loss of synaptic due to wayland

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loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
Greetings all;

So, synaptic is gone.  What do or can we use for a replacement?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Tixy-2
On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 06:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> So, synaptic is gone.  What do or can we use for a replacement?

Wasn't that discussed at length in april...?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/04/threads.html#00103

Anyway, synaptic isn't gone, it may be not usable on your Raspian
system if the people that put that image together used wayland rather
than X (if my memory of that discussion is correct).

Personally, I've always used aptitude for package management with a
visual UI, being text console based it also works over ssh or other
remote terminal connections. You'd have to get use to using a keyboard
rather than a mouse though.

--
Tixy

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
On Monday 08 July 2019 07:12:53 Tixy wrote:

> On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 06:40 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > So, synaptic is gone.  What do or can we use for a replacement?
>
> Wasn't that discussed at length in april...?
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/04/threads.html#00103
>
> Anyway, synaptic isn't gone, it may be not usable on your Raspian
> system if the people that put that image together used wayland rather
> than X (if my memory of that discussion is correct).
>
> Personally, I've always used aptitude for package management with a
> visual UI, being text console based it also works over ssh or other
> remote terminal connections. You'd have to get use to using a keyboard
> rather than a mouse though.

yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear a
working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times now. It may
be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do anything but
quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit because you're lost is
unforgivable.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Paul Wise via nm
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 6:41 PM Gene Heskett wrote:

> So, synaptic is gone.

synaptic is still available in all suites on ARM:

synaptic   | 0.81.2        | oldoldstable   | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386
synaptic   | 0.84.2        | oldstable      | source, amd64, arm64,
armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
synaptic   | 0.84.6        | stable         | source, amd64, arm64,
armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
synaptic   | 0.84.6        | testing        | source, amd64, arm64,
armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
synaptic   | 0.84.6        | unstable       | source, amd64, arm64,
armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
synaptic   | 0.84.6        | unstable-debug | source

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
On Monday 08 July 2019 08:21:07 Paul Wise wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 6:41 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > So, synaptic is gone.
>
> synaptic is still available in all suites on ARM:
>
> synaptic   | 0.81.2        | oldoldstable   | source, amd64, armel,
> armhf, i386 synaptic   | 0.84.2        | oldstable      | source,
> amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el,
> s390x
> synaptic   | 0.84.6        | stable         | source, amd64, arm64,
> armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
> synaptic   | 0.84.6        | testing        | source, amd64, arm64,
> armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
> synaptic   | 0.84.6        | unstable       | source, amd64, arm64,
> armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
> synaptic   | 0.84.6        | unstable-debug | source

What are we supposed to do when the default install uses wayland?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 7/8/19 2:29 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> What are we supposed to do when the default install uses wayland?

Could this non-ARM-specific discussion be moved to debian-user?

Thanks,
Adrian

--
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - [hidden email]
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - [hidden email]
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Paul Wise via nm
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:29 PM Gene Heskett wrote:

> What are we supposed to do when the default install uses wayland?

The XWayland folks plan to allow X11 apps to run as root, which will
make synaptic work when run under X11. Also, synaptic needs to be
split up into user and root components for it to work under Wayland
proper or current XWayland. Until either one of these happens, you can
login using Xorg instead of Wayland. The gdm login manager has an
option for this and other ones should too.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> aptitude is not a replacement.

 used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
debian began.

 never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by doing
something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle of an
installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and even then,
apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the "problem that i
had myself caused".

 really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for trouble.

 l.

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

andreimpopescu
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Lu, 08 iul 19, 07:42:46, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear a
> working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times now.

I used to be a heavy aptitude user in the past, on unstable (i.e. almost
daily package upgrades). It does have it quirks. It also shows very
clearly what it is about to do before you press the final 'g'.

> It may be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do
> anything but quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit because
> you're lost is unforgivable.

Thanks, but no thanks. Having it exit immediately in the middle of a
complex upgrade just because I hit 'q' by mistake is not nice and might
leave your system in a very bad state.

Once an action has been started it might be possible to interrupt it
with Ctrl+C. Please do so at your own risk.

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:01 PM Andrei POPESCU <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Lu, 08 iul 19, 07:42:46, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> > aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear a
> > working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times now.
>
> I used to be a heavy aptitude user in the past, on unstable (i.e. almost
> daily package upgrades). It does have it quirks. It also shows very
> clearly what it is about to do before you press the final 'g'.

 indeed, as does apt-get (which i much prefer).  ultimately, if you
are... how can i put this diplomatically... a GUI gives you the "nice
warm feeling" on presenting you with a nice warm cozy dialog box, "Are
You Sure You Wanna Do This".

 apt and aptitude it is assumed that you are... well... hum.... no
other way to say it really..... it is assumed that you are... um...
capable of reading?

 sorry if that sounds like it's terribly insulting, there's really not
a way to say it without implying so, because if you don't actually
read the warning - no matter that it's in words that are not
bold-faced and surrounded by a big dialog box - you basically get to
learn *why* the warning is there.

> > It may be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do
> > anything but quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit because
> > you're lost is unforgivable.
>
> Thanks, but no thanks. Having it exit immediately in the middle of a
> complex upgrade just because I hit 'q' by mistake is not nice and might
> leave your system in a very bad state.
>
> Once an action has been started it might be possible to interrupt it
> with Ctrl+C. Please do so at your own risk.

 synaptics i presume actively prevents and prohibits such termination.

 recovery of a system that's been terminated in the middle of an
install can actually damage the dpkg database.  apt and aptitude exec
dpkg to install individual packages, and, as anyone knows who has
tried to manually install a .dpkg, you interrupt that process, as
andrei says, at your own risk.

 of course, it is perfectly possible to f*** up with synaptics as
well: "killall -9 synaptics" whilst it's in the middle of an install
will achieve the exact same level of system-f****g-up-ness.

 if you really _really_ get into such a mess, the first action to take
is "apt-get -f install".  this uuuusually recovers things back to a
known stable state, and you can re-run apt-get {whatever}

 sometimes i've had to do a dpkg -i --force-all {insert package that
failed.deb}, particularly on systems where there's been file conflicts
(very old packages still installed, where new ones have the same
file).

 ultimately, though, there is absolutely *NO* excuse for quotes
reinstalling quotes.  any debian system is ENTIRELY RECOVERABLE
without resorting to the stupidity of the windows mindset "if it's
broke duhhh reinstall".  in really *really* broken conditions (a
kernel upgrade interrupted, a grub replacement gone wrong), you can
run recovery live USB boot media, and repair the damage by chrooting
in to the root filesystem.

in one hilarious incident involving "cpio" i managed to write ARM
files onto an x86 filesystem (in /lib, /usr/lib, /bin and /sbin) *and
still recovered the system* by live-booting a recovery USB stick,
manually downloading the relevant dpkgs, unpacking them and
hand-copying the accidentally-replaced files.

bottom line: if you're relying heavily on synaptics, be worried and
concerned that you're turning into a windows user :)

l.

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by Paul Wise via nm
On Monday 08 July 2019 08:35:34 Paul Wise wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:29 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > What are we supposed to do when the default install uses wayland?
>
> The XWayland folks plan to allow X11 apps to run as root, which will
> make synaptic work when run under X11. Also, synaptic needs to be
> split up into user and root components for it to work under Wayland
> proper or current XWayland. Until either one of these happens, you can
> login using Xorg instead of Wayland. The gdm login manager has an
> option for this and other ones should too.

Unforch, this is an automatic login of the user pi, so I never see the
gdm login. So how do I cancel that and return to a normal login?

But that exposes another problem. That login is before x is started, so
No ssh until I do get to its own keyboard and login.

Thanks Paul.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by andreimpopescu
On Monday 08 July 2019 09:00:52 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Lu, 08 iul 19, 07:42:46, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> > aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear a
> > working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times now.
>
> I used to be a heavy aptitude user in the past, on unstable (i.e.
> almost daily package upgrades). It does have it quirks. It also shows
> very clearly what it is about to do before you press the final 'g'.
>
> > It may be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do
> > anything but quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit because
> > you're lost is unforgivable.
>
> Thanks, but no thanks. Having it exit immediately in the middle of a
> complex upgrade just because I hit 'q' by mistake is not nice and
> might leave your system in a very bad state.
>
in all 3 cases, i had not marked anything, and it was sitting there
showing me a list of stuff I had no clue where I was as the highlighted
line would not return to the top of the screen with the usual up arrow
key, so I hit the q to quit. it preceded to remove hundreds of packages,
leaving me with perhaps 5 megabytes of data on the disk. That was
probably a decade ago while running an earlier ubuntu, but I haven't
trusted it since. All I could was dig thru the tool drawer and pull out
the install cd. By then I had been running amanda every night, so I was
able to recover the important stuff. I still am, but I'd not added the
amanda stuff to do a backup to this install until an hour or so ago.

> Once an action has been started it might be possible to interrupt it
> with Ctrl+C. Please do so at your own risk.

Obviously.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei

Take care Andrei

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Monday 08 July 2019 10:12:31 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:01 PM Andrei POPESCU
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> > On Lu, 08 iul 19, 07:42:46, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> > > aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear
> > > a working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times
> > > now.
> >
> > I used to be a heavy aptitude user in the past, on unstable (i.e.
> > almost daily package upgrades). It does have it quirks. It also
> > shows very clearly what it is about to do before you press the final
> > 'g'.
>
>  indeed, as does apt-get (which i much prefer).  ultimately, if you
> are... how can i put this diplomatically... a GUI gives you the "nice
> warm feeling" on presenting you with a nice warm cozy dialog box, "Are
> You Sure You Wanna Do This".
>
>  apt and aptitude it is assumed that you are... well... hum.... no
> other way to say it really..... it is assumed that you are... um...
> capable of reading?
>
I am not as fast as I was once tested at 350 a minute with 95%
comprehension 70+ years ago, one does not become one of the 1% or 2%
that survive a pulmonary embolism without some thinker damage.

>  sorry if that sounds like it's terribly insulting, there's really not
> a way to say it without implying so, because if you don't actually
> read the warning - no matter that it's in words that are not
> bold-faced and surrounded by a big dialog box - you basically get to
> learn *why* the warning is there.

Absolutely, the worst effect that I am rather painfully aware of is a
noticeably poorer short term memory.
>
> > > It may be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do
> > > anything but quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit
> > > because you're lost is unforgivable.

I should have qualified that with "and it was doing nothing until I hit
the q." I didn't get the "are you sure" popup whose default is no, it
just started hammering on the drive.

> > Thanks, but no thanks. Having it exit immediately in the middle of a
> > complex upgrade just because I hit 'q' by mistake is not nice and
> > might leave your system in a very bad state.
> >
> > Once an action has been started it might be possible to interrupt it
> > with Ctrl+C. Please do so at your own risk.
>
>  synaptics i presume actively prevents and prohibits such termination.
>
>  recovery of a system that's been terminated in the middle of an
> install can actually damage the dpkg database.  apt and aptitude exec
> dpkg to install individual packages, and, as anyone knows who has
> tried to manually install a .dpkg, you interrupt that process, as
> andrei says, at your own risk.
>
>  of course, it is perfectly possible to f*** up with synaptics as
> well: "killall -9 synaptics" whilst it's in the middle of an install
> will achieve the exact same level of system-f****g-up-ness.
>
>  if you really _really_ get into such a mess, the first action to take
> is "apt-get -f install".  this uuuusually recovers things back to a
> known stable state, and you can re-run apt-get {whatever}
>
>  sometimes i've had to do a dpkg -i --force-all {insert package that
> failed.deb}, particularly on systems where there's been file conflicts
> (very old packages still installed, where new ones have the same
> file).
>
>  ultimately, though, there is absolutely *NO* excuse for quotes
> reinstalling quotes.  any debian system is ENTIRELY RECOVERABLE
> without resorting to the stupidity of the windows mindset "if it's
> broke duhhh reinstall".  in really *really* broken conditions (a
> kernel upgrade interrupted, a grub replacement gone wrong), you can
> run recovery live USB boot media, and repair the damage by chrooting
> in to the root filesystem.
>
> in one hilarious incident involving "cpio" i managed to write ARM
> files onto an x86 filesystem (in /lib, /usr/lib, /bin and /sbin) *and
> still recovered the system* by live-booting a recovery USB stick,
> manually downloading the relevant dpkgs, unpacking them and
> hand-copying the accidentally-replaced files.
>
> bottom line: if you're relying heavily on synaptics, be worried and
> concerned that you're turning into a windows user :)

Heaven forbid, the end is near!  And until about 6 weeks back, the
longest any winders install that came on a machine has lived is about 2
weeks.  This is a linux only house.

But I've had to recently buy a windows machine to use as a display for a
redpitaya, a piece of rf test equipment. They promised linux drivers but
they don't work. One of its functions is drawing smith charts of an
antenna. All by a couple boxes that can fit in your T's shirt pocket.  
And at a hair less than $800 delivered in 3 days from Slovenia, plus the
winders box for a display ($350) and printer driver for a $100 printer.
It can do in 2 to 5 minutes, what it took a General Radio RF bridge all
night to take measurements that the engineer wrote down and spent the
next day turning into a chart that if he was smart enough to read, tells
him which direction to tune a capacitor, or move a clip on a big coil in
the right direction to improve the match.  Only intuition will tell you
how far to move or turn things. But this thing can cut the iteration
time by 95% by running a continuous update as the adjustments are being
made.  So most can be made to work well in just a few hours unless the
station owner has loaded the tower so much junk in the last 30 years to
put it out of range of the available tuning adjustments.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Staying on topic for the list (was Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland)

Vagrant Cascadian-4
Several people have asked in the past including myself, and at least one
other person has asked on this and maybe other recent threads...

Could you please keep on topic for debian-arm?

Simply running debian on an arm system doesn't really give free license
to talk about anything and everything about that system, or other
arbitrary topics entirely unrelated to it. I recognize it's not a black
and white issue, but please make (more of) an effort to stay on topic.

This is expressly listed in:

  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

In particular:

  "Make sure that you are using the proper list. In particular, don't
  send user-related questions to developer-related mailing lists."


Thanks for considering.


live well,
  vagrant

On 2019-07-08, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 08 July 2019 10:12:31 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 2:01 PM Andrei POPESCU
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Lu, 08 iul 19, 07:42:46, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
>> > > aptitude is not a replacement. I've hit q for quit and had it tear
>> > > a working system down to doing a reinstall to recover, 3 times
>> > > now.
>> >
>> > I used to be a heavy aptitude user in the past, on unstable (i.e.
>> > almost daily package upgrades). It does have it quirks. It also
>> > shows very clearly what it is about to do before you press the final
>> > 'g'.
>>
>>  indeed, as does apt-get (which i much prefer).  ultimately, if you
>> are... how can i put this diplomatically... a GUI gives you the "nice
>> warm feeling" on presenting you with a nice warm cozy dialog box, "Are
>> You Sure You Wanna Do This".
>>
>>  apt and aptitude it is assumed that you are... well... hum.... no
>> other way to say it really..... it is assumed that you are... um...
>> capable of reading?
>>
> I am not as fast as I was once tested at 350 a minute with 95%
> comprehension 70+ years ago, one does not become one of the 1% or 2%
> that survive a pulmonary embolism without some thinker damage.
>
>>  sorry if that sounds like it's terribly insulting, there's really not
>> a way to say it without implying so, because if you don't actually
>> read the warning - no matter that it's in words that are not
>> bold-faced and surrounded by a big dialog box - you basically get to
>> learn *why* the warning is there.
>
> Absolutely, the worst effect that I am rather painfully aware of is a
> noticeably poorer short term memory.
>>
>> > > It may be capable, but imnsho its also dangerous. Having it do
>> > > anything but quit instantly when you hit the quit key q, hit
>> > > because you're lost is unforgivable.
>
> I should have qualified that with "and it was doing nothing until I hit
> the q." I didn't get the "are you sure" popup whose default is no, it
> just started hammering on the drive.
>
>> > Thanks, but no thanks. Having it exit immediately in the middle of a
>> > complex upgrade just because I hit 'q' by mistake is not nice and
>> > might leave your system in a very bad state.
>> >
>> > Once an action has been started it might be possible to interrupt it
>> > with Ctrl+C. Please do so at your own risk.
>>
>>  synaptics i presume actively prevents and prohibits such termination.
>>
>>  recovery of a system that's been terminated in the middle of an
>> install can actually damage the dpkg database.  apt and aptitude exec
>> dpkg to install individual packages, and, as anyone knows who has
>> tried to manually install a .dpkg, you interrupt that process, as
>> andrei says, at your own risk.
>>
>>  of course, it is perfectly possible to f*** up with synaptics as
>> well: "killall -9 synaptics" whilst it's in the middle of an install
>> will achieve the exact same level of system-f****g-up-ness.
>>
>>  if you really _really_ get into such a mess, the first action to take
>> is "apt-get -f install".  this uuuusually recovers things back to a
>> known stable state, and you can re-run apt-get {whatever}
>>
>>  sometimes i've had to do a dpkg -i --force-all {insert package that
>> failed.deb}, particularly on systems where there's been file conflicts
>> (very old packages still installed, where new ones have the same
>> file).
>>
>>  ultimately, though, there is absolutely *NO* excuse for quotes
>> reinstalling quotes.  any debian system is ENTIRELY RECOVERABLE
>> without resorting to the stupidity of the windows mindset "if it's
>> broke duhhh reinstall".  in really *really* broken conditions (a
>> kernel upgrade interrupted, a grub replacement gone wrong), you can
>> run recovery live USB boot media, and repair the damage by chrooting
>> in to the root filesystem.
>>
>> in one hilarious incident involving "cpio" i managed to write ARM
>> files onto an x86 filesystem (in /lib, /usr/lib, /bin and /sbin) *and
>> still recovered the system* by live-booting a recovery USB stick,
>> manually downloading the relevant dpkgs, unpacking them and
>> hand-copying the accidentally-replaced files.
>>
>> bottom line: if you're relying heavily on synaptics, be worried and
>> concerned that you're turning into a windows user :)
>
> Heaven forbid, the end is near!  And until about 6 weeks back, the
> longest any winders install that came on a machine has lived is about 2
> weeks.  This is a linux only house.
>
> But I've had to recently buy a windows machine to use as a display for a
> redpitaya, a piece of rf test equipment. They promised linux drivers but
> they don't work. One of its functions is drawing smith charts of an
> antenna. All by a couple boxes that can fit in your T's shirt pocket.  
> And at a hair less than $800 delivered in 3 days from Slovenia, plus the
> winders box for a display ($350) and printer driver for a $100 printer.
> It can do in 2 to 5 minutes, what it took a General Radio RF bridge all
> night to take measurements that the engineer wrote down and spent the
> next day turning into a chart that if he was smart enough to read, tells
> him which direction to tune a capacitor, or move a clip on a big coil in
> the right direction to improve the match.  Only intuition will tell you
> how far to move or turn things. But this thing can cut the iteration
> time by 95% by running a continuous update as the adjustments are being
> made.  So most can be made to work well in just a few hours unless the
> station owner has loaded the tower so much junk in the last 30 years to
> put it out of range of the available tuning adjustments.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Paul Wise via nm
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-4
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 11:53 PM Gene Heskett wrote:

> Unforch, this is an automatic login of the user pi, so I never see the
> gdm login. So how do I cancel that and return to a normal login?

Logout and login manually, or disable automatic logins.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
In reply to this post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
(hi gene, hope you don't mind, i'm cc'ing the list back again, i
assume you accidentally didn't hit "reply-to-all?"  or that i did, if
so, whoops...)

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:20 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Monday 08 July 2019 08:37:14 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
> > > aptitude is not a replacement.
> >
> >  used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
> > apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
> > debian began.
> >
> What I am trying to do is build a much newer, rt-preempt kernel for
> buster on an armhf, aka a pi3b.  After having configured it, I try
> a "make" and in about a minute, am getting a missing openssl/bio.h exit:
>
> pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot/linux-5.1.14 $ make
>   HOSTCC  scripts/extract-cert
> scripts/extract-cert.c:21:10: fatal error: openssl/bio.h: No such file or
> directory
>  #include <openssl/bio.h>
>           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> compilation terminated.
> make[1]: *** [scripts/Makefile.host:92: scripts/extract-cert] Error 1
> make: *** [Makefile:1065: scripts] Error 2
>
>
> not at all fam with apt-cache search, I have not found a bio.h except in
> some obvious biology related programs. unrelated to openssl IOW.
>
> The man page is so long I quickly lose track of all the options.
>
> So how would I state the search that will find it if it exists in the
> repo's?

 there's a file search "thing" somewhere, for apt... it's a plugin (i
think)... although i suspect you simply have the wrong version of
openssl installed.

 ok so i do have /usr/include/openssl/bio.h (makes it easier if
someone else has it....) and so i can find it with:

$ grep bio.h /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | grep openssl

and that gives:

/var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl-dev:amd64.list:/usr/include/openssl/bio.h
/var/lib/dpkg/info/nodejs.list:/usr/include/node/openssl/bio.h

shriieeeek wtf am i doiiing with nodejs installed, dieee nodejs,
dieeeee sorry about that, adverse reaction to node.js

ok so you'll need to do "apt-get install libssl-dev" and that *should*
get you the missing openssl/bio.h file.

if you run into any other difficulties with missing packages, try this:

"apt-get build-dep linux-image-4.something.something"

that will install *all* build dependencies for a *debian* kernel build
process... which (warning) may be a little bit more than you bargained
for, you'll have to review what it recommends to install before
proceeding, ok?

basically when doing a build of a package that's similar (or
identical) to an existing debian one, the trick of installing
*debian's* build dependencies for the same name uuusuuually does the
trick of getting you everything you'll need to build that "vanilla"
upstream {whatever}.

problems come when debian sets different options from the default, and
you can always inspect the debian/rules file for what they are.


> My /e/a/sources.list:
>
> deb http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
> non-free rpi
> # Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get source'
> deb-src http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
> non-free rpi
>
> >  never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by doing
> > something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle of an
> > installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and even then,
> > apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the "problem that i
> > had myself caused".
> >
> >  really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
> > mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for trouble.
>
> What the gui is good for is showing you the exact package name to install
> or purge. Nothing else, however capable it might be, can really replace
> the look and feel of a good gui. But I've been corrected before.  Teach
> me!

 :)

 on-list is better (other people benefit too).  these are what i use:

for source stuff:
 * apt-get source {package} - gets the *source code* of a package
 * apt-get build-dep {package} - gets you the (full) build
dependencies required to *make* a source package (with
"dpkg-buildpackage)

those are typically best done in a chroot, for safety.


to find out which package has a file installed:
* grep filename /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list

general package installing process:
 * apt-cache search "keyword(s)"
 * apt-cache show {package} - usually pipe this into more (or less)
 * apt-get install {package} - just one.
 * apt-get --purge remove {package} - just one.

 these are [almost certainly] the commands that synaptics runs,
behind-the-scenes.  for me, GUIs just irritate me beyond belief,
because they typically require moving hands off the keyboard and onto
the mouse.  i even use fvwm2 with "mouse-over equals window-focus"
very deliberately to minimise clicks. this all because i have
recurring bouts of RSI...

hth.

l.

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Alan Corey
I thought it was possible to have both X and Wayland installed and
just start the one you want to use.  Pretty sure I did that when I was
playing with Buster.

I can do
apt search
but then I have apt installed.  There are several package management
tools.  What I like Synaptic for besides the obvious is finding and
fixing broken packages.  You can get in there and take out what's
causing the problem, if it doesn't do it from the menu.  The package
tools work differently in that situation.  I seem to get broken
packages a lot.  apt isn't apt-get or aptitude or synaptic or wajig or
apt-cache or dpkg, but they probably all use the APT library.



On 7/9/19, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (hi gene, hope you don't mind, i'm cc'ing the list back again, i
> assume you accidentally didn't hit "reply-to-all?"  or that i did, if
> so, whoops...)
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:20 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Monday 08 July 2019 08:37:14 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And no,
>> > > aptitude is not a replacement.
>> >
>> >  used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
>> > apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
>> > debian began.
>> >
>> What I am trying to do is build a much newer, rt-preempt kernel for
>> buster on an armhf, aka a pi3b.  After having configured it, I try
>> a "make" and in about a minute, am getting a missing openssl/bio.h exit:
>>
>> pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot/linux-5.1.14 $ make
>>   HOSTCC  scripts/extract-cert
>> scripts/extract-cert.c:21:10: fatal error: openssl/bio.h: No such file or
>> directory
>>  #include <openssl/bio.h>
>>           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> compilation terminated.
>> make[1]: *** [scripts/Makefile.host:92: scripts/extract-cert] Error 1
>> make: *** [Makefile:1065: scripts] Error 2
>>
>>
>> not at all fam with apt-cache search, I have not found a bio.h except in
>> some obvious biology related programs. unrelated to openssl IOW.
>>
>> The man page is so long I quickly lose track of all the options.
>>
>> So how would I state the search that will find it if it exists in the
>> repo's?
>
>  there's a file search "thing" somewhere, for apt... it's a plugin (i
> think)... although i suspect you simply have the wrong version of
> openssl installed.
>
>  ok so i do have /usr/include/openssl/bio.h (makes it easier if
> someone else has it....) and so i can find it with:
>
> $ grep bio.h /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | grep openssl
>
> and that gives:
>
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl-dev:amd64.list:/usr/include/openssl/bio.h
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/nodejs.list:/usr/include/node/openssl/bio.h
>
> shriieeeek wtf am i doiiing with nodejs installed, dieee nodejs,
> dieeeee sorry about that, adverse reaction to node.js
>
> ok so you'll need to do "apt-get install libssl-dev" and that *should*
> get you the missing openssl/bio.h file.
>
> if you run into any other difficulties with missing packages, try this:
>
> "apt-get build-dep linux-image-4.something.something"
>
> that will install *all* build dependencies for a *debian* kernel build
> process... which (warning) may be a little bit more than you bargained
> for, you'll have to review what it recommends to install before
> proceeding, ok?
>
> basically when doing a build of a package that's similar (or
> identical) to an existing debian one, the trick of installing
> *debian's* build dependencies for the same name uuusuuually does the
> trick of getting you everything you'll need to build that "vanilla"
> upstream {whatever}.
>
> problems come when debian sets different options from the default, and
> you can always inspect the debian/rules file for what they are.
>
>
>> My /e/a/sources.list:
>>
>> deb http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
>> non-free rpi
>> # Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get source'
>> deb-src http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
>> non-free rpi
>>
>> >  never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by doing
>> > something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle of an
>> > installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and even then,
>> > apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the "problem that i
>> > had myself caused".
>> >
>> >  really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
>> > mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for trouble.
>>
>> What the gui is good for is showing you the exact package name to install
>> or purge. Nothing else, however capable it might be, can really replace
>> the look and feel of a good gui. But I've been corrected before.  Teach
>> me!
>
>  :)
>
>  on-list is better (other people benefit too).  these are what i use:
>
> for source stuff:
>  * apt-get source {package} - gets the *source code* of a package
>  * apt-get build-dep {package} - gets you the (full) build
> dependencies required to *make* a source package (with
> "dpkg-buildpackage)
>
> those are typically best done in a chroot, for safety.
>
>
> to find out which package has a file installed:
> * grep filename /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
>
> general package installing process:
>  * apt-cache search "keyword(s)"
>  * apt-cache show {package} - usually pipe this into more (or less)
>  * apt-get install {package} - just one.
>  * apt-get --purge remove {package} - just one.
>
>  these are [almost certainly] the commands that synaptics runs,
> behind-the-scenes.  for me, GUIs just irritate me beyond belief,
> because they typically require moving hands off the keyboard and onto
> the mouse.  i even use fvwm2 with "mouse-over equals window-focus"
> very deliberately to minimise clicks. this all because i have
> recurring bouts of RSI...
>
> hth.
>
> l.
>
>


--
-------------
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Cities are cages built to contain excess people and keep them from
cluttering up nature.
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Tuesday 09 July 2019 10:01:44 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> (hi gene, hope you don't mind, i'm cc'ing the list back again, i
> assume you accidentally didn't hit "reply-to-all?"  or that i did, if
> so, whoops...)
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:20 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> > On Monday 08 July 2019 08:37:14 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett
> > > <[hidden email]>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And
> > > > no, aptitude is not a replacement.
> > >
> > >  used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
> > > apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
> > > debian began.
> >
> > What I am trying to do is build a much newer, rt-preempt kernel for
> > buster on an armhf, aka a pi3b.  After having configured it, I try
> > a "make" and in about a minute, am getting a missing openssl/bio.h
> > exit:
> >
> > pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot/linux-5.1.14 $ make
> >   HOSTCC  scripts/extract-cert
> > scripts/extract-cert.c:21:10: fatal error: openssl/bio.h: No such
> > file or directory
> >  #include <openssl/bio.h>
> >           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > compilation terminated.
> > make[1]: *** [scripts/Makefile.host:92: scripts/extract-cert] Error
> > 1 make: *** [Makefile:1065: scripts] Error 2
> >
> >
> > not at all fam with apt-cache search, I have not found a bio.h
> > except in some obvious biology related programs. unrelated to
> > openssl IOW.
> >
> > The man page is so long I quickly lose track of all the options.
> >
> > So how would I state the search that will find it if it exists in
> > the repo's?
>
>  there's a file search "thing" somewhere, for apt... it's a plugin (i
> think)... although i suspect you simply have the wrong version of
> openssl installed.
>
>  ok so i do have /usr/include/openssl/bio.h (makes it easier if
> someone else has it....) and so i can find it with:
>
> $ grep bio.h /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | grep openssl
>
> and that gives:
>
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl-dev:amd64.list:/usr/include/openssl/bio.h
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/nodejs.list:/usr/include/node/openssl/bio.h
>
> shriieeeek wtf am i doiiing with nodejs installed, dieee nodejs,
> dieeeee sorry about that, adverse reaction to node.js
>
> ok so you'll need to do "apt-get install libssl-dev" and that *should*
> get you the missing openssl/bio.h file.
>
> if you run into any other difficulties with missing packages, try
> this:
>
> "apt-get build-dep linux-image-4.something.something"
What I am trying to build is not available as a deb src.  Its a tarball
of linux-5.1.14.  So that cmdline errors:
pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot $ sudo apt-get build-dep
linux-5.1.14
Reading package lists... Done
E: Unable to find a source package for linux-5.1.14

I built it once, getting a result that grub could boot, but a pi is a
u-boot, takes a completely different deb to install a new kernel.

I have u-boot-tools installed but still cannot find the magic invocation.
Theoreticly installing mkimage, then invoking "make u-image" ought to
work, but that needs a debian/control file thats apparently made out of
pure unobtainium.

If, in the built tree, top level, I do this:
bash -x scripts/mkuboot.sh

I get this:
Error: Missing output filename
Usage: /usr/bin/mkimage -l image
          -l ==> list image header information
       /usr/bin/mkimage [-x] -A arch -O os -T type -C comp -a addr -e
ep -n name -d data_file[:data_file...] image
          -A ==> set architecture to 'arch'
          -O ==> set operating system to 'os'
          -T ==> set image type to 'type'
          -C ==> set compression type 'comp'
          -a ==> set load address to 'addr' (hex)
          -e ==> set entry point to 'ep' (hex)
          -n ==> set image name to 'name'
          -d ==> use image data from 'datafile'
          -x ==> set XIP (execute in place)
       /usr/bin/mkimage [-D dtc_options] [-f fit-image.its|-f auto|-F]
[-b <dtb> [-b <dtb>]] [-i <ramdisk.cpio.gz>] fit-image
           <dtb> file is used with -f auto, it may occur multiple times.
          -D => set all options for device tree compiler
          -f => input filename for FIT source
          -i => input filename for ramdisk file
Signing / verified boot not supported (CONFIG_FIT_SIGNATURE undefined)
       /usr/bin/mkimage -V ==> print version information and exit
Use -T to see a list of available image types

And I haven't a clue what to tell it for all those options.  It seems
like it ought to be a bit more "automatic" based on the host its running
on. This build, all of it, is being done natively on the pi it will be
running on.

So I try to build the pdfdocs, sphinx-build on missing list and apt can't
find sphinx.  So whats a guy to do?

>
> that will install *all* build dependencies for a *debian* kernel build
> process... which (warning) may be a little bit more than you bargained
> for, you'll have to review what it recommends to install before
> proceeding, ok?

I have a 64GB sd card, so I can waste space without to much worry.

>
> basically when doing a build of a package that's similar (or
> identical) to an existing debian one, the trick of installing
> *debian's* build dependencies for the same name uuusuuually does the
> trick of getting you everything you'll need to build that "vanilla"
> upstream {whatever}.
>
> problems come when debian sets different options from the default, and
> you can always inspect the debian/rules file for what they are.
>
> > My /e/a/sources.list:
> >
> > deb http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
> > non-free rpi
> > # Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get
> > source' deb-src http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster
> > main contrib non-free rpi
> >
> > >  never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by doing
> > > something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle of an
> > > installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and even
> > > then, apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the
> > > "problem that i had myself caused".
> > >
> > >  really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
> > > mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for
> > > trouble.
> >
> > What the gui is good for is showing you the exact package name to
> > install or purge. Nothing else, however capable it might be, can
> > really replace the look and feel of a good gui. But I've been
> > corrected before.  Teach me!
> >
>  :)
>
>  on-list is better (other people benefit too).  these are what i use:

We are in violent agreement there.

> for source stuff:
>  * apt-get source {package} - gets the *source code* of a package

doesn't exist, this stuff is tar.gz's straight from kernel.org

>  * apt-get build-dep {package} - gets you the (full) build
> dependencies required to *make* a source package (with
> "dpkg-buildpackage)
>
> those are typically best done in a chroot, for safety.

Not a chroot, but as the user pi, on a 120GB ssd plugged into a usb2 port
on the pi itself.

>
> to find out which package has a file installed:
> * grep filename /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
>
> general package installing process:
>  * apt-cache search "keyword(s)"
>  * apt-cache show {package} - usually pipe this into more (or less)
>  * apt-get install {package} - just one.
>  * apt-get --purge remove {package} - just one.
>
>  these are [almost certainly] the commands that synaptics runs,
> behind-the-scenes.  for me, GUIs just irritate me beyond belief,
> because they typically require moving hands off the keyboard and onto
> the mouse.  i even use fvwm2 with "mouse-over equals window-focus"
> very deliberately to minimise clicks. this all because i have
> recurring bouts of RSI...
>
> hth.
>
> l.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Gene Heskett-4
In reply to this post by Alan Corey
On Tuesday 09 July 2019 11:37:17 Alan Corey wrote:

> I thought it was possible to have both X and Wayland installed and
> just start the one you want to use.  Pretty sure I did that when I was
> playing with Buster.

I've  no clue what they did, but after the update that tipped the nitrous
can way high for video speeds, synaptic is running on buster, but only
on the pi's own screen.

> I can do
> apt search
> but then I have apt installed.  There are several package management
> tools.  What I like Synaptic for besides the obvious is finding and
> fixing broken packages.  You can get in there and take out what's
> causing the problem, if it doesn't do it from the menu.  The package
> tools work differently in that situation.  I seem to get broken
> packages a lot.  apt isn't apt-get or aptitude or synaptic or wajig or
> apt-cache or dpkg, but they probably all use the APT library.
>
> On 7/9/19, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > (hi gene, hope you don't mind, i'm cc'ing the list back again, i
> > assume you accidentally didn't hit "reply-to-all?"  or that i did,
> > if so, whoops...)
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:20 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> >> On Monday 08 July 2019 08:37:14 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> >> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett
> >> > <[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And
> >> > > no, aptitude is not a replacement.
> >> >
> >> >  used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
> >> > apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
> >> > debian began.
> >>
> >> What I am trying to do is build a much newer, rt-preempt kernel for
> >> buster on an armhf, aka a pi3b.  After having configured it, I try
> >> a "make" and in about a minute, am getting a missing openssl/bio.h
> >> exit:
> >>
> >> pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot/linux-5.1.14 $ make
> >>   HOSTCC  scripts/extract-cert
> >> scripts/extract-cert.c:21:10: fatal error: openssl/bio.h: No such
> >> file or directory
> >>  #include <openssl/bio.h>
> >>           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> compilation terminated.
> >> make[1]: *** [scripts/Makefile.host:92: scripts/extract-cert] Error
> >> 1 make: *** [Makefile:1065: scripts] Error 2
> >>
> >>
> >> not at all fam with apt-cache search, I have not found a bio.h
> >> except in some obvious biology related programs. unrelated to
> >> openssl IOW.
> >>
> >> The man page is so long I quickly lose track of all the options.
> >>
> >> So how would I state the search that will find it if it exists in
> >> the repo's?
> >
> >  there's a file search "thing" somewhere, for apt... it's a plugin
> > (i think)... although i suspect you simply have the wrong version of
> > openssl installed.
> >
> >  ok so i do have /usr/include/openssl/bio.h (makes it easier if
> > someone else has it....) and so i can find it with:
> >
> > $ grep bio.h /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | grep openssl
> >
> > and that gives:
> >
> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl-dev:amd64.list:/usr/include/openssl/bio.h
> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/nodejs.list:/usr/include/node/openssl/bio.h
> >
> > shriieeeek wtf am i doiiing with nodejs installed, dieee nodejs,
> > dieeeee sorry about that, adverse reaction to node.js
> >
> > ok so you'll need to do "apt-get install libssl-dev" and that
> > *should* get you the missing openssl/bio.h file.
> >
Nope.

> > if you run into any other difficulties with missing packages, try
> > this:
> >
> > "apt-get build-dep linux-image-4.something.something"
> >
> > that will install *all* build dependencies for a *debian* kernel
> > build process... which (warning) may be a little bit more than you
> > bargained for, you'll have to review what it recommends to install
> > before proceeding, ok?
> >
> > basically when doing a build of a package that's similar (or
> > identical) to an existing debian one, the trick of installing
> > *debian's* build dependencies for the same name uuusuuually does the
> > trick of getting you everything you'll need to build that "vanilla"
> > upstream {whatever}.
> >
> > problems come when debian sets different options from the default,
> > and you can always inspect the debian/rules file for what they are.
> >
> >> My /e/a/sources.list:
> >>
> >> deb http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
> >> non-free rpi
> >> # Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get
> >> source' deb-src http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster
> >> main contrib non-free rpi
> >>
> >> >  never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by
> >> > doing something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle
> >> > of an installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and
> >> > even then, apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the
> >> > "problem that i had myself caused".
> >> >
> >> >  really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
> >> > mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for
> >> > trouble.
> >>
> >> What the gui is good for is showing you the exact package name to
> >> install or purge. Nothing else, however capable it might be, can
> >> really replace the look and feel of a good gui. But I've been
> >> corrected before.  Teach me!
> >>
> >  :)
> >
> >  on-list is better (other people benefit too).  these are what i
> > use:
> >
> > for source stuff:
> >  * apt-get source {package} - gets the *source code* of a package
> >  * apt-get build-dep {package} - gets you the (full) build
> > dependencies required to *make* a source package (with
> > "dpkg-buildpackage)
> >
> > those are typically best done in a chroot, for safety.
> >
> >
> > to find out which package has a file installed:
> > * grep filename /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
> >
> > general package installing process:
> >  * apt-cache search "keyword(s)"
> >  * apt-cache show {package} - usually pipe this into more (or less)
> >  * apt-get install {package} - just one.
> >  * apt-get --purge remove {package} - just one.
> >
> >  these are [almost certainly] the commands that synaptics runs,
> > behind-the-scenes.  for me, GUIs just irritate me beyond belief,
> > because they typically require moving hands off the keyboard and
> > onto the mouse.  i even use fvwm2 with "mouse-over equals
> > window-focus" very deliberately to minimise clicks. this all because
> > i have recurring bouts of RSI...
> >
> > hth.
> >
> > l.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: loss of synaptic due to wayland

Alan Corey
So?  You don't need it that often.  I don't get why you can't start up
X and run Synaptic, then switch to something under Wayland.  There's
also some compatibility thing where you can run an X program in a
window under Wayland, don't remember what it's called.

I just ordered an Odroid N2, instead of a Pi 4.

On 7/9/19, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 09 July 2019 11:37:17 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> I thought it was possible to have both X and Wayland installed and
>> just start the one you want to use.  Pretty sure I did that when I was
>> playing with Buster.
>
> I've  no clue what they did, but after the update that tipped the nitrous
> can way high for video speeds, synaptic is running on buster, but only
> on the pi's own screen.
>
>> I can do
>> apt search
>> but then I have apt installed.  There are several package management
>> tools.  What I like Synaptic for besides the obvious is finding and
>> fixing broken packages.  You can get in there and take out what's
>> causing the problem, if it doesn't do it from the menu.  The package
>> tools work differently in that situation.  I seem to get broken
>> packages a lot.  apt isn't apt-get or aptitude or synaptic or wajig or
>> apt-cache or dpkg, but they probably all use the APT library.
>>
>> On 7/9/19, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > (hi gene, hope you don't mind, i'm cc'ing the list back again, i
>> > assume you accidentally didn't hit "reply-to-all?"  or that i did,
>> > if so, whoops...)
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:20 PM Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> >> On Monday 08 July 2019 08:37:14 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Gene Heskett
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > yes it was, and no solution was offered that I read about. And
>> >> > > no, aptitude is not a replacement.
>> >> >
>> >> >  used it once or twice, wasn't impressed, returned to apt-get and
>> >> > apt-cache search, which work extremely well, and have done since
>> >> > debian began.
>> >>
>> >> What I am trying to do is build a much newer, rt-preempt kernel for
>> >> buster on an armhf, aka a pi3b.  After having configured it, I try
>> >> a "make" and in about a minute, am getting a missing openssl/bio.h
>> >> exit:
>> >>
>> >> pi@picnc:/media/pi/workpi120/buildbot/linux-5.1.14 $ make
>> >>   HOSTCC  scripts/extract-cert
>> >> scripts/extract-cert.c:21:10: fatal error: openssl/bio.h: No such
>> >> file or directory
>> >>  #include <openssl/bio.h>
>> >>           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >> compilation terminated.
>> >> make[1]: *** [scripts/Makefile.host:92: scripts/extract-cert] Error
>> >> 1 make: *** [Makefile:1065: scripts] Error 2
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> not at all fam with apt-cache search, I have not found a bio.h
>> >> except in some obvious biology related programs. unrelated to
>> >> openssl IOW.
>> >>
>> >> The man page is so long I quickly lose track of all the options.
>> >>
>> >> So how would I state the search that will find it if it exists in
>> >> the repo's?
>> >
>> >  there's a file search "thing" somewhere, for apt... it's a plugin
>> > (i think)... although i suspect you simply have the wrong version of
>> > openssl installed.
>> >
>> >  ok so i do have /usr/include/openssl/bio.h (makes it easier if
>> > someone else has it....) and so i can find it with:
>> >
>> > $ grep bio.h /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | grep openssl
>> >
>> > and that gives:
>> >
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl-dev:amd64.list:/usr/include/openssl/bio.h
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/nodejs.list:/usr/include/node/openssl/bio.h
>> >
>> > shriieeeek wtf am i doiiing with nodejs installed, dieee nodejs,
>> > dieeeee sorry about that, adverse reaction to node.js
>> >
>> > ok so you'll need to do "apt-get install libssl-dev" and that
>> > *should* get you the missing openssl/bio.h file.
>> >
> Nope.
>
>> > if you run into any other difficulties with missing packages, try
>> > this:
>> >
>> > "apt-get build-dep linux-image-4.something.something"
>> >
>> > that will install *all* build dependencies for a *debian* kernel
>> > build process... which (warning) may be a little bit more than you
>> > bargained for, you'll have to review what it recommends to install
>> > before proceeding, ok?
>> >
>> > basically when doing a build of a package that's similar (or
>> > identical) to an existing debian one, the trick of installing
>> > *debian's* build dependencies for the same name uuusuuually does the
>> > trick of getting you everything you'll need to build that "vanilla"
>> > upstream {whatever}.
>> >
>> > problems come when debian sets different options from the default,
>> > and you can always inspect the debian/rules file for what they are.
>> >
>> >> My /e/a/sources.list:
>> >>
>> >> deb http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster main contrib
>> >> non-free rpi
>> >> # Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get
>> >> source' deb-src http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ buster
>> >> main contrib non-free rpi
>> >>
>> >> >  never had *any* problems - at all -  that weren't caused by
>> >> > doing something incredibly stupid such as "ctrl-c" in the middle
>> >> > of an installation (at the point where dpkg is being called), and
>> >> > even then, apt-get -f install in almost 100% of cases fixed the
>> >> > "problem that i had myself caused".
>> >> >
>> >> >  really: if you ask me, relying on GUIs for something as
>> >> > mission-critical as installation of packages is asking for
>> >> > trouble.
>> >>
>> >> What the gui is good for is showing you the exact package name to
>> >> install or purge. Nothing else, however capable it might be, can
>> >> really replace the look and feel of a good gui. But I've been
>> >> corrected before.  Teach me!
>> >>
>> >  :)
>> >
>> >  on-list is better (other people benefit too).  these are what i
>> > use:
>> >
>> > for source stuff:
>> >  * apt-get source {package} - gets the *source code* of a package
>> >  * apt-get build-dep {package} - gets you the (full) build
>> > dependencies required to *make* a source package (with
>> > "dpkg-buildpackage)
>> >
>> > those are typically best done in a chroot, for safety.
>> >
>> >
>> > to find out which package has a file installed:
>> > * grep filename /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
>> >
>> > general package installing process:
>> >  * apt-cache search "keyword(s)"
>> >  * apt-cache show {package} - usually pipe this into more (or less)
>> >  * apt-get install {package} - just one.
>> >  * apt-get --purge remove {package} - just one.
>> >
>> >  these are [almost certainly] the commands that synaptics runs,
>> > behind-the-scenes.  for me, GUIs just irritate me beyond belief,
>> > because they typically require moving hands off the keyboard and
>> > onto the mouse.  i even use fvwm2 with "mouse-over equals
>> > window-focus" very deliberately to minimise clicks. this all because
>> > i have recurring bouts of RSI...
>> >
>> > hth.
>> >
>> > l.
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>


--
-------------
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Cities are cages built to contain excess people and keep them from
cluttering up nature.
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

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