Small Open Source Digital Classroom

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Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Markos

Hi Friends,

My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only WhatsApp video calls.

To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to organize virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.

Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and easy-to-use for this?

Preferably a Debian package?

Thank you,

Markos

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Bob Weber
On 3/31/20 12:44 PM, Markos wrote:

Hi Friends,

My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only WhatsApp video calls.

To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to organize virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.

Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and easy-to-use for this?

Preferably a Debian package?

Thank you,

Markos

Have you seen Debian education? Start here and see if there are any programs that your wife could use.  They probably would need the students to have Debian on their computers or you could use vnc so they could all see what the teacher is doing on her computer (possible security problems maybe make students only view without write).

https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/


--


...Bob
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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

deloptes-2
Bob Weber wrote:

> Have you seen Debian education? Start here and see if there are any
> programs that your wife could use.  They probably would need the students
> to have Debian on their computers or you could use vnc so they could all
> see what the teacher is doing on her computer (possible security problems
> maybe make students only view without write).
>
> https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/
> <https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/>

Sorry to make this comment, but for professional use, please, recommend
something that _is_ working. Most of the damage done to linux desktop is of
things not fully working or not working at all

Also think of administrative overhead. I would look into web tools instead.
Years ago we were doing few things with moodle - but it is huge and mostly
pays off only at institutional level. Since then I have not looked into
what is available, but I am sure there are plenty of open source free web
tools that can be used. Recently I was looking at zoom.us - seems to be in
hype now - can be installed in debian and can be used as video conferencing
tool.

Don't waste time on VNC - what a BS idea! If I were the teacher I would be
ashamed if my students had to use it.

On the fly google "linux free class room software" says

https://www.goodfirms.co/blog/the-9-best-free-and-open-source-digital-classroom-management-software
https://www.linux.com/news/best-linux-tools-teachers-and-students/
https://blog.capterra.com/the-top-free-digital-classroom-management-software-and-classroom-collaboration-tools/



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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Jude DaShiell-3
In reply to this post by Markos
barnard for command line users and mumble for graphical users can
connect to the same channel and the interface will be video not just
text.

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Markos wrote:

> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:44:14
> From: Markos <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Small Open Source Digital Classroom
> Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> Hi Friends,
>
> My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only WhatsApp
> video calls.
>
> To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to organize
> virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.
>
> Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and easy-to-use for
> this?
>
> Preferably a Debian package?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Markos
>
>

--

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Berkhan Berkdemir
In reply to this post by Markos
I would highly recommend to check Jitsi [0]. Offers *almost* the same features that Zoom has.

[0]: https://jitsi.org

On March 31, 2020 9:44:14 AM PDT, Markos <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi Friends,
>
>My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only
>WhatsApp video calls.
>
>To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to
>organize virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.
>
>Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and
>easy-to-use for this?
>
>Preferably a Debian package?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Markos

--
Please excuse any tpyos as it was sent from my K-9.

Berkhan Berkdemir
www.berkhanberkdemir.com

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Reco
In reply to this post by Markos
        Hi.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 01:44:14PM -0300, Markos wrote:
> Hi Friends,
>
> My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only WhatsApp video calls.
>
> To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to organize virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.
>
> Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and easy-to-use for this?

https://openmeetings.apache.org/

Not in Debian, but relatively easy to install and use.
Requires 100Mbps symmetric connection, about 4Gb of RAM.

Reco

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Anil F Duggirala
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020, at 1:17 PM, deloptes wrote:

> Bob Weber wrote:
>
> > > Also think of administrative overhead. I would look into web tools instead.
> Years ago we were doing few things with moodle - but it is huge and mostly
> pays off only at institutional level. Since then I have not looked into
> what is available, but I am sure there are plenty of open source free web
> tools that can be used. Recently I was looking at zoom.us - seems to be in
> hype now - can be installed in debian and can be used as video conferencing
> tool.
>
I second Zoom. You can install it via flatpak, which might make you feel better. I tried jitsi some time ago, I think that will require a bit more setup for sure.


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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

nito
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 08:17:56PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> […] Recently I was looking at zoom.us - seems to be in
> hype now - can be installed in debian and can be used as video conferencing
> tool.

Based on zoom's "privacy" policy and everything I've herad so far about it,
I would not recommend using zoom. Some examples:
- Just a week or so ago it was exposed that zoom was sharing data with facebook
  without informing the user about it or giving any choice on that. Alledgedly
  they stopped it now [1]
- Zoom created Security-Holes with it's Mac-Client, that persisted even after
  deinstalling zoom on OSX. [2]  Personally I wouldn't trust their other clients
  either.
- Zoom can collect more data about you then you might think and share this with
  the meeting-creator. [3]
 
[1] https://www.komando.com/security-privacy/zoom-ios-app-facebook/732681/
[2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzjj4/zoom-video-conferencing-vulnerability-lets-hackers-turn-on-your-webcam
[3] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/what-you-should-know-about-online-tools-during-covid-19-crisis

Jitsi has already been mentioned and while I only ever used it for smaller
groups, from what I've heard it can also handle larger groups, though in that
case you might need to host your own instance on a server with enough bandwith.
That's if just a simple video conference is enough for this use case.

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by Anil F Duggirala
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 03:09:47PM -0500, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:

[...]

> I second Zoom. You can install it via flatpak, which might make you feel better. I tried jitsi some time ago, I think that will require a bit more setup for sure.

It's proprietary, right?

-- t

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by nito
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:27:28PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 08:17:56PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> > […] Recently I was looking at zoom.us - seems to be in
> > hype now - can be installed in debian and can be used as video conferencing
> > tool.
>
> Based on zoom's "privacy" policy and everything I've herad so far about it,
> I would not recommend using zoom. Some examples:

[...]

Shudder. OK, for me (and my customers) it's toast. Thanks for
pointing that out.

Cheers
-- t

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Yvan Masson-4
In reply to this post by Reco
I definitely recommend Jitsi Meet: there is nothing to install on both
sides, and many companies/people already provide free servers you can
use for any purpose without registration, for example:
- https://meet.jit.si
- https://suricate.tv (french server/company)

I know teachers that are using it these days with many students (30+)
and it works (at least with webcam / and mic switched off for students.
You can easily share your entire screen or just a window.

If you need more free servers, I can provide a few others (french only).

Yvan


Le 31/03/2020 à 21:56, Reco a écrit :

> Hi.
>
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 01:44:14PM -0300, Markos wrote:
>> Hi Friends,
>>
>> My wife is a teacher and is trying to teach remote lessons using only WhatsApp video calls.
>>
>> To help her I am looking for a package in the Debian repository to organize virtual classes for small groups, 5 or 6 students maximum.
>>
>> Any suggestion of an open-source program easy-to-configure and easy-to-use for this?
>
> https://openmeetings.apache.org/
>
> Not in Debian, but relatively easy to install and use.
> Requires 100Mbps symmetric connection, about 4Gb of RAM.
>
> Reco
>

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Russell L. Harris-2
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:27:59PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 03:09:47PM -0500, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:

>>I second Zoom. You can install it via flatpak, which might make you
>>feel better. I tried jitsi some time ago, I think that will require
>>a bit more setup for sure.

>It's proprietary, right?

According to the jitsi.org web site, Jitsi provides "Multi-platform
open-source video conferencing".

You can conference through a server at jitsi.org, or you can download
a jitsi package (a Debian package is available) which you can install
on your own server and run with complete independence from jitsi.org.

At the moment, the Debian STABLE repository contains no Jitsi package.
Inasmuch as I make it a rule never to install on my primary machine
Debian packages other than those which downloaded from the Debian
repository, I installed Debian on a spare machine, and installed on
that machine the Debian package from jitsi.org.  jitsi worked nicely
for me.

RLH

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by nito
[hidden email] wrote:

> Based on zoom's "privacy" policy and everything I've herad so far about
> it, I would not recommend using zoom. Some examples:
> - Just a week or so ago it was exposed that zoom was sharing data with
> facebook without informing the user about it or giving any choice on that.
> Alledgedly they stopped it now [1]
> - Zoom created Security-Holes with it's Mac-Client, that persisted even
> after deinstalling zoom on OSX. [2]  Personally I wouldn't trust their
> other clients either.
> - Zoom can collect more data about you then you might think and share this
> with the meeting-creator. [3]
>
> [1] https://www.komando.com/security-privacy/zoom-ios-app-facebook/732681/
> [2]
>
[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzjj4/zoom-video-conferencing-vulnerability-lets-hackers-turn-on-your-webcam
> [3]
>
[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/what-you-should-know-about-online-tools-during-covid-19-crisis

Good point. I did not install it for the reason, but still it is easy to
use - the target group has most probably all iPhone or Android and Facebook
etc. Right - so in the context, it is not a bigger issue than the one that
already exists


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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Russell L. Harris-2
Russell L. Harris wrote:

> You can conference through a server at jitsi.org, or you can download
> a jitsi package (a Debian package is available) which you can install
> on your own server and run with complete independence from jitsi.org.

well, if you had the bandwidth.
1:1 works @home, but conferencing needs a much better connection that costs
respectively


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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Gene Heskett-4
On Tuesday 31 March 2020 18:24:30 deloptes wrote:

> Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > You can conference through a server at jitsi.org, or you can
> > download a jitsi package (a Debian package is available) which you
> > can install on your own server and run with complete independence
> > from jitsi.org.
>
> well, if you had the bandwidth.
> 1:1 works @home, but conferencing needs a much better connection that
> costs respectively

Since many of us are on an adsl rated at 10 megabit now, fast enough to
watch youtube etc, what would you estimate is the minimum upload
bandwidth needed to take the pain for others away?

Thanks deloptes.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

celejar
In reply to this post by Russell L. Harris-2
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 21:14:00 +0000
"Russell L. Harris" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At the moment, the Debian STABLE repository contains no Jitsi package.

Actually, *no* official Debian repository currently contains Jitsi. It
was removed in 2017, apparently due to QA issues, although I don't know
the whole story:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=870990

> Inasmuch as I make it a rule never to install on my primary machine
> Debian packages other than those which downloaded from the Debian
> repository, I installed Debian on a spare machine, and installed on
> that machine the Debian package from jitsi.org.  jitsi worked nicely
> for me.

I spend some time today trying to find a libre alternative to Zoom,
preferably one in the Debian repos, but came up empty. The closest I
found were indeed Jitsi Meet (a part of the much larger Jitsi project),
and BigBlueButton, libre but designed to be installed on a Ubuntu
system. I'm actually puzzled by why there doesn't seem to be any easy,
solid libre alternative to Zoom.

Celejar

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

celejar
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 19:05:47 -0400
Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 31 March 2020 18:24:30 deloptes wrote:
>
> > Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > You can conference through a server at jitsi.org, or you can
> > > download a jitsi package (a Debian package is available) which you
> > > can install on your own server and run with complete independence
> > > from jitsi.org.
> >
> > well, if you had the bandwidth.
> > 1:1 works @home, but conferencing needs a much better connection that
> > costs respectively
>
> Since many of us are on an adsl rated at 10 megabit now, fast enough to
> watch youtube etc, what would you estimate is the minimum upload
> bandwidth needed to take the pain for others away?

Here's a detailed analysis of this from the BigBlueButton FAQ -
different product, but some of the logic should carry over:

http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#what-are-the-bandwidth-requirements-for-running-a-bigbluebutton-server

Celejar

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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Russell L. Harris-2
In reply to this post by celejar
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 07:09:35PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
>Actually, *no* official Debian repository currently contains Jitsi. It
>was removed in 2017, apparently due to QA issues, although I don't know
>the whole story:

Perhaps the problem was nothing more than a conflict with another
package in the Debian distribution.  Besides, that was three years
ago.  And Jitsi has a Debian package which I have installed on Debian
9; it is running properly.  

>I spent some time today trying to find a libre alternative to Zoom,
>preferably one in the Debian repos, but came up empty. The closest I
>found were indeed Jitsi Meet (a part of the much larger Jitsi
>project)...

It appears to me that Jitsi has something for everyone.  With nothing
more than a headset and a camera (camera optional) you can conference
via WebRTC on Jitsi.  Are you concerned about bandwith?  Log in
and give it a try; it is free.  Or you can install Jitsi and run your own
server.  And Jitsi is open source.  What more could you ask?

>I'm actually puzzled by why there doesn't seem to be any easy, solid
>libre alternative to Zoom.

Jitsi is easy.  Do you have reason to say that the current release of
Jitsi is not "solid"?  And is Zoom worthy of consideration?

RLH


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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

Erwan David
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
Le 31/03/2020 à 22:27, [hidden email] a écrit :

> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 03:09:47PM -0500, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I second Zoom. You can install it via flatpak, which might make you feel better. I tried jitsi some time ago, I think that will require a bit more setup for sure.
>
> It's proprietary, right?
>
> -- t
>

And with many privacy concerns :
https://yro.slashdot.org/story/20/03/31/201237/zoom-is-leaking-peoples-email-addresses-and-photos-to-strangers

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/31/zoom-meeting-encryption/

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/20/03/28/0457212/doc-searls-zoom-needs-to-clean-up-its-privacy-act

That makes a lot of concerns

juh
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Re: Small Open Source Digital Classroom

juh
In reply to this post by celejar
Am 01.04.20 um 01:09 schrieb Celejar:
> I spend some time today trying to find a libre alternative to Zoom,
> preferably one in the Debian repos, but came up empty. The closest I
> found were indeed Jitsi Meet (a part of the much larger Jitsi project),
> and BigBlueButton, libre but designed to be installed on a Ubuntu
> system. I'm actually puzzled by why there doesn't seem to be any easy,
> solid libre alternative to Zoom.

My hosting cooperative Hostsharing runs BigBlueButton on Debian
machines. We recently made a stress test with 47 participants to see
what requirements are needed in reality.

BBB is running pretty stable on the server side. Participants should
have a decent internet connection as bandwith is paramount especially if
many participants stream video and audio.

We wrote a report about our test in German.

https://www.hostsharing.net/blog/2020/03/30/bigbluebutton-im-lasttest/

Use a translation server if you want to read it all but the figures
should be clear enough.

Don't feed the next big corp that spies on us. ;-)

juh

--
Software-Dokumentation mit Sphinx
Zweite überarbeitete Auflage (Sphinx 2.0)
https://www.amazon.de/dp/1793008779
Paperback: 282 Seiten

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