Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

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Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
Hello,

Actually, partman will even just refuse to setup partitions.

Indeed, installling Squeeze (without any task) via the network needs
460MiB free on /, so you don't really have room for swap.  Once the
.debs cleaned, you're still with 340MiB, while Lenny needed only 268MiB
for the same base system. You can't install Debian on a.g. a 512MiB
sheeva-plug unless disabling swap. Where the additional 72MiB disk usage
has gone?

Here are first the "Installed-Size" figures sorted from biggest size
increase to biggest size decrease. You can see here that the big culprit
is first of course the load of kernel drivers, but also grub, the
console keyboard/font, aptitude, bash (3.2->4.1), coreutils, the
installation of gettext-base which didn't happen in Lenny. These amount
to 40MiB increase. The remaining "Installed-Size" increase (18MiB) is
spread by <1MiB bits among other packages.

                          Lenny                                 Squeeze Squeeze-Lenny cumulated

linux-image-2.6.26-2-686  58576  linux-image-2.6.32-5-686       75916   17340         17340
Grub-stuff (grub,         1164   Grub-stuff (grub-pc,           7424    6260          23600
grub-common)                     grub-common, libfreetype6)
Console-stuff
(console-common,                 Console-stuff (console-setup,
console-data,             5104   console-terminus, xkb-data,    9944    4840          28440
console-tools,                   keyboard-configuration, kbd)
libconsole)
                                 discover-data                  3816    3816          32256
aptitude                  9648   aptitude                       12792   3144          35400
bash                      1104   bash                           3480    2376          37776
coreutils                 10032  coreutils                      12188   2156          39932
                                 gettext-base                   1000    1000          40932
locales                   11584  locales                        12576   992           41924
                                 pciutils                       880     880           42804
apt                       5108   apt                            5984    876           43680
udev                      808    udev                           1628    820           44500
groff-base                2504   groff-base                     3320    816           45316
                                 libsqlite3-0                   696     696           46012
diff                      744    diffutils                      1320    576           46588
util-linux                1624   util-linux                     2084    460           47048
wget                      1928   wget                           2312    384           47432
                                 libexpat1                      368     368           47800
                                 xz-utils                       360     360           48160
                                 libdiscover2                   332     332           48492
sed                       628    sed                            956     328           48820
                                 liblzma2                       308     308           49128
                                 insserv                        292     292           49420
libpam-runtime            952    libpam-runtime                 1244    292           49712
gnupg                     4892   gnupg                          5176    284           49996
man-db                    2580   man-db                         2856    276           50272
                                 ucf                            268     268           50540
                                 linux-base                     260     260           50800
                                 install-info                   256     256           51056
rsyslog                   480    rsyslog                        732     252           51308
libdb4.6                  1248   libdb4.8                       1488    240           51548
                                 dash                           224     224           51772
cpio                      676    cpio                           892     216           51988
findutils                 1512   findutils                      1708    196           52184
                                 libboost-iostreams1.42.0       192     192           52376
                                 libudev0                       192     192           52568
                                 dmsetup                        184     184           52752
                                 discover                       172     172           52924
perl-base                 4316   perl-base                      4488    172           53096
dhcp-stuff                1124   dhcp-stuff                     1288    164           53260
passwd                    2108   passwd                         2272    164           53424
libslang2                 1104   libslang2                      1264    160           53584
apt-utils                 420    apt-utils                      576     156           53740
tar                       2248   tar                            2392    144           53884
libnewt0.52               820    libnewt0.52                    960     140           54024
manpages                  972    manpages                       1112    140           54164
net-tools                 820    net-tools                      948     128           54292
bsdmainutils              608    bsdmainutils                   728     120           54412
                                 libpci3                        116     116           54528
                                 sensible-utils                 112     112           54640
debconf-i18n              1100   debconf-i18n                   1208    108           54748
libpam-modules            884    libpam-modules                 992     108           54856
gpgv                      300    gpgv                           396     96            54952
sysvinit-utils            172    sysvinit-utils                 260     88            55040
libblkid1                 124    libblkid1                      208     84            55124
libc6                     10776  Libc6 + libc-bin               10860   84            55208
ifupdown                  144    ifupdown                       224     80            55288
libdevmapper1.02.1        136    libdevmapper1.02.1             216     80            55368
                                 libuuid-perl                   80      80            55448
e2fsprogs                 1960   e2fsprogs                      2032    72            55520
                                 libnfnetlink0                  72      72            55592
libgcc1                   88     libgcc1                        156     68            55660
libselinux1               148    libselinux1                    216     68            55728
libtext-iconv-perl        44     libtext-iconv-perl             104     60            55788
debconf                   1508   debconf                        1564    56            55844
initramfs-tools           412    initramfs-tools                468     56            55900
iproute                   920    iproute                        976     56            55956
libtext-charwidth-perl    36     libtext-charwidth-perl         92      56            56012
libklibc                  88     libklibc                       140     52            56064
libsepol1                 252    libsepol1                      300     48            56112
module-init-tools         288    module-init-tools              332     44            56156
base-files                432    base-files                     472     40            56196
busybox                   436    busybox                        476     40            56236
info                      352    info                           392     40            56276
libacl1                   48     libacl1                        88      40            56316
libgdbm3                  80     libgdbm3                       120     40            56356
mount                     312    mount                          352     40            56396
gcc-4.2-base              140    gcc-4.4-base                   176     36            56432
libreadline5              320    libreadline6                   356     36            56468
libstdc++6                1168   libstdc++6                     1204    36            56504
nano                      1716   nano                           1752    36            56540
sysv-rc                   260    sysv-rc                        296     36            56576
klibc-utils               408    klibc-utils                    440     32            56608
libusb-0.1-4              64     libusb-0.1-4                   96      32            56640
zlib1g                    128    zlib1g                         160     32            56672
bsdutils                  164    bsdutils                       192     28            56700
libattr1                  36     libattr1                       64      28            56728
eject                     312    eject                          336     24            56752
ncurses-bin               480    ncurses-bin                    500     20            56772
e2fslibs                  284    e2fslibs                       300     16            56788
libncursesw5              624    libncursesw5                   640     16            56804
libpopt0                  192    libpopt0                       208     16            56820
acpid                     188    acpid                          200     12            56832
libpam0g                  232    libpam0g                       244     12            56844
iputils-ping              120    iputils-ping                   128     8             56852
libcomerr2                96     libcomerr2                     104     8             56860
libncurses5               584    libncurses5                    592     8             56868
libsigc++-2.0-0c2a        88     libsigc++-2.0-0c2a             96      8             56876
libss2                    104    libss2                         112     8             56884
logrotate                 92     logrotate                      100     8             56892
traceroute                168    traceroute                     176     8             56900
initscripts               388    initscripts                    392     4             56904
libbz2-1.0                124    libbz2-1.0                     128     4             56908
linux-image-2.6-686       32     linux-image-2.6-686            36      4             56912
mawk                      224    mawk                           228     4             56916
procps                    672    procps                         676     4             56920
tasksel                   900    tasksel                        904     4             56924
vim-tiny                  716    vim-tiny                       720     4             56928
whiptail                  96     whiptail                       100     4             56932
acpi                      88     acpi                           88      0             56932
debian-archive-keyring    64     debian-archive-keyring         64      0             56932
dmidecode                 168    dmidecode                      168     0             56932
hostname                  84     hostname                       84      0             56932
installation-report       108    installation-report            108     0             56932
laptop-detect             20     laptop-detect                  20      0             56932
liblocale-gettext-perl    104    liblocale-gettext-perl         104     0             56932
libtext-wrapi18n-perl     28     libtext-wrapi18n-perl          28      0             56932
libuuid1                  112    libuuid1                       112     0             56932
lsb-base                  72     lsb-base                       72      0             56932
netbase                   96     netbase                        96      0             56932
netcat-traditional        192    netcat-traditional             192     0             56932
acpi-support-base         88     acpi-support-base              84      -4            56928
base-passwd               184    base-passwd                    180     -4            56924
gzip                      284    gzip                           276     -8            56916
libssl0.9.8               6796   libssl0.9.8                    6788    -8            56908
libcwidget3               828    libcwidget3                    808     -20           56888
sysvinit                  276    sysvinit                       248     -28           56860
tasksel-data              1000   tasksel-data                   972     -28           56832
ncurses-base              484    ncurses-base                   448     -36           56796
readline-common           136    readline-common                92      -44           56752
debianutils               272    debianutils                    216     -56           56696
mktemp                    60                                            -60           56636
adduser                   944    adduser                        880     -64           56572
grep                      1180   grep                           1116    -64           56508
tzdata                    6344   tzdata                         6272    -72           56436
ed                        96                                            -96           56340
libwrap0                  96                                            -96           56244
iptables                  1228   iptables                       1120    -108          56136
update-inetd              120                                           -120          56016
lzma                      124                                           -124          55892
libvolume-id0             140                                           -140          55752
makedev                   148                                           -148          55604
libc6-i686                2796   libc6-i686                     2640    -156          55448
gcc-4.3-base              160                                           -160          55288
vim-common                540    vim-common                     364     -176          55112
cron                      540    cron                           336     -204          54908
tcpd                      212                                           -212          54696
login                     2392   login                          1956    -436          54260
usbutils                  580                                           -580          53680
dpkg                      7272   dpkg                           6432    -840          52840
Libxapian15 + libept0     5568   Libxapian22 + libept1          4608    -960          51880
                          211620                                263500  51880          
                                                                                       

Now, there's also some generated stuff.  The mere list of packages in
apt uses an additional ~20MiB.  And initrd got bigger too.

                          Lenny  Squeeze Squeeze-Lenny
/var/lib/apt/lists        36000  47500   11500          
/var/cache/apt            19000  27000   8000           
/var/cache/debconf        2100   2100    0              
initrd.img                6100   8470    2370           
                          63200  85070   21870

Another interesting view of all this increase is through the filesystem:

                          Lenny  Squeeze Squeeze-Lenny
/lib/modules              57640  75428   17788          
/usr/share                81584  98344   16760         (notably +6M locales, +2M doc, +3M xkbdata, +2M grub)
/var/lib                  46080  59748   13668         (mostly apt/lists)
/var/cache                21868  29804   7936          (mostly apt)
/boot                     8756   13932   5176           
/lib (except modules)     9276   14096   4820          (notably 3.6M discover)
/usr/bin                  13568  17104   3536           
/usr/lib                  27916  29140   1224           
/bin                      4120   4868    748            
/sbin                     3348   3664    316            
/etc                      1296   1572    276            
/usr/sbin                 2120   2324    204            
/var/log                  876    960     84             

There's a part of the increase which we probably want to afford (new
drivers, locales, doc, keyboard support), something like ~30MiB.

The apt cache increase (~20MiB) is merely due to more packages available
(28000)

The rest (~22MiB) is just bigger software.

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
I forgot to mention other tasks as well:

- Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
  (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?, and since openssh-client recommends
  xauth, x11 stuff gets installed)

- Gnome         grew from 1830MiB to 2689MiB
- KDE           grew from 1592MiB to 2119MiB
- Xfce          grew from 1056MiB to 1771MiB
- LXDE          grew from  963MiB to 1546MiB
- Web           grew from   42MiB to  121MiB
- Print         grew from  215MiB to  427MiB
  (gutenprint and such grew quite a bit, but all kinds of X11 stuff also
  gets dragged because pnm2ppa depends on gs provided by ghostscript-x,
  shouldn't perhaps pnm2ppa depend on ghostscript only?)
- DNS           grew from    3MiB to   51MiB
  (perl needed for dlint)
- File          grew from   74MiB to  165MiB
  (Samba grew quite a bit, perl needed for netatalk)
- Mail          grew from   14MiB to  125MiB
  (spamassasin recommends libc6-dev/gcc/make, and thus all their
  recommends & such for sa-compile)
- SQL           grew from   50MiB to  103MiB
  (perl needed for sgml-base, recommended by libxml2)
- Laptop        grew from   26MiB to  237MiB
  (bluez-cups (and thus cups) recommended by bluetooth)

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Lennart Sorensen
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 06:00:16PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> I forgot to mention other tasks as well:
>
> - Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
>   (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?, and since openssh-client recommends
>   xauth, x11 stuff gets installed)
>
> - Gnome         grew from 1830MiB to 2689MiB
> - KDE           grew from 1592MiB to 2119MiB
> - Xfce          grew from 1056MiB to 1771MiB
> - LXDE          grew from  963MiB to 1546MiB
> - Web           grew from   42MiB to  121MiB
> - Print         grew from  215MiB to  427MiB
>   (gutenprint and such grew quite a bit, but all kinds of X11 stuff also
>   gets dragged because pnm2ppa depends on gs provided by ghostscript-x,
>   shouldn't perhaps pnm2ppa depend on ghostscript only?)
> - DNS           grew from    3MiB to   51MiB
>   (perl needed for dlint)
> - File          grew from   74MiB to  165MiB
>   (Samba grew quite a bit, perl needed for netatalk)

Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?  Who uses that
anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at boot (or at
least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a decade has any
need for it.

> - Mail          grew from   14MiB to  125MiB
>   (spamassasin recommends libc6-dev/gcc/make, and thus all their
>   recommends & such for sa-compile)
> - SQL           grew from   50MiB to  103MiB
>   (perl needed for sgml-base, recommended by libxml2)
> - Laptop        grew from   26MiB to  237MiB
>   (bluez-cups (and thus cups) recommended by bluetooth)

Did Lenny install recommends by default?  I believe Squeeze does for sure.

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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Sven Joachim
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
On 2010-10-27 17:20 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> /lib (except modules)     9276   14096   4820          (notably 3.6M discover)

Why does discover get installed?  It is not particularly useful these
days, and I don't see anything in your list that would pull it in.

Sven


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
Lennart Sorensen, le Wed 27 Oct 2010 12:11:32 -0400, a écrit :
> > - File          grew from   74MiB to  165MiB
> >   (Samba grew quite a bit, perl needed for netatalk)
>
> Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?

It's still there since 2001, yes.

> Who uses that anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at
> boot (or at least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a
> decade has any need for it.

That can probably be turned into a bug against tasksel :)

> > - Mail          grew from   14MiB to  125MiB
> >   (spamassasin recommends libc6-dev/gcc/make, and thus all their
> >   recommends & such for sa-compile)
> > - SQL           grew from   50MiB to  103MiB
> >   (perl needed for sgml-base, recommended by libxml2)
> > - Laptop        grew from   26MiB to  237MiB
> >   (bluez-cups (and thus cups) recommended by bluetooth)
>
> Did Lenny install recommends by default?  I believe Squeeze does for sure.

Lenny didn't, that's the biggest difference indeed.

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Joey Hess
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?  Who uses that
> anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at boot (or at
> least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a decade has any
> need for it.

Yeah, I have to assume that the huge popcon numbers (1/4th of all
submitters!) is due to it starting at boot, not being used.

Removed, although since perl is standard anyway, having file-server pull
it in was unlikely to really bloat many systems.

> Did Lenny install recommends by default?  I believe Squeeze does for sure.

No && yes. More review and squashing of unnecessary recommends to get
the tasks' size down would be helpful.

--
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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
In reply to this post by Sven Joachim
Sven Joachim, le Wed 27 Oct 2010 18:16:43 +0200, a écrit :
> On 2010-10-27 17:20 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > /lib (except modules)     9276   14096   4820          (notably 3.6M discover)
>
> Why does discover get installed?  It is not particularly useful these
> days, and I don't see anything in your list that would pull it in.

The hw-detect udeb installs it, see #577451.

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Mike Hommey
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:11:32PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 06:00:16PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > I forgot to mention other tasks as well:
> >
> > - Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
> >   (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?, and since openssh-client recommends
> >   xauth, x11 stuff gets installed)
> >
> > - Gnome         grew from 1830MiB to 2689MiB
> > - KDE           grew from 1592MiB to 2119MiB
> > - Xfce          grew from 1056MiB to 1771MiB
> > - LXDE          grew from  963MiB to 1546MiB
> > - Web           grew from   42MiB to  121MiB
> > - Print         grew from  215MiB to  427MiB
> >   (gutenprint and such grew quite a bit, but all kinds of X11 stuff also
> >   gets dragged because pnm2ppa depends on gs provided by ghostscript-x,
> >   shouldn't perhaps pnm2ppa depend on ghostscript only?)
> > - DNS           grew from    3MiB to   51MiB
> >   (perl needed for dlint)
> > - File          grew from   74MiB to  165MiB
> >   (Samba grew quite a bit, perl needed for netatalk)
>
> Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?  Who uses that
> anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at boot (or at
> least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a decade has any
> need for it.

FWIW, it's what worked best when I set up Time Machine over the network.

Mike


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Lennart Sorensen
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 06:36:35PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> FWIW, it's what worked best when I set up Time Machine over the network.

Well I must admit that I consider the file server task totally useless.
Who really wants IPX, netatalk, samba, nfs, and who knows what else on
the same server?

Never mind the garbage the web server task installs that I sure wouldn't
want on any web server I run.

The only tasks I consider useful ever are desktop and ssh server.
The rest are too full of crap.  It is easier to install what I need than
to clean up after the tasks.

--
Len Sorensen


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
In reply to this post by Joey Hess
Joey Hess, le Wed 27 Oct 2010 12:27:56 -0400, a écrit :
> Yeah, I have to assume that the huge popcon numbers (1/4th of all
> submitters!) is due to it starting at boot, not being used.
>
> Removed, although since perl is standard anyway,

Note the difference between perl and perl-base.
netatalk is however not the only package pulling perl indeed, it's also
pulled by samba->update-inetd->libfile-copy-recursive-perl->perl

> > Did Lenny install recommends by default?  I believe Squeeze does for sure.
>
> No && yes. More review and squashing of unnecessary recommends to get
> the tasks' size down would be helpful.

Note: to do so, simply install Squeeze with no task at all, then at
reboot run

tasksel --new-install

and in addition to selecting one task, select "manual package
selection", you'll get an aptitude instance where you can check the
pulling deps. Use Ctrl-T, "Cancel pending action", Q, Yes, to abort and
try something else.

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Joey Hess
Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Removed, although since perl is standard anyway,
>
> Note the difference between perl and perl-base.

perl is standard, so unless the user explicitly de-selects standard
system, while selecting file-server, they'd be getting perl anyway.

--
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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Florian Weimer
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
* Samuel Thibault:

> - Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
>   (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?,

I suspect that this is caused primarily by API and ABI
incompatibility, and in part by the lack of response to bug reports
from upstream.  Everybody who uses Berkeley DB extensively has once
been bitten by a regression.  Often, people outside Sleepycat and
Oracle couldn't fix those bugs in a timely fashion, so the affected
people stay on the version which works for them.  Even upon request,
Oracle does not provide individual patches for bug fixes which have
been applied to subsequent major version.  Their source repository is
totally private, too (if they use version control at all).

On top of that, while there is an environment migration strategy, it
requires a lot of boilerplate code that is hard to get completely
right.  Few applications provide it, so you end up with risky manual
migration procedures and user-visible disk format incompatible.  The
actual data format is extremely stable, except for the DB_HASH format,
which was inferior to DB_BTREE in pre-4.5 (I think) release.  However,
for reasons I don't completely understand, almost all scripting
language bindings for Berkeley DB defaulted to DB_HASH, so we end up
with plenty of pointless disk-format incompatibility, in potentially
large files containing user data where it really, really hurts.

I guess that for most users of Berkeley DB, SQLite would be a better
fit: thread-safe and NFS-safe by default, automatic crash recovery, a
simple API with a stable API and ABI, a commitment to disk format
compatibility, no predetermined limits on transaction size, and the
ability to browse the database using third-party tools.  In the
multiple writers case, SQLite cannot compete with Berkeley DB running
in the Transactional Data Store mode, and it lacks built-in
replication, but how many libdb4.x reverse dependencies set *that* up
correctly?


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Bernd Zeimetz
In reply to this post by Lennart Sorensen
On 10/27/2010 06:11 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Is netatalk STILL included in the file server task?  Who uses that
> anymore?  The thing takes almost 2 minutes to start at boot (or at
> least if feels like it) and probably no Mac made in a decade has any
> need for it.

It needs two minutes to start only if you don't configure it properly. But yes,
it should go imho.

--
 Bernd Zeimetz                            Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 http://bzed.de                                http://www.debian.org
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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Bernd Zeimetz
In reply to this post by Mike Hommey
On 10/27/2010 06:36 PM, Mike Hommey wrote:
> FWIW, it's what worked best when I set up Time Machine over the network.

That sounds like they're using CNIDs then... Indeed netatalk is the only way to
get such things done properly.

--
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 http://bzed.de                                http://www.debian.org
 GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485  DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Neil Williams-4
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:20:56 +0200
Samuel Thibault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Indeed, installling Squeeze (without any task) via the network needs
> 460MiB free on /, so you don't really have room for swap.  Once the
> .debs cleaned, you're still with 340MiB, while Lenny needed only 268MiB
> for the same base system. You can't install Debian on a.g. a 512MiB
> sheeva-plug unless disabling swap.

Try Emdebian Grip and consider using multistrap to install so that the
packages can be cleaned out before creating a tarball which is then
unpacked onto the final system. Emdebian Grip packages are smaller than
Debian ones but still binary compatible.

http://www.emdebian.org/grip
http://www.emdebian.org/multistrap

Wherever storage space is the principle limitation, please look at
using Embedded Debian rather than full sized Debian.

>
> Another interesting view of all this increase is through the filesystem:
>
>                           Lenny  Squeeze Squeeze-Lenny
> /lib/modules              57640  75428   17788          
> /usr/share                81584  98344   16760         (notably +6M locales, +2M doc,

If you want to trim that down, you should *definitely* use Emdebian
where the packages themselves have this content already trimmed out.

> The apt cache increase (~20MiB) is merely due to more packages available
> (28000)

Emdebian Grip also reduces the apt cache size because we simply have
fewer packages - concentrating on the base system and things you're
likely to want on devices like this.

--


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Samuel Thibault-8
Neil Williams, le Fri 29 Oct 2010 09:57:23 +0100, a écrit :
> Samuel Thibault <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Indeed, installling Squeeze (without any task) via the network needs
> > 460MiB free on /, so you don't really have room for swap.  Once the
> > .debs cleaned, you're still with 340MiB, while Lenny needed only 268MiB
> > for the same base system. You can't install Debian on a.g. a 512MiB
> > sheeva-plug unless disabling swap.
>
> Try Emdebian Grip

Well, it's a shame that 512MiB now has to be called "embedded".

Samuel


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Julien Cristau-6
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 18:29:19 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> Sven Joachim, le Wed 27 Oct 2010 18:16:43 +0200, a écrit :
> > On 2010-10-27 17:20 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > /lib (except modules)     9276   14096   4820          (notably 3.6M discover)
> >
> > Why does discover get installed?  It is not particularly useful these
> > days, and I don't see anything in your list that would pull it in.
>
> The hw-detect udeb installs it, see #577451.
>
So instead of detecting the hw and installing needed packages based on
that, hw-detect bloats the system with another package to detect hw?
This sounds suboptimal (by which I mean, wrong).

Cheers,
Julien

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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Julien Cristau-6
In reply to this post by Samuel Thibault-8
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 18:00:16 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

> I forgot to mention other tasks as well:
>
> - Base+Standard grew from 397MiB to 491MiB
>   (we install libdb4.{5,6,7,8} !?, and since openssh-client recommends
>   xauth, x11 stuff gets installed)
>
fwiw db4.5 is (finally) out of squeeze.  That still leaves the other
three, but...

Cheers,
Julien

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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Adam Borowski-3
In reply to this post by Neil Williams-4
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 09:57:23AM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:20:56 +0200
> Samuel Thibault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Indeed, installling Squeeze (without any task) needs 460MiB
>
> If you want to trim that down, you should *definitely* use Emdebian
> where the packages themselves have this content already trimmed out.

Or, for a less drastic solution, use localepurge.  Losing the docs is a
significant loss, you don't want to suffer that unless your machine is a
really small dinky gadget.  This is a part of the damage Nokia inflicted on
n900 even though it would be a tiny part of that 32GB disk.

I really wonder why you still need to install "locales" to get UTF-8.  Even
in current glibc, it's a second class citizen.  Several years ago, I
benchmarked a mockup of hard-coding UTF-8 the way ISO-8859-1 and KOI8-R were
done in the past, and it shaved 20% of the whole
fork-exec-ld-setlocale-getopt-...-exit sequence almost every program does.
The character classification tables are needlessly duplicated for every
locale as well -- try an ISO-8859-1 and look at iswfoo() for chars >0xFF,
even though there's a separate copy per locale, for all but C and POSIX it's
identical.

--
1KB // Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
                // Never attribute to stupidity what can be
                // adequately explained by malice.


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Re: Squeeze can't fit on 512MiB

Mike Hommey
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:36:59AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 09:57:23AM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:20:56 +0200
> > Samuel Thibault <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed, installling Squeeze (without any task) needs 460MiB
> >
> > If you want to trim that down, you should *definitely* use Emdebian
> > where the packages themselves have this content already trimmed out.
>
> Or, for a less drastic solution, use localepurge.  Losing the docs is a
> significant loss, you don't want to suffer that unless your machine is a
> really small dinky gadget.  This is a part of the damage Nokia inflicted on
> n900 even though it would be a tiny part of that 32GB disk.

Or, we could finally get dpkg to not install files matching some
patterns. That would also help those who don't need the 1GB+ from
linux-image-$(uname -r)-dbg to use systemtap.

Mike


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