Using MATE's workspaces effectively

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Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.

What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
applications available in each workspace.

Currently all workspaces have icons to access _identical sets_ of
applications.

For example one might have one workspace having a set of tools for
writing/debugging software, another with a set of tools for researching
Mesopotamian Architecture, and one focused on creating a weekly blog
discussing advances in fly fishing.

I chose disparate sets too convey an idea I couldn't describe well.
Is there a more appropriate tool that maintains the "look and feel" of
the MATE desktop? Comments?
TIA


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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

songbird
Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>
> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
> applications available in each workspace.
...

  under System->Preferences->Personal->Options make sure
you have checked the box for automatically remembering
started applications.

  then, set up your workspaces and when you turn off the
machine use System->Shutdown->Shutdown and it should remember
all of your open windows and where they were located.

  works for me...


  songbird

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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
On 02/16/2018 10:53 AM, songbird wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>>
>> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
>> applications available in each workspace.
> ...
>
>    under System->Preferences->Personal->Options make sure
> you have checked the box for automatically remembering
> started applications.
>
>    then, set up your workspaces and when you turn off the
> machine use System->Shutdown->Shutdown and it should remember
> all of your open windows and where they were located.
>
>    works for me...

That's not quite what I'm trying to accomplish.
When I shut down the machine for the day I want to exit all apps.
I currently get pretty much that. If an application has modified a file
but not saved it, I'm prompted for instructions.


What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
available in each workspace.

Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
applications.

I wish each workspace to have a set of tools applicable for a specific
project.

For example:
Workspace 1 devoted to programming would have a programmer's text
editor, compile/link/load utilities, and an IDE.
Workspace 2 devoted to a dissertation on Mesopotamian Architecture
would have a word processor, note taking software, an outlining utility,
and a link to a browser to bring up the university's online catalog.
Workspace 3 devoted to a fishing blog would have web authoring tools.



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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

songbird
Richard Owlett wrote:
...
> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
> available in each workspace.

  i understood you the first time you wrote that.


> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
> applications.

  something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.

  do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
"Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
at the bottom of the screen...]

  i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
as you had them when you did shutdown.

  my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
opened next time.

  when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
desired.


  songbird

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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Cindy Sue Causey
On 2/16/18, songbird <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
> ...
>> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
>> available in each workspace.
>
>   i understood you the first time you wrote that.
>
>
>> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
>> applications.
>
>   something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
> my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.
>
>   do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
> "Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
> at the bottom of the screen...]
>
>   i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
> need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
> don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
> as you had them when you did shutdown.
>
>   my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
> command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
> opened next time.
>
>   when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
> the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
> desired.


What about a new personalized "panel"?

Cindy.....
--
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by songbird
On 02/16/2018 02:51 PM, songbird wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
> ...
>> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
>> available in each workspace.
>
>    i understood you the first time you wrote that.

<groan> and/or <grin>
I beg to differ ;<

In my initial post I attempted to describe what I wanted.
In my last post I gave a concrete {even if contrived} example of goal.

This time I'll borrow from set theory.
*CAVEAT LECTOR* Last time I saw set theory was in <Logic 101 "An
Introduction to Logic"> circa 1962.
>> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
>> applications.

This may be crux of issue.
I used "set" in the set theory sense.
I said *nothing" about what was open anywhere/anywhen.
IOW
WORKSPACE1's desktop displays only launch icons from SETalpha
WORKSPACE2's desktop displays launch icons from SETbeta and SETgamma
WORKSPACE3's desktop displays only launch icons from the intersection of
SETomicron and SETzeta



>
>    something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
> my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.
>
>    do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
> "Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
> at the bottom of the screen...]
>
>    i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
> need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
> don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
> as you had them when you did shutdown.
>
>    my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
> command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
> opened next time.
>
>    when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
> the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
> desired.
>
>
>    songbird
>
>


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Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Cindy Sue Causey
On 02/16/2018 03:41 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> On 2/16/18, songbird <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> ...
>>> What I would like would be to have differing sets of applications
>>> available in each workspace.
>>
>>    i understood you the first time you wrote that.
>>
>>
>>> Currently all workspaces have icons to access *_identical sets_* of
>>> applications.
>>
>>    something is set to do that then, because i can set all of
>> my workspaces with different applications open in each of them.
>>
>>    do you have "Always on Visible Workspace" set instead of
>> "Only on this Workspace"?  [right click on window or on item
>> at the bottom of the screen...]
>>
>>    i never shutdown without checking all desktops for things that
>> need to be saved.  but more importantly remember that if you
>> don't use shutdown after the first time it will restart them all
>> as you had them when you did shutdown.
>>
>>    my normal end of session routine is to use the "shutdown -h now"
>> command as root which kills everything and does not alter what is
>> opened next time.
>>
>>    when i want to make changes to my desktops then i do use
>> the menu shutdown and that then records the changes as
>> desired.
>
>
> What about a new personalized "panel"?
>
> Cindy.....
>

If PANELa was visible only in WORKSPACE1
AND
IF PANELb was visible only in WORKSPACE2

That might be even a better solution -- leaving things you *ALWAYS* want
available to reside on desktop.

How?
TIA


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[likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On 02/16/2018 06:32 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>
> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
> applications available in each workspace.
>
> Currently all workspaces have icons to access _identical sets_ of
> applications.
>
> For example one might have one workspace having a set of tools for
> writing/debugging software, another with a set of tools for researching
> Mesopotamian Architecture, and one focused on creating a weekly blog
> discussing advances in fly fishing.
>
> I chose disparate sets too convey an idea I couldn't describe well.
> Is there a more appropriate tool that maintains the "look and feel" of
> the MATE desktop? Comments?
> TIA

Doing a web search I found 2 references suggesting what I want can't be
done:

<https://www.datamation.com/open-source/linux-virtual-workspaces-how-do-they-differ.html>
> Workspaces in Mate can be individually named, but they share the same wallpaper and
> desktop icons with each other.

<https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/181911/in-mate-how-do-i-get-different-panels-per-workspace>
post of "Jan 30 '15" asked:> I'm running MATE 1.8 in Linux Mint 17
Qiana. I have three workspaces set up,
> and panels at the top and bottom of the screen. I have a bunch of items in the
> top panels that launch various applications and documents etc.
>
> Is it possible to get the set of items to differ per-workspace, by having either
> panels or items in them only show up in particular workspaces?
There has not yet been a response.

Both are good descriptions of what I want.
If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
will accomplish my goal?
TIA








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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Curt
On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
> will accomplish my goal?
> TIA
>

Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:

 The classic Linux desktop -- a workspace, a panel, and a menu --
 remains the most popular design for a graphical interface.
 Unfortunately, however, modern computers include too many applications
 to fit on a single desktop. Many users respond by launching
 applications from the menu, often drilling down several levels and
 sometimes even relying on incomplete menus to reduce clutter. However,
 KDE offers a more elegant solution in Activities, or multiple desktops,
 each with its own set of icons.

 ...

 Usually, however virtual workspaces are sub-divisions of a desktop,
 extending workspace without the trouble of setting up multiple
 monitors. Using virtual desktops, for example, you can keep your
 browser or email reader open full-screen all the time.

 By contrast, Activities are usually organized by tasks or project. By
 setting up different Activities, you can place all the necessary
 resources for a task or project in the workspace, a single click away.
 In effect, they make the classic desktop practical again.

https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html

--
When its 100 degrees in New York, its 78 in Los Angeles. When its 10
degrees in New York, its 78 in Los Angeles. There are two million
interesting people in New York. There are 78 in Los Angeles. --Neil Simon


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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Cindy Sue Causey
On 2/17/18, Curt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
>> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
>> will accomplish my goal?
>> TIA
>>
>
> Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
>
>  The classic Linux desktop -- a workspace, a panel, and a menu --
>  remains the most popular design for a graphical interface.
>  Unfortunately, however, modern computers include too many applications
>  to fit on a single desktop. Many users respond by launching
>  applications from the menu, often drilling down several levels and
>  sometimes even relying on incomplete menus to reduce clutter. However,
>  KDE offers a more elegant solution in Activities, or multiple desktops,
>  each with its own set of icons.
>
>  ...
>
>  Usually, however virtual workspaces are sub-divisions of a desktop,
>  extending workspace without the trouble of setting up multiple
>  monitors. Using virtual desktops, for example, you can keep your
>  browser or email reader open full-screen all the time.
>
>  By contrast, Activities are usually organized by tasks or project. By
>  setting up different Activities, you can place all the necessary
>  resources for a task or project in the workspace, a single click away.
>  In effect, they make the classic desktop practical again.
>
> https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html


After I mentioned panel last night, I realized that all that would do
is... carry over the same between workspaces, too. Just popping in now
to wonder out loud if maybe it might someday be possible to script
something that is triggered by an active Workspace 1, Workspace 2,
etc.

As I proofread that tiny little bit, it further occurs to me that
there surely must be some way to do that. The packages that we scooch
around between workspaces have to be cluing in on something to know
that they are to stay put over there instead of right here in front of
us... unless their workspace is the one currently being viewed...
right here in front of us.

Cindy :)
--
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Curt
On 02/17/2018 04:25 AM, Curt wrote:

> On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
>> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
>> will accomplish my goal?
>> TIA
>>
>
> Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
> [snip summary of]
> https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html

Yes, very closely. Its  links to
 
<https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>,
 
<https://www.datamation.com/open-source/what-makes-a-classic-linux-desktop-classic-1.html>,
and
   <https://www.maketecheasier.com/use-kde-plasma-activities/>
are also valuable.

Asking on a local users group led to
   <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration>
and <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System>
which outlines what has to happen behind the scenes to have the
user experience I want.

There is reading/re-reading in my future.
Thank you.



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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Cindy Sue Causey
On 02/17/2018 05:11 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> On 2/17/18, Curt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-17, Richard Owlett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
>>> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
>>> will accomplish my goal?
>>> TIA
>>>
>>
>> Maybe KDE "activities" matches your desires:
>>[snip
>> https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html

That describes a solution.
See my reply to Curt for more details.

>
>
> After I mentioned panel last night, I realized that all that would do
> is... carry over the same between workspaces, too. Just popping in now
> to wonder out loud if maybe it might someday be possible to script
> something that is triggered by an active Workspace 1, Workspace 2,
> etc.
>
> As I proofread that tiny little bit, it further occurs to me that
> there surely must be some way to do that. The packages that we scooch
> around between workspaces have to be cluing in on something to know
> that they are to stay put over there instead of right here in front of
> us... unless their workspace is the one currently being viewed...
> right here in front of us.
>
> Cindy :)
>


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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

rhkramer
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:33:01 PM Richard Owlett wrote:
> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
> will accomplish my goal?
> TIA

As long as we are talking about icons on the desktop (instead of, for example,
menu items on the toolbar) I believe you can do it in kde (as in kde4 on
Wheezy).  I don't do it, but I just did a quick experiment--I put an icon on
one desktop, I might have selected some sort of option (what can I say, I'm
getting old and I have a headache--my short term memory is sometimes very bad)
and it now appears on only one of my 8 desktops.

If you are seriously interested in trying kde, let me know, and I'll
experiment a little more and give you more detailed instructions.

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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

John Hasler-3
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>
> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
> applications available in each workspace.

This can be done with FVWM.  I start it up four desks (similar, I think,
to MATE's workspaces) each with 16 panes (you can have as many or as few
as you want on each desktop).  Each desk can start a different set of
applications.  I don't use it the way you want to (for one thing I
despise icons) but there is no reason it could not do exactly what you
want.  Windows can be made "sticky" so that they "stick to the glass"
and follow you around.  Thus you could have a set of icons that are
always visible and other sets that only show up on one desktop.

Of course, this does mean you have to learn to configure FVWM.
--
John Hasler
[hidden email]
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by rhkramer
On 02/17/2018 07:17 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:33:01 PM Richard Owlett wrote:
>> Both are good descriptions of what I want.
>> If it cannot be done in MATE, is there another desktop or approach that
>> will accomplish my goal?
>> TIA
>
> As long as we are talking about icons on the desktop (instead of, for example,
> menu items on the toolbar) I believe you can do it in kde (as in kde4 on
> Wheezy).  I don't do it, but I just did a quick experiment--I put an icon on
> one desktop, I might have selected some sort of option (what can I say, I'm
> getting old and I have a headache--my short term memory is sometimes very bad)
> and it now appears on only one of my 8 desktops.
>
> If you are seriously interested in trying kde, let me know, and I'll
> experiment a little more and give you more detailed instructions.
>
>

Curt referred me to
<https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
which, in combination with linked pages, gives a good description of
what I want.

I have a spare machine and and a complete set of Debian 9 DVD's for a
test install. It's supposed to be cold and/or wet for next week. I'll
have time.



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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by John Hasler-3
On 02/17/2018 07:42 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I have no problem with different applications being open in each workspace.
>>
>> What I would like would be to be able to do is have differing sets of
>> applications available in each workspace.
>
> This can be done with FVWM.

A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.
I'll initially experiment with KDE.
Is there a recommended site that gives a good description of why and how
one would use it {similar to what
<https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
does for KDE}?



> I start it up four desks (similar, I think,
> to MATE's workspaces) each with 16 panes (you can have as many or as few
> as you want on each desktop).  Each desk can start a different set of
> applications.  I don't use it the way you want to (for one thing I
> despise icons) but there is no reason it could not do exactly what you
> want.  Windows can be made "sticky" so that they "stick to the glass"
> and follow you around.  Thus you could have a set of icons that are
> always visible and other sets that only show up on one desktop.
>
> Of course, this does mean you have to learn to configure FVWM.
>


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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

John Hasler-3
Richard Owlett writes:
> A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
> initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
> a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
> <https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
> does for KDE}?

<http://www.fvwm.org/> is what there is.

There is a plethora of man pages, of course.
--
John Hasler
[hidden email]
Elmwood, WI USA

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Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

Richard Owlett-3
On 02/17/2018 09:01 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Richard Owlett writes:
>> A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
>> initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
>> a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
>> <https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
>> does for KDE}?
>
> <http://www.fvwm.org/> is what there is.

That page prompted the question ;<

>
> There is a plethora of man pages, of course.
>


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fvwm resources, was Re: [likely out of luck] was -- Re: Using MATE's workspaces effectively

David Wright-3
In reply to this post by John Hasler-3
On Sat 17 Feb 2018 at 09:01:07 (-0600), John Hasler wrote:

> Richard Owlett writes:
> > A sketchy preliminary web search doses not look promising.  I'll
> > initially experiment with KDE.  Is there a recommended site that gives
> > a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
> > <https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
> > does for KDE}?
>
> <http://www.fvwm.org/> is what there is.
>
> There is a plethora of man pages, of course.

If you like configuring by example, then reading through
/usr/share/fvwm/default-config/config while running fvwm
is invaluable.

These older links might be helpful:

https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/run/ch11_02.htm
https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/lnut/ch17_01.htm

The latter includes:

17.11. Starting Windows on Different Desktops and Pages
https://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/linux/lnut/ch17_11.htm

but beware of cutting and pasting directly from texts
like these in case they're from a previous version
(though fvwm moves pretty slowly). In particular, just
check they're not from fvwm1 which, remarkably, is
still packaged in stretch.

People used to post their fvwmrc/fvwm2rc files in days
of yore; googleable, good for new ideas.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: [likely out of luck]

Thomas Schmitt
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Hi,

Richard Owlet wrote:
>>> Is there a recommended site that gives
>>> a good description of why and how one would use [FVWM] {similar to what
>>> <https://www.datamation.com/open-source/how-to-setup-kde-activities.html>
>>> does for KDE}?

John Hasler wrote:
>> <http://www.fvwm.org/> is what there is.

> That page prompted the question ;<

Google for "fvwm2rc". It is rewarding to add the word "examples".


My experience with installing Debian package fvwm2 two years ago would
have been much worse if i did not have the file ~/.fvwm2rc from my eight
year older workstation. Actually i carry it from system to system since
a SuSE installation in year 2000.

Fvwm is not a desktop like KDE or Gnome but rather a window manager,
which nowadays is only a smaller part of the desktop goals.
It offers no GUI library and thus has no fat applications depending on it.
If you use KDE or Gnome applications then you pull in half of their very
many libraries.

Fvwm is software for people who don't want look-and-feel to change for
the mere reason that another decade went by.
One has to customize it by editing the configuration file, not by
drag-and-drop. It is best used with a zillion xterm windows and a few
inavoidable GUI programs like web browser or PDF reader.

I simply love it.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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