Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

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Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

aconcernedfossdev
Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?
He is also violating the license grant, Courts would not be fooled by
his scheme to prevent redistribution.

The license grant the Linux Kernel is distributed under disallows the
imposition of additional terms. The making of an understanding that the
derivative work must not be redistributed (lest there be retaliation) is
the imposition of an additional term. The communication of this threat
is the moment that GRSecurity violates the license grant. Thence-forth
modification, making of derivative works, and distribution of such is a
violation of the Copyright statute. The concoction of the transparent
scheme shows that it is a willful violation, one taken in full knowledge
by GRSecurity of the intention of the original grantor.


Why does not one person here care?
Just want to forget what holds Libre Software together and go the way of
BSD?


(Note: last month the GRSecurity Team removed the public testing patch,
they prevent the distribution of the patch by paying customers by a
threat of no further business: they have concocted a transparent scheme
to make sure the intention of the Linux rights-holders (thousands of
entities) are defeated) (This is unlike RedHat who do distribute their
patches in the form the rights-holders prefer: source code, RedHat does
not attempt to stymie the redistribution of their derivative works,
GRSecurity does.).

------
( This song is about GRSecurity's violation of Linus et al's
copyright**:
youtube.com/watch?v=CYnhI3wUej8
(A Boat Sails Away 2016 17) )


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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

rhkramer
Hmm, am I feeding the spammer?  Some comments to the OP interspersed below--or
maybe I'll just top post...

I don't know too much about the issue, and your second paragraph doesn't help
much.

Let me ask, does Linus care--has he or some other noteworthy in the Linux /
foss world made some sort of comment?

And have they started any sort of proceeding (negotiation, legal proceeding,
???)?

I care about FOSS (or foss) and think that "users" in any sense of the word
should comply with the appropriate licenses, and, if they don't some sort of
action should be undertaken to enforce compliance.

So, why don't you cite a few (or one) cogent explanation of the problem and
the position by a "noteworthy" (for lack of a better term).

PS: aconcernedfossdev doesn't "command" much respect in my mind, especially
with no better explanation of the problem than what I read here.

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 11:41:56 AM [hidden email] wrote:

> Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
> violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?
> He is also violating the license grant, Courts would not be fooled by
> his scheme to prevent redistribution.
>
> The license grant the Linux Kernel is distributed under disallows the
> imposition of additional terms. The making of an understanding that the
> derivative work must not be redistributed (lest there be retaliation) is
> the imposition of an additional term. The communication of this threat
> is the moment that GRSecurity violates the license grant. Thence-forth
> modification, making of derivative works, and distribution of such is a
> violation of the Copyright statute. The concoction of the transparent
> scheme shows that it is a willful violation, one taken in full knowledge
> by GRSecurity of the intention of the original grantor.
>
>
> Why does not one person here care?
> Just want to forget what holds Libre Software together and go the way of
> BSD?
>
>
> (Note: last month the GRSecurity Team removed the public testing patch,
> they prevent the distribution of the patch by paying customers by a
> threat of no further business: they have concocted a transparent scheme
> to make sure the intention of the Linux rights-holders (thousands of
> entities) are defeated) (This is unlike RedHat who do distribute their
> patches in the form the rights-holders prefer: source code, RedHat does
> not attempt to stymie the redistribution of their derivative works,
> GRSecurity does.).
>
> ------
> ( This song is about GRSecurity's violation of Linus et al's
> copyright**:
> youtube.com/watch?v=CYnhI3wUej8
> (A Boat Sails Away 2016 17) )

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Richard Owlett-3
On 06/15/2017 02:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hmm, am I feeding the spammer?  [snip]

Likely

>
> PS: aconcernedfossdev doesn't "command" much respect in my mind, especially
> with no better explanation of the problem than what I read here.

+1




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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/15/2017 02:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hmm, am I feeding the spammer?  [snip]
>
> Likely
>
>>
>> PS: aconcernedfossdev doesn't "command" much respect in my mind,
>> especially with no better explanation of the problem than what I read
>> here.
>
> +1

The story behind is really interesting and pretty long. I read about the
conflict perhaps 1/2y ago. Some of the accusations by GRSec make sense,
however they do not justify their policy.
In fact this is the best proof (IMO) how decentralized and open
idea/project/work etc fails. It fails on both ends the Linux and the GRSec
end because the first is not motivated to do good and the second to do good
for free it fails badly.
I do however think GRSec are wrong as the OP states, they clearly violate
the license agreements.
IMO everyone in the linux community should know the background of that story
same as the background of systemd ... but there is sooo much to know

regards



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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

andy smith-10
Hello,

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 10:38:07PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> I do however think GRSec are wrong as the OP states, they clearly violate
> the license agreements.
> IMO everyone in the linux community should know the background of that story
> same as the background of systemd ... but there is sooo much to know

As usual I think LWN provides excellent coverage of this issue.

    https://lwn.net/Articles/721848/

If possible I do recommend people pay for an LWN subscription. The
work they do is worth paying for.

Cheers,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Michael Milliman
In reply to this post by deloptes-2


On 06/15/2017 03:38 PM, deloptes wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 06/15/2017 02:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> Hmm, am I feeding the spammer?  [snip]
>>
>> Likely
>>
>>>
>>> PS: aconcernedfossdev doesn't "command" much respect in my mind,
>>> especially with no better explanation of the problem than what I read
>>> here.
>>
>> +1
>
> The story behind is really interesting and pretty long. I read about the
> conflict perhaps 1/2y ago. Some of the accusations by GRSec make sense,
> however they do not justify their policy.
This is the first I've heard of an issue, however, I'm not really
plugged in to that type of news, so it is not surprising.

> In fact this is the best proof (IMO) how decentralized and open
> idea/project/work etc fails. It fails on both ends the Linux and the GRSec
> end because the first is not motivated to do good and the second to do good
> for free it fails badly.
> I do however think GRSec are wrong as the OP states, they clearly violate
> the license agreements.
> IMO everyone in the linux community should know the background of that story
> same as the background of systemd ... but there is sooo much to know
Perhaps you could post a link where some of us can bone up on the issue?
>
> regards
>
>
>

--
73's,
WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Michael Fothergill-3
In reply to this post by deloptes-2


On 15 June 2017 at 21:38, deloptes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/15/2017 02:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hmm, am I feeding the spammer?  [snip]
>
> Likely
>
>>
>> PS: aconcernedfossdev doesn't "command" much respect in my mind,
>> especially with no better explanation of the problem than what I read
>> here.
>
> +1

The story behind is really interesting and pretty long. I read about the
conflict perhaps 1/2y ago. Some of the accusations by GRSec make sense,
however they do not justify their policy.
In fact this is the best proof (IMO) how decentralized and open
idea/project/work etc fails. It fails on both ends the Linux and the GRSec
end because the first is not motivated to do good and the second to do good
for free it fails badly.
I do however think GRSec are wrong as the OP states, they clearly violate
the license agreements.
IMO everyone in the linux community should know the background of that story
same as the background of systemd ... but there is sooo much to know

​When I read the OP's rhetorical question:​

​Why does not one person here care?​
 
 
​I was moved to say: because they are obsessed with systemd ........​

​But you have beaten me to the punch in a subtle way which I am both impressed and humbled by.

MF​

regards




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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
Michael Fothergill wrote:

> But you have beaten me to the punch in a subtle way which I am both
> impressed and humbled by.

I assume there are other similar stories, but I don't know much of them -
time is precious nowdays. However systemd was inevitable and revealed a an
interesting story. Some time later I read this GRSec story... and I had a
feeling it's getting repetitive also in some extent Gnome, KDE, OpenOffice
and LibreOffice, GTK3 ... to just give some other examples. I think this
reflects the trends in our society ... and too many demanding political
correctness being not able to accept that there are people who don't give a
sh*t, but are worth working with. So both sides are becoming a victim of
their own ego.

regards

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Michael Milliman
Michael Milliman wrote:

> Perhaps you could post a link where some of us can bone up on the issue?

If I was the OP or I was making some statement I would like to back up I
would, otherwise I assume people on that list can babyfeed themselves.

regards

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Debian Buster
In reply to this post by deloptes-2
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 22:38:07 +0200, deloptes wrote:


> The story behind is really interesting and pretty long. I read about the
> conflict perhaps 1/2y ago. Some of the accusations by GRSec make sense,
> however they do not justify their policy.
> In fact this is the best proof (IMO) how decentralized and open
> idea/project/work etc fails. It fails on both ends the Linux and the
> GRSec end because the first is not motivated to do good and the second
> to do good for free it fails badly.
> I do however think GRSec are wrong as the OP states, they clearly
> violate the license agreements.
> IMO everyone in the linux community should know the background of that
> story same as the background of systemd ... but there is sooo much to
> know
>
> regards

deloptes, do you have a link to systemd background information, please?


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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
Latincom wrote:


>
> deloptes, do you have a link to systemd background information, please?

Not at the moment. I read multiple stories in the past few years - mostly
mailing lists and articles from computer related sites. I don't gather this
information, because I am not going to cite it.

Most impressive key systemd developer banned :D I love this story - and some
accuse Linus was ignorant and not politically correct :D
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/04/04/1523231/linus-torvalds-suspends-key-linux-developer
https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2841873/meet-systemd-the-controversial-project-taking-over-a-linux-distro-near-you.html
http://blog.jorgenschaefer.de/2014/07/why-systemd.html

regards

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Lisi Reisz
In reply to this post by aconcernedfossdev
On Thursday 15 June 2017 16:41:56 [hidden email] wrote:
> Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
> violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

It isn't that we don't care.  It is that we feel helpless, which is just what
Bard Spengler is banking on.  "Someone" needs to take him on in court. :-(

Lisi

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Tony van der Hoff-7
In reply to this post by aconcernedfossdev
On 15/06/17 17:41, [hidden email] wrote:
> Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
> violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?
> He is also violating the license grant, Courts would not be fooled by
> his scheme to prevent redistribution.
well, what, for example, have *you* done about it?

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

tomas@tuxteam.de
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 02:25:54PM +0200, tony wrote:
> On 15/06/17 17:41, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
> > violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?
> > He is also violating the license grant, Courts would not be fooled by
> > his scheme to prevent redistribution.
> well, what, for example, have *you* done about it?

Don't bother. The original post is a troll. It has been carpet-bombed
(according to the headers) to

  [hidden email]
  [hidden email]
  [hidden email]
  [hidden email]
  [hidden email]
  [hidden email]

And judging by that it has been cross-posted to even more,
just piecemeal, so to not raise red flags in mailing list
protection software.

I mean: the original topic is interesting, controversial and
all, and there's a lot to learn about licensing, governance,
communities and many other things.

It's even legitimate to grab this opportunity to discuss that
topic (as some have done upthread).

But don't expect aconcernedfossdev to answer to anything.
Heck, I doubt that (s)he has even the bandwidth to read a
significant fraction of the ripples (s)he has started on
those 6 mailing lists alone.

This behaviour is highly destructive and I think it shouldn't
be rewarded. I propose to y'all to start a new thread on
grsecurity if there is any interest in the discussion (the lwn
article mentioned upthread is definitely worth a read).

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Michael Fothergill-3
In reply to this post by aconcernedfossdev


On 15 June 2017 at 16:41, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?
He is also violating the license grant, Courts would not be fooled by his scheme to prevent redistribution.

The license grant the Linux Kernel is distributed under disallows the imposition of additional terms. The making of an understanding that the derivative work must not be redistributed (lest there be retaliation) is the imposition of an additional term. The communication of this threat is the moment that GRSecurity violates the license grant. Thence-forth modification, making of derivative works, and distribution of such is a violation of the Copyright statute. The concoction of the transparent scheme shows that it is a willful violation, one taken in full knowledge by GRSecurity of the intention of the original grantor.


Why does not one person here care?

​because we are all suffering from troll envy.......

The pseudo-angst ridden discussions about systemd on the site here are not quite as  seductive as this post.......

We can feign some fake outrage and bask in it for a time and then decide that we must "get a life" as Bill Shatner advised the trekkies all those years ago.

Where would we be without spam and trolling?

MF
 
Just want to forget what holds Libre Software together and go the way of BSD?


(Note: last month the GRSecurity Team removed the public testing patch,
they prevent the distribution of the patch by paying customers by a
threat of no further business: they have concocted a transparent scheme
to make sure the intention of the Linux rights-holders (thousands of
entities) are defeated) (This is unlike RedHat who do distribute their
patches in the form the rights-holders prefer: source code, RedHat does
not attempt to stymie the redistribution of their derivative works,
GRSecurity does.).

------
( This song is about GRSecurity's violation of Linus et al's copyright**:
youtube.com/watch?v=CYnhI3wUej8
(A Boat Sails Away 2016 17) )



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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
Michael Fothergill wrote:

> Where would we be without spam and trolling?

Where would we be without Bill Shatner, Kay Sievers and alike :)

regards

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Richard Stallman
In reply to this post by aconcernedfossdev
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I am not trying to study the GRsecurity case because (0) it's
complicated, and it would take a lot of time to think about, (1) the
FSF has no say in the matter (it is about Linux) and (2) I don't think
the copany would heed whatever I might say.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Bruce Perens
I think I'll be able to write something to inform present and potential customers of the lawsuit risk and their position as contributory infringers. This is more effective than writing to the company.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Richard Stallman <[hidden email]> wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I am not trying to study the GRsecurity case because (0) it's
complicated, and it would take a lot of time to think about, (1) the
FSF has no say in the matter (it is about Linux) and (2) I don't think
the copany would heed whatever I might say.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.


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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

deloptes-2
In reply to this post by Richard Stallman
Richard Stallman wrote:

> I am not trying to study the GRsecurity case because (0) it's
> complicated, and it would take a lot of time to think about, (1) the
> FSF has no say in the matter (it is about Linux) and (2) I don't think
> the copany would heed whatever I might say.

Could you explain why it should be complicated? GPL states the rights
obtained should be passed to the recipient, so the recipient should be
allowed to redistribute the code (IMO) even if he/she is paying for
improvements.

It would be really nice if GRSec could help improve the kernel security in
some way acceptable by and for the benefit of all. I don't think someone
wants to punish them for what they are doing. It would be better to have
mutual benefit if possible as the GPL does not prohibit modifying and
redistributing the code and demanding a fee, it however does guarantee the
right to redistribute is passed to the recipient, which is not the case
here.

regards






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Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

Bruce Perens
In reply to this post by Bruce Perens
I published an advisory regarding Grsecurity at


    Thanks

    Bruce

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Richard Stallman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am not trying to study the GRsecurity case because (0) it's
complicated, and it would take a lot of time to think about, (1) the
FSF has no say in the matter (it is about Linux) and (2) I don't think
the copany would heed whatever I might say.
12