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Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

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Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
install to a different partition.
It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
Where is the information stored?
/etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
of each DVD stored?
TIA


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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Jonathan Dowland
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 08:47:01AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents of
> each DVD stored?

/var/cache/apt/* I believe

--
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

songbird
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Richard Owlett wrote:
> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
> install to a different partition.
> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> Where is the information stored?
> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
> of each DVD stored?

  man apt-get

  and as i've previously said, you can copy the
dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
future needs to reload from them again...

  and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
you can do some minimal install to get the base
system going, then do a partition copy of that
and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
again to recover if you want to try something
else.


  songbird

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>> install to a different partition.
>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>> Where is the information stored?
>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>> of each DVD stored?
>
>   man apt-get

It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
/var/lib/apt directory.

I hadn't thought of looking at apt-get when I posted, even though I had
just chased down some differences on how synaptic and apt-get differed
in how they logged some trans action. mea culpa ;>


>
>   and as i've previously said, you can copy the
> dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
> future needs to reload from them again...

Yes but <smile>
in my peculiar situation it is better to know on which DVD something
resides than to spend ~1000 times more storage space to duplicate the data.

>
>   and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
> you can do some minimal install to get the base
> system going, then do a partition copy of that
> and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
> again to recover if you want to try something
> else.
>
>
>   songbird
>
>


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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Brian
On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> >Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> >>Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
> >>install to a different partition.
> >>It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> >>Where is the information stored?
> >>/etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
> >>of each DVD stored?
> >
> >  man apt-get
>
> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
> /var/lib/apt directory.

Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
On 03/17/2017 03:57 PM, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>>>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>>>> install to a different partition.
>>>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>>>> Where is the information stored?
>>>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>>>> of each DVD stored?
>>>
>>>  man apt-get
>>
>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
>> /var/lib/apt directory.
>
> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>
>

Who knows. I don't!
I has some, but is it all???????????





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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

David Wright-3
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> >Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> >>Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
> >>install to a different partition.
> >>It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> >>Where is the information stored?
> >>/etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
> >>of each DVD stored?
> >
> >  man apt-get
>
> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in
> the /var/lib/apt directory.

(Three levels of emphasis?)

IIRC the command to scan is apt-cdrom. Are DVDs handled any
differently? Anyway,   man apt-cdrom   says:

    "APT uses a CD-ROM ID to track which disc is currently in the drive
     and maintains a database of these IDs in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list"

I don't think the apt suite has much choice about where to put this
information; the FHS mandates it in §5.8.1.

But I don't think /var/lib is designed to be shared between systems,
and so I think you may need to delve into the intricacies of how
the information is stored if you're going to share it in any way.

I assume you can find out which files are involved just by scanning a
disc and looking at the file timestamps. I would also assume that one
disc≡one file rather like the Packages files, but have nothing to
check this out with. If it's that simple, it then just comes down to
how the files link with the contents of cdroms.list. Looking at the
latter, I would imagine they use the GUID in there for the
lists/<filename>. I'm not sure about the -2 suffix I see in there.

> I hadn't thought of looking at apt-get when I posted, even though I
> had just chased down some differences on how synaptic and apt-get
> differed in how they logged some trans action. mea culpa ;>
>
> >  and as i've previously said, you can copy the
> >dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
> >future needs to reload from them again...
>
> Yes but <smile>
> in my peculiar situation it is better to know on which DVD something
> resides than to spend ~1000 times more storage space to duplicate
> the data.

I thought you had copied your DVDs back in 2015. I remember only
because you incorrectly shouted that you'd used the past tense when
you wrote "I have copied…". No, it was also because I objected to
the word "VIOLATES" (also shouted).

> >  and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
> >you can do some minimal install to get the base
> >system going, then do a partition copy of that
> >and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
> >again to recover if you want to try something
> >else.

I presume it's those "previous steps" that interest you,
in continuance of your research into preseeding installations.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
On 03/17/2017 10:43 PM, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>>>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>>>> install to a different partition.
>>>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>>>> Where is the information stored?
>>>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>>>> of each DVD stored?
>>>
>>>  man apt-get
>>
>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in
>> the /var/lib/apt directory.
>
> (Three levels of emphasis?)

Sorry, but I was having a generally bad day ;}

>
> IIRC the command to scan is apt-cdrom. Are DVDs handled any
> differently? Anyway,   man apt-cdrom   says:
>
>     "APT uses a CD-ROM ID to track which disc is currently in the drive
>      and maintains a database of these IDs in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list"
>
> I don't think the apt suite has much choice about where to put this
> information; the FHS mandates it in §5.8.1.
>
> But I don't think /var/lib is designed to be shared between systems,
> and so I think you may need to delve into the intricacies of how
> the information is stored if you're going to share it in any way.

Between FHS and man apt-cdrom references and included links I've just
bookmarked 13 pages for further study. They give answers to some
questions I haven't been able to articulate. There are hints of how-to
{and how-NOT-to} accomplish some of my goals.


>
> I assume you can find out which files are involved just by scanning a
> disc and looking at the file timestamps. I would also assume that one
> disc≡one file rather like the Packages files, but have nothing to
> check this out with. If it's that simple, it then just comes down to
> how the files link with the contents of cdroms.list. Looking at the
> latter, I would imagine they use the GUID in there for the
> lists/<filename>. I'm not sure about the -2 suffix I see in there.
>
>> I hadn't thought of looking at apt-get when I posted, even though I
>> had just chased down some differences on how synaptic and apt-get
>> differed in how they logged some trans action. mea culpa ;>
>>
>>>  and as i've previously said, you can copy the
>>> dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
>>> future needs to reload from them again...
>>
>> Yes but <smile>
>> in my peculiar situation it is better to know on which DVD something
>> resides than to spend ~1000 times more storage space to duplicate
>> the data.
>
> I thought you had copied your DVDs back in 2015. I remember only
> because you incorrectly shouted that you'd used the past tense when
> you wrote "I have copied…". No, it was also because I objected to
> the word "VIOLATES" (also shouted).

That has gone thru several variations, some mutually inconsistent.
That's one of my reasons to work from the DVDs themselves.

>
>>>  and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
>>> you can do some minimal install to get the base
>>> system going, then do a partition copy of that
>>> and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
>>> again to recover if you want to try something
>>> else.
>
> I presume it's those "previous steps" that interest you,
> in continuance of your research into preseeding installations.
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>



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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Curt
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
On 2017-03-17, Richard Owlett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
> install to a different partition.
> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> Where is the information stored?
> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
> of each DVD stored?

https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#list-image-contents

So

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/8.7.0/amd64/list-dvd/

for Debian Jessie 8.7 (AMD 64), for example.

Maybe not what you're asking. But if you would be kind enough to tailor your
questions to my answers, it would be much more pleasant for the both of us.


--
"It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the
far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs.
Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To
the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

GiaThnYgeia
In reply to this post by Brian
Brian:

> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>>
>>>  man apt-get
>>
>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
>> /var/lib/apt directory.
>
> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?

I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
around you?

--
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Brian
On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 17:34:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:

> Brian:
> > On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> >> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  man apt-get
> >>
> >> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
> >> /var/lib/apt directory.
> >
> > Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>
> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> around you?

Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.

> --
>  "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

You appear above to have made a case for boatyards and ships being a
close second.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Curt
In reply to this post by GiaThnYgeia
On 2017-03-18, GiaThnYgeia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brian:
>> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  man apt-get
>>>
>>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
>>> /var/lib/apt directory.
>>
>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>
> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> around you?
>

Actually B. is a six foot seven inch rugbyman who'd crush you underfoot
like someone not wielding a 4" pipe wrench even if you were (wielding a
4" pipe wrench).

And anyway, it's obvious Dick Owlett is crowdsourcing his retirement,
and although it's smart and modern, where's the fun in that?

--
"It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the
far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs.
Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To
the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

songbird
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>>> install to a different partition.
>>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>>> Where is the information stored?
>>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>>> of each DVD stored?
>>
>>   man apt-get
>
> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
> /var/lib/apt directory.
>
> I hadn't thought of looking at apt-get when I posted, even though I had
> just chased down some differences on how synaptic and apt-get differed
> in how they logged some trans action. mea culpa ;>


  a tool like tripwire or even git will track
changes made if you don't trust the package file
list itself.

  an even more lightweight solution is using find
along with a timestamp file as a reference.

...

  as for space, space is cheap these days, it takes
a lot longer to load files from dvd for each install
instead of loading them from another media.  if i
were doing as many installs as you seem to be doing
i for sure would not want to waste my time waiting
for something to happen that can go much faster
otherwise (which is why partition copies are my
method of choice).  but hey, it's your life and time
i hope you are enjoying this...  ;)


  songbird

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

GiaThnYgeia
In reply to this post by Brian
Brian:
>>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>>
>> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
>> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
>> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
>> around you?
>
> Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.

I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.

>>  "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG
>
> You appear above to have made a case for boatyards and ships being a
> close second.

I don't want to interpret what rEG said, as she said this more than 100
years ago, and things "may" have been different.
When most people speak of violence they tend to think of physical
violence, making verbal and psychological violence as a more acceptable
behavior.  It is almost like laundering in a form of violence, and
possibly rule by violence, that I consider unnecessary.

The state for one couldn't care less about who has the monopoly on
mental violence, it is the physical one that "it" is in control of.  If
you have the money or/and the power you can get away with any type of
violence.  Those are the conditions the economy and political structure
dictate and reproduce.  We can try to do better than this, in our
"communities" by not allowing such acts of violence.  Meaning, we must
discourage fascism (rule by violence) in any shape of form.  If you work
for Gates writing code it is OK for him to vent off on you and tell you
to stop pissing about and finish your work.  There is nothing you can do
about it.  If you work for the Mi5 they can tell you to stop pissing
about and get to snitching, subverting, and undermining as you are paid
to do.

All I can do is propose to have a less violent code of conduct.  You can
keep up with your ways and I can keep up being a pest about it!

Sometimes you just have to crush some eggs before the snakes come out
and bite you.

--
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by songbird
songbird wrote:

> as for space, space is cheap these days, it takes
> a lot longer to load files from dvd for each install
> instead of loading them from another media.  if i
> were doing as many installs as you seem to be doing
> i for sure would not want to waste my time waiting
> for something to happen that can go much faster
> otherwise (which is why partition copies are my
> method of choice).  but hey, it's your life and time
> i hope you are enjoying this...  ;)

very good advise songbird

we would usually dd the iso and mount via loop, then use either http or file
share to provide the installer to the client

regards

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Brian
In reply to this post by GiaThnYgeia
On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:

> Brian:
> >>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
> >>
> >> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> >> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> >> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> >> around you?
> >
> > Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> > upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
>
> I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.

The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
"dice".

-
Brian.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

songbird
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
deloptes wrote:
...
> very good advise songbird
>
> we would usually dd the iso and mount via loop, then use either http or file
> share to provide the installer to the client


  plenty of ways to get this done.

  i forgot to mention that i've had media go bad
(both cds and dvds) and at that point i've also
had the installer fail because it could not read
a file from the disk.  copied what i could off
the disk onto the external USB drive and then
used the snapshot repository to get the deb that
was corrupted and all was good.

  spinning rust, usb stick or ssd at least is
more likely to not go bad.


  songbird

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Brian
On 03/18/2017 06:13 PM, Brian wrote:

> On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
>
>> Brian:
>>>>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>>>>
>>>> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
>>>> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
>>>> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
>>>> around you?
>>>
>>> Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
>>> upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
>>
>> I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.
>
> The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
> "dice".
>
> -
> Brian.
>
>

But "data", being a collective noun, may take either a singular or
plural verb.
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/SubjectVerb.html#collective
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001874.html



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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

David Wright-3
On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 06:35:59 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/18/2017 06:13 PM, Brian wrote:
> >On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> >
> >>Brian:
> >>>>>Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
> >>>>
> >>>>I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> >>>>ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> >>>>pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> >>>>around you?
> >>>
> >>>Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> >>>upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
> >>
> >>I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.
> >
> >The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
> >"dice".
> >
> >-
> >Brian.
> >
> >
>
> But "data", being a collective noun, may take either a singular or
> plural verb.
> http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/SubjectVerb.html#collective
> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001874.html

Good of you to settle that. I think I'll avoid the word and just
talk of "files".

How's the other research coming along?
Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
Or is it the 13 bookmarks added to your reading list that's the
only important thing?

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

Richard Owlett-3
On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> [snip ;]
>
> How's the other research coming along?
> Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?

It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain way
because that would be the way they would do it.
I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions. Many, in effect,
say "Owlett can't mean ..." and proceed to answer "The question Owlett
should have asked is ' ...? ' " ;}


> Or is it the 13 bookmarks added to your reading list that's the
> only important thing?

For now. Those links provide the resources I need to answer a broader
set of questions that this thread is just the tip of a proverbial iceberg.

The subject line is my question.
Perhaps my original post gave too much information and should have been
replaced by a single line quoting the subject line.

Perhaps the Subject/Body could have been phrased as
     "Where is what data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?"

Those 13 bookmarks will begin to answer that question.

>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>


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