case and be
cheaper than you tolerate.


That list is outdated somewhat. But it gave me good ideas back in the
day.

Care to elaborate?


- Jonas
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Re: Server hardware advice.

nektarios
In reply to this post by Steven Mainor
On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 02:08:30 -0400
Steven Mainor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You are correct. That was an oversight.
>
> Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver
> and the heatsinks.
>
> I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard
> drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. --
> Steven Mainor
>
> On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote:  
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a
> >> primary  
> >focus on  
> >> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will
> >> serve 3  
> >to 5  
> >> people at most.
> >>
> >> My requirements are:
> >>
> >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source
> >> software  
> >and  
> >> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything
> >> closed  
> >source for  
> >> this particular project.
> >>
> >> A gigabit ethernet port.
> >>
> >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
> >>
> >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail
> >> server  
> >from an  
> >> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput  
> >saving and  
> >> reading files from nextcloud.
> >>
> >> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform  
> >Security  
> >> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous.
> >>
> >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the
> >> ones  
> >listed  
> >> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW
> >>
> >> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor
> >> will  
> >be enough  
> >> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't  
> >like that it  
> >> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can  
> >handle as I  
> >> understand it.
> >>
> >> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more  
> >powerful or is  
> >> there a better option I haven't read about yet?  
> >
> >You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and
> >openness ...
> >
> >https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ?
> >
> >Richard  

I have a similar home setup and have to say that with the mail service
and seafile server (and a few smaller services) running in docker the
setup the PC is already consuming 1G of ram. I m using an old PC. I
wouldnt suggest a less powerful box as you will run out of ram.
If you need fanless checkout an intel nuc. Debian should run fine with
it although I think it will need some drivers from the non-free repos.

Regards,
--
Nektarios Katakis

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Jonas Smedegaard-2
In reply to this post by Steven Mainor
Quoting Steven Mainor (2019-08-07 12:04:35)
> Perhaps you are right about usb 2.0. And the Olimex A64-OLinuXino does
> seem like a solid option otherwise.
>
> I wasn't able to verify which usb the Olimex A64-OLinuXino had. It
> didn't specifically say on the specs page. And the github link for the
> schematic seems to be broken.
>
> https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/blob/master/HARDWARE/A64-OLinuXino/A64-OlinuXino_Rev_C.pdf

They reorganized and updated that git.  Try step back to
https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/tree/master/HARDWARE/A64-OLinuXino

See also https://linux-sunxi.org/Olimex_A64-OLinuXino


 - Jonas

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Reco
In reply to this post by Steven Mainor
        Hi.

On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 05:58:57AM -0400, Steven Mainor wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. Those seem like options to consider. The
> pre-orders for the helios4 seem to be sold out for now.

They are currently at fourth "campaign", i.e. they're manufacturing a
fourth batch. Supply is limited (they produce like a thousand boards per
batch), your best bet is a preorder (I got mine at their second
"campaign").

Hopefully they do fifth.

Reco

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Re: Server hardware advice.

mick crane
In reply to this post by nektarios
On 2019-08-07 11:13, Nektarios Katakis wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 02:08:30 -0400
> Steven Mainor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You are correct. That was an oversight.
>>
>> Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver
>> and the heatsinks.
>>
>> I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard
>> drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. --
>> Steven Mainor
>>
>> On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a
>> >> primary
>> >focus on
>> >> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will
>> >> serve 3
>> >to 5
>> >> people at most.
>> >>
>> >> My requirements are:
>> >>
>> >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source
>> >> software
>> >and
>> >> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything
>> >> closed
>> >source for
>> >> this particular project.
>> >>
>> >> A gigabit ethernet port.
>> >>
>> >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to.
>> >>
>> >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail
>> >> server
>> >from an
>> >> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput
>> >saving and
>> >> reading files from nextcloud.
>> >>
>> >> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform
>> >Security
>> >> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous.
>> >>
>> >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the
>> >> ones
>> >listed
>> >> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW
>> >>
>> >> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor
>> >> will
>> >be enough
>> >> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't
>> >like that it
>> >> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can
>> >handle as I
>> >> understand it.
>> >>
>> >> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more
>> >powerful or is
>> >> there a better option I haven't read about yet?
>> >
>> >You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and
>> >openness ...
>> >
>> >https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ?
>> >
>> >Richard
>
> I have a similar home setup and have to say that with the mail service
> and seafile server (and a few smaller services) running in docker the
> setup the PC is already consuming 1G of ram. I m using an old PC. I
> wouldnt suggest a less powerful box as you will run out of ram.
> If you need fanless checkout an intel nuc. Debian should run fine with
> it although I think it will need some drivers from the non-free repos.
>
> Regards,

I use old Lenovos which are quiet and so cheap (20UKP)you can have one
for each job.
Don't bother with cloud but scp files about.
Don't know how the webmail would manage with multiple connections.

mick
--
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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Re: Server hardware advice.

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Steven Mainor
Steven Mainor wrote:

> I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard drive(s)
> I already have drives. Less is better.

When I read server hardware I understand also server hardware. It has many
CPUs a lot of ram, redundant power supply etc. It consumes a lot of power
and costs a lot.
For under 500 you can not get any of this and for your use case you do not
need this as well.

Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU and
32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to above
100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual
machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume
this will add overhead). The disks (I have 8) use also 3-5Watt each. Buying
newer - larger disks, pays off, but it is insignificant what you save on
power per year, most is burned by the CPU, so choose CPU and mainboard
carefully.
Unless you do not have to, avoid virtualization - it costs more energy.

I hope this helps


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Re: Server hardware advice.

Michael Stone-2
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 04:53:52PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
>Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU and
>32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to above
>100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual
>machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume
>this will add overhead).

Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very
little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by
using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's
new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.)

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Re: Server hardware advice.

deloptes-2
Michael Stone wrote:

> Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very
> little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by
> using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's
> new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.)

I am not sure who you are answering to. I recently looked at HP DL360 and
DL380 Gen10. Yes indeed they are more power efficient compared to Gen9 in
terms they provide more calculation cycles for the same power, but this can
not be compared to a PC.

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Re: Server hardware advice.

Michael Stone-2
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 05:12:20PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
>Michael Stone wrote:
>> Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very
>> little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by
>> using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's
>> new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.)
>
>I am not sure who you are answering to.

What's confusing about the attribution and text that I quoted?

>I recently looked at HP DL360 and
>DL380 Gen10. Yes indeed they are more power efficient compared to Gen9 in
>terms they provide more calculation cycles for the same power, but this can
>not be compared to a PC.

HP g9 and g10 are both well past the dawn of the era of low idle
consumption so there aren't huge differences to be found there. The base
power consumption of that class of system is rather higher than a small
desktop primarily because of redundancy and BMC (IPMI/remote
management)--not the CPU. A different server chassis & motherboard
choice will result in much lower base consumption, if the redundancy and
remote management aren't needed. But even the HP DLs of the g9/g10 era
can idle at around half the 85W you mentioned. (Whereas a comparable g6
might have idled over 100W, and even older servers idled at 300 or
400W.) The point is that it's not correct to assume that a "server" will
have a high idle consumption, and if power efficiency is a goal it's
achievable through reasonable selection of components. (Conversely, a
"desktop" may have higher power consumption if it has a beefy GPU, and
older desktops have much higher idle power just like older servers.)

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Re: Server hardware advice.

ghe-2
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
Depends on what you're trying to do.

I run a small domain on a T1 without pictures or audio, so I'm using a
Raspberry Pi 3 as a server. Quite a bit faster than the old PDP-11s the
'Net started out with, and significantly less expensive. And smaller.

My domain used to be a lot larger, but still a T1 and very little
video/audio. I used the bottom-of-the-line Dell servers back then, and
bought my own RAM (Dell gets a lot for a RAM stick). The biggest
advantage to the Dell servers, aside from the reliability of the
components (over 15 years, I never had one fail), was that they could be
bought without the Windows tax.

If you're looking to do a full blown Google level server on a 10G
connection, advice there is above my pay scale...

--
Glenn English

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