Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
14 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Patrick Schleizer-2
The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
this please?

Best regards,
Patrick

[1]
Reverse-Recommends
==================
* education-common
* python3-software-properties

Reverse-Depends
===============
* parl-desktop
* plinth

Packages without architectures listed are reverse-dependencies in:
amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, hurd-i386, i386, kfreebsd-amd64,
kfreebsd-i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Brian
On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:

> The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
> After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
> installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
> wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
> this please?

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Lisi Reisz
On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
> On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
> > After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
> > installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
> > wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
> > this please?
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html

Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?  I can't suck-it-and-see on
any of my own systems because they are all up to date.  

Two of my clients' systems are horribly out of date; Teamviewer is playing up;
I haven't sussed port forwarding via that router and on a Dynamic IP, and I
am having difficulty getting physical access.  I am sure that I could talk
one of them through installing unattended-upgrades if it could then sort out
the much-needed security updates.  The rest can wait for the other problems
to be solved!!

Lisi

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Joe Rowan
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:30:36 +0000
Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:  
> > > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie
> > > system. After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package
> > > unattended-upgrades got installed. 'reverse-depends
> > > unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any wiser. There must be
> > > a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on this please?  
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html 
>
> Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?  I can't
> suck-it-and-see on any of my own systems because they are all up to
> date.  
>
> Two of my clients' systems are horribly out of date; Teamviewer is
> playing up; I haven't sussed port forwarding via that router and on a
> Dynamic IP, and I am having difficulty getting physical access.  I am
> sure that I could talk one of them through installing
> unattended-upgrades if it could then sort out the much-needed
> security updates.  The rest can wait for the other problems to be
> solved!!
>

Are they stable? I don't think that a released stable can accumulate
enough updates in its entire life to cause trouble, whereas an unstable
neglected for a year is likely (though not certain) to need nursing
carefully up to date. Stable doesn't get its entire architecture and
its fundamental libraries mucked about with.

--
Joe

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Lisi Reisz
On Monday 06 February 2017 16:55:25 Joe wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:30:36 +0000
>
> Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
> > > > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie
> > > > system. After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package
> > > > unattended-upgrades got installed. 'reverse-depends
> > > > unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any wiser. There must be
> > > > a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on this please?
> > >
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html
> >
> > Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?  I can't
> > suck-it-and-see on any of my own systems because they are all up to
> > date.
> >
> > Two of my clients' systems are horribly out of date; Teamviewer is
> > playing up; I haven't sussed port forwarding via that router and on a
> > Dynamic IP, and I am having difficulty getting physical access.  I am
> > sure that I could talk one of them through installing
> > unattended-upgrades if it could then sort out the much-needed
> > security updates.  The rest can wait for the other problems to be
> > solved!!
>
> Are they stable? I don't think that a released stable can accumulate
> enough updates in its entire life to cause trouble, whereas an unstable
> neglected for a year is likely (though not certain) to need nursing
> carefully up to date. Stable doesn't get its entire architecture and
> its fundamental libraries mucked about with.

The underlying Debian, yes.  8.4 or 5.  The desktop less so.  But if
unattended upgrades does security only that shouldn't cause a problem.  This
seems to be my answer!  Great!

Thanks, Joe.

Lisi

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Joe Rowan
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:18:25 +0000
Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Monday 06 February 2017 16:55:25 Joe wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:30:36 +0000
> >
> > Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> wrote:  
> > > On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:  
> > > > On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:  
> > > > > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie
> > > > > system. After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package
> > > > > unattended-upgrades got installed. 'reverse-depends
> > > > > unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any wiser. There
> > > > > must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
> > > > > this please?  
> > > >
> > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html 
> > >
> > > Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?  I can't
> > > suck-it-and-see on any of my own systems because they are all up
> > > to date.
> > >
> > > Two of my clients' systems are horribly out of date; Teamviewer is
> > > playing up; I haven't sussed port forwarding via that router and
> > > on a Dynamic IP, and I am having difficulty getting physical
> > > access.  I am sure that I could talk one of them through
> > > installing unattended-upgrades if it could then sort out the
> > > much-needed security updates.  The rest can wait for the other
> > > problems to be solved!!  
> >
> > Are they stable? I don't think that a released stable can accumulate
> > enough updates in its entire life to cause trouble, whereas an
> > unstable neglected for a year is likely (though not certain) to
> > need nursing carefully up to date. Stable doesn't get its entire
> > architecture and its fundamental libraries mucked about with.  
>
> The underlying Debian, yes.  8.4 or 5.  The desktop less so.  But if
> unattended upgrades does security only that shouldn't cause a
> problem.  This seems to be my answer!  Great!
>

I am offering the customary software guarantees...

--
Joe

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Mart van de Wege
In reply to this post by Lisi Reisz
Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
>> On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
>> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
>> > After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
>> > installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
>> > wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
>> > this please?
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html
>
> Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?

We use it in production at work. Yes, it can, *provided* you don't have
any config file changes. That, it can't handle.

And forgive me a bit of a rant: it's a stereotypical Ubuntu hack job:
inefficient, chokes on fairly standard deviations from the norm and
badly documented.

I agree with the developers' sentiment that automatic upgrades are a
good thing, but I really think Debian could have cooked up a better
script than !@#$% 'unattended-upgrades'.

Mart

--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
    --- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Mark Fletcher-2
On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 07:24:38PM +0100, Mart van de Wege wrote:
>
> I agree with the developers' sentiment that automatic upgrades are a
> good thing, but I really think Debian could have cooked up a better
> script than !@#$% 'unattended-upgrades'.
>

Standard open source software response applies, I think -- if you feel
that way, why not have a go at writing one?

Mark

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Lisi Reisz
In reply to this post by Mart van de Wege
On Monday 06 February 2017 18:24:38 Mart van de Wege wrote:

> Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:
> > On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
> >> On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
> >> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
> >> > After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
> >> > installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me
> >> > any wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed
> >> > light on this please?
> >>
> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html
> >
> > Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?
>
> We use it in production at work. Yes, it can, *provided* you don't have
> any config file changes. That, it can't handle.

That is very reassuring.  Do you feel like sharing your config file?

> And forgive me a bit of a rant: it's a stereotypical Ubuntu hack job:
> inefficient, chokes on fairly standard deviations from the norm and
> badly documented.

This is what I was rather afraid of.  And I have not found
<https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades>  reassuring, but I note that it
is nearly a year out of date.  I am hoping that now it is a default in new
installations, the config file is basically usable as a default as it stands.

> I agree with the developers' sentiment that automatic upgrades are a
> good thing, but I really think Debian could have cooked up a better
> script than !@#$% 'unattended-upgrades'.

I agree with the sentiment expressed later that I ought to write my  own if I
don't like what is offered, but I am after a reasonably safe way of getting
some fairly urgent security upgrades, and future urgent security upgrades,
done pending my coming to grips with ssh-ing in.  

As a speaker at my local LUG helpfully said the other day, it is the router
that is the problem.  Yes, I know that it is the router that is the problem.  
The trouble is, it *is* the problem!!

Lisi

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [qubes-devel] Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Unman
In reply to this post by Patrick Schleizer-2
On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 01:19:00PM +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:

> The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
> After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
> installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
> wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
> this please?
>
> Best regards,
> Patrick
>
> [1]
> Reverse-Recommends
> ==================
> * education-common
> * python3-software-properties
>
> Reverse-Depends
> ===============
> * parl-desktop
> * plinth
>
> Packages without architectures listed are reverse-dependencies in:
> amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, hurd-i386, i386, kfreebsd-amd64,
> kfreebsd-i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
>

I remember a thread last year saying that unattended-upgrades should be
installed by default, and enabled. I guess that is what you're seeing
here Patrick.
This was on debian-devel - I thought it related to d-i but it may be
brought in as default package on dist-upgrade.

have a look here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00262.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [qubes-devel] Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Unman
On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 02:25:12AM +0000, Unman wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 01:19:00PM +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
> > After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
> > installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
> > wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
> > this please?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Patrick
> >
> > [1]
> > Reverse-Recommends
> > ==================
> > * education-common
> > * python3-software-properties
> >
> > Reverse-Depends
> > ===============
> > * parl-desktop
> > * plinth
> >
> > Packages without architectures listed are reverse-dependencies in:
> > amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, hurd-i386, i386, kfreebsd-amd64,
> > kfreebsd-i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
> >
>
> I remember a thread last year saying that unattended-upgrades should be
> installed by default, and enabled. I guess that is what you're seeing
> here Patrick.
> This was on debian-devel - I thought it related to d-i but it may be
> brought in as default package on dist-upgrade.
>
> have a look here:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00262.html

I was, as so often, wrong. It's pulled in as a recommend from
python3-software-properties which is being installed as part of upgrade.
Turn off Recommends and it isnt installed.

I think that follows from gnome-packagekit being installed, and pulling
in software-properties-gtk, which pulls software-properties-common and
so...

So turn off Recommends/Suggests or review installs before upgrading.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Mart van de Wege
In reply to this post by Lisi Reisz
Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Monday 06 February 2017 18:24:38 Mart van de Wege wrote:
>> Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:
>> > On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
>> >> On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
>> >> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
>> >> > After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
>> >> > installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me
>> >> > any wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed
>> >> > light on this please?
>> >>
>> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html
>> >
>> > Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?
>>
>> We use it in production at work. Yes, it can, *provided* you don't have
>> any config file changes. That, it can't handle.
>
> That is very reassuring.  Do you feel like sharing your config file?
>
It's not different from the default, so that's good.

Mart

--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
    --- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Lisi Reisz
On Tuesday 07 February 2017 14:31:54 Mart van de Wege wrote:

> Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:
> > On Monday 06 February 2017 18:24:38 Mart van de Wege wrote:
> >> Lisi Reisz <[hidden email]> writes:
> >> > On Monday 06 February 2017 13:54:11 Brian wrote:
> >> >> On Mon 06 Feb 2017 at 13:19:00 +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
> >> >> > The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie
> >> >> > system. After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package
> >> >> > unattended-upgrades got installed. 'reverse-depends
> >> >> > unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any wiser. There must be a
> >> >> > gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on this please?
> >> >>
> >> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00117.html
> >> >
> >> > Can it cope with a back-log?  Has anyone tried?
> >>
> >> We use it in production at work. Yes, it can, *provided* you don't have
> >> any config file changes. That, it can't handle.
> >
> > That is very reassuring.  Do you feel like sharing your config file?
>
> It's not different from the default, so that's good.

:-))

Lisi

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [qubes-devel] Why gets unattended-upgrades installed after Debian jessie -> Debian stretch upgrade?

Chris Laprise
In reply to this post by Unman
On 02/06/2017 09:25 PM, Unman wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 01:19:00PM +0000, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
>> The unattended-upgrades was not installed on my Debian jessie system.
>> After upgrading to Debian stretch, the package unattended-upgrades got
>> installed. 'reverse-depends unattended-upgrades' [1] did not make me any
>> wiser. There must be a gap of my apt knowledge. Can anyone shed light on
>> this please?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Patrick
>>
>> [1]
>> Reverse-Recommends
>> ==================
>> * education-common
>> * python3-software-properties
>>
>> Reverse-Depends
>> ===============
>> * parl-desktop
>> * plinth
>>
>> Packages without architectures listed are reverse-dependencies in:
>> amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, hurd-i386, i386, kfreebsd-amd64,
>> kfreebsd-i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
>>
> I remember a thread last year saying that unattended-upgrades should be
> installed by default, and enabled. I guess that is what you're seeing
> here Patrick.
> This was on debian-devel - I thought it related to d-i but it may be
> brought in as default package on dist-upgrade.
>
> have a look here:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/11/msg00262.html
>

Unfortunately it clashes with template usage patterns... and probably
not great for template-based VMs either.

Automatic updates would be better initiated from dom0, since the
templates don't run on a regular basis and there are VM maintenance
issues as well.

Chris