Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

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Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Bagas Sanjaya
Hello,

Recently I stumble upon Transity [https://github.com/feramhq/transity],
a plain-text accounting system a la (H)Ledger.

However, when I saw the README, it says:

> Transity is licensed under GPL-3.0-or-later and can be used free of charge at non-profits and for evaluation. For long-term usage, however, please make sure to purchase a license at [link redacted].

Is it acceptable for inclusion into Debian main, given the condition above?

Bagas

--
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Mihai Moldovan
* On 12/20/19 9:59 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Recently I stumble upon Transity [https://github.com/feramhq/transity],
> a plain-text accounting system a la (H)Ledger.
>
> However, when I saw the README, it says:
>
>> Transity is licensed under GPL-3.0-or-later and can be used free of charge at non-profits and for evaluation. For long-term usage, however, please make sure to purchase a license at [link redacted].
>
> Is it acceptable for inclusion into Debian main, given the condition above?

It seems like that it would roughly correspond to something like "please
donate". Not binding, but a mere request.

Not problematic in my opinion.



Mihai


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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Bagas Sanjaya
But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be used
freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
(one must purchase license) for commercial use.

So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?

On 20/12/19 16.21, Mihai Moldovan wrote:

> * On 12/20/19 9:59 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>> Recently I stumble upon Transity [https://github.com/feramhq/transity],
>> a plain-text accounting system a la (H)Ledger.
>>
>> However, when I saw the README, it says:
>>
>>> Transity is licensed under GPL-3.0-or-later and can be used free of charge at non-profits and for evaluation. For long-term usage, however, please make sure to purchase a license at [link redacted].
>>
>> Is it acceptable for inclusion into Debian main, given the condition above?
>
> It seems like that it would roughly correspond to something like "please
> donate". Not binding, but a mere request.
>
> Not problematic in my opinion.
>
>
>
> Mihai
>

--
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Andrej Shadura-2
Hi,

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:48, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be used
> freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
> (one must purchase license) for commercial use.
>
> So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?

The GPL doesn’t allow any further restrictions.

--
Cheers,
  Andrej

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Bagas Sanjaya
So is it DFSG-Free and can be included in Debian main?

On 20/12/19 17.05, Andrej Shadura wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:48, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be used
>> freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
>> (one must purchase license) for commercial use.
>>
>> So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?
>
> The GPL doesn’t allow any further restrictions.
>

--
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Andrej Shadura-2
Hi,

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 11:42 Bagas Sanjaya, <[hidden email]> wrote:
So is it DFSG-Free and can be included in Debian main?

On 20/12/19 17.05, Andrej Shadura wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:48, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be used
>> freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
>> (one must purchase license) for commercial use.
>>
>> So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?
>
> The GPL doesn’t allow any further restrictions.

You can try, the FTP masters will decide.

-- 
Cheers,
  Andrej
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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Bagas Sanjaya
How can I contact FTP masters team for asking this issue? I prefer not
via IRC.

On 20/12/19 17.43, Andrej Shadura wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 11:42 Bagas Sanjaya, <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     So is it DFSG-Free and can be included in Debian main?
>
>     On 20/12/19 17.05, Andrej Shadura wrote:
>      > Hi,
>      >
>      > On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:48, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be
>     used
>      >> freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
>      >> (one must purchase license) for commercial use.
>      >>
>      >> So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?
>      >
>      > The GPL doesn’t allow any further restrictions.
>
>
> You can try, the FTP masters will decide.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>    Andrej
>

--
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Roberto
In reply to this post by Bagas Sanjaya
There was a similar case with LinuxSampler a few years ago, restricting
*use* of the program in commercial applications. It was removed from
Debian and it was concluded that its license is inconsistent, nobody can
actually comply with it, because the GPL and the added restriction
contradict each other. It was also rejected from non-free
(undistributable software).

https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2005/09/msg00271.html

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Daniel Hakimi
So I agree that the language, as worded, seems like it might not be binding... But it at least reflects a contradictory intent, if not a hard contradiction. The licensors are certainly confused. Has somebody tried contacting them to clarify their intent?

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 06:44 Roberto <[hidden email]> wrote:
There was a similar case with LinuxSampler a few years ago, restricting
*use* of the program in commercial applications. It was removed from
Debian and it was concluded that its license is inconsistent, nobody can
actually comply with it, because the GPL and the added restriction
contradict each other. It was also rejected from non-free
(undistributable software).

https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2005/09/msg00271.html

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Joerg Jaspert
In reply to this post by Bagas Sanjaya
On 15622 March 1977, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:

> Recently I stumble upon Transity [https://github.com/feramhq/transity],
> a plain-text accounting system a la (H)Ledger.
> However, when I saw the README, it says:
>> Transity is licensed under GPL-3.0-or-later and can be used free of charge
>> at non-profits and for evaluation. For long-term usage, however, please
>> make sure to purchase a license at [link redacted].
> Is it acceptable for inclusion into Debian main, given the condition above?

Please contact upstream and let them clarify this. If their intent is

"It's GPL, it would be nice BUT NOT AT ALL REQUIRED that long-term users
get a license"

then it is ok. Could be worded clearer then what they did, but if its
just a wish, its ok.

If their intent is

"It's GPL, but only for non-profit and evaluation, long-term usage has
to get a license"

then it is not ok for Debian as that does not work with the chosen
license.

And until they clarify, it is safer to go with the bad interpretation
and keep it out of Debian.

--
bye, Joerg

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Eriberto
In reply to this post by Bagas Sanjaya


Em sexta-feira, 20 de dezembro de 2019, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]> escreveu:

Transity is licensed under GPL-3.0-or-later and can be used free of charge at non-profits and for evaluation. For long-term usage, however, please make sure to purchase a license at [link redacted].


IMO it is not DFSG compatible. Sounds like GPL-3+ and my own terms. However these terms are not compliant with GPL and there are restrictions to usage. 

Regards, 

Eriberto 

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Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Florian Weimer
In reply to this post by Andrej Shadura-2
* Andrej Shadura:

> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:48, Bagas Sanjaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> But again I say that this program is GPL-licensed, but it can be used
>> freely (of charge) for non commercial purposes only, but proprietary
>> (one must purchase license) for commercial use.
>>
>> So I think this could violate DFSG #6, right?
>
> The GPL doesn’t allow any further restrictions.

The copyright owner can make any declaration they want, including an
inconsistent one.  Often, that makes the software non-redistributable
in Debian's eyes.  In other cases, the declaration that commercial use
requires a support subscription is phrased in such a way that it is
clear that it is a mere marketing claim and not a legal requirement
(MySQL AB's statements before the Sun acquisition probably fall into
this latter cateogry).

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Re: Re: Transity: GPL-licensed but Free only for Non-Commercials

Bagas Sanjaya
In reply to this post by Joerg Jaspert
Actually the redacted link [https://cliapp.store/apps/transity/] says it
is paid product.

So in this case the bad intent you mentioned apply.

--
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara