"Debian" Core Consortium

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"Debian" Core Consortium

Florian Weimer
How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
using the name "Debian"?

In principle, I don't have anything against Debian spinoffs, but they
shouldn't use confusing names that suggest they are more Debian than
Debian itself (or something like that).

Or is this something Debian plans to be affiliated with in an official
manner?


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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Lars Wirzenius
su, 2005-07-24 kello 10:13 +0200, Florian Weimer kirjoitti:
> How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> using the name "Debian"?

I'm not sure I have ever heard of "Debian Core Consortium". Please don't
refer to new phenomena like that assuming everyone knows what you're
talking about. Do you have a URL to more information?


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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Florian Weimer
* Lars Wirzenius:

> su, 2005-07-24 kello 10:13 +0200, Florian Weimer kirjoitti:
>> How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
>> using the name "Debian"?
>
> I'm not sure I have ever heard of "Debian Core Consortium". Please don't
> refer to new phenomena like that assuming everyone knows what you're
> talking about. Do you have a URL to more information?

There doesn't seem to be an official press release yet, but Xandros
and Progeny are apparently using the name to describe a sarge-based
product:

| A spokesperson for Xandros said, "Xandros is actively working with
| Progeny on the Debian Core Consortium."

<http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1836184,00.asp>


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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

martin f krafft
also sprach Florian Weimer <[hidden email]> [2005.07.24.1049 +0200]:
> There doesn't seem to be an official press release yet, but Xandros
> and Progeny are apparently using the name to describe a sarge-based
> product:
>
> | A spokesperson for Xandros said, "Xandros is actively working with
> | Progeny on the Debian Core Consortium."
>
> <http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1836184,00.asp>

They are overexcited, or eWeek is misquoting. It's Linux Core
Consortium.

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Nico Golde-2
Hi,
* martin f krafft <[hidden email]> [2005-07-24 12:42]:

> also sprach Florian Weimer <[hidden email]> [2005.07.24.1049 +0200]:
> > There doesn't seem to be an official press release yet, but Xandros
> > and Progeny are apparently using the name to describe a sarge-based
> > product:
> >
> > | A spokesperson for Xandros said, "Xandros is actively working with
> > | Progeny on the Debian Core Consortium."
> >
> > <http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1836184,00.asp>
>
> They are overexcited, or eWeek is misquoting. It's Linux Core
> Consortium.
No there is something like the debian core consortium:
http://www.golem.de/0507/39207.html [german]
Progeny, Linspire, credativ (Deutschland),
LinEx (Spanien), Sun Wah Linux, Xandors and other are
involved to build a debian based business solution.
Regards Nico

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

martin f krafft
also sprach Nico Golde <[hidden email]> [2005.07.24.1245 +0200]:
> No there is something like the debian core consortium:
> http://www.golem.de/0507/39207.html [german]
> Progeny, Linspire, credativ (Deutschland),
> LinEx (Spanien), Sun Wah Linux, Xandors and other are
> involved to build a debian based business solution.

Oops, that's what happens when one tries to stay away from the
screen. :)

So Florian has a point. We forced Trusted Debian to rename itself
(to Adamantix), and that was non-profit...

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Alexander Wirt-2
In reply to this post by Florian Weimer
Florian Weimer schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:

> How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> using the name "Debian"?
Maybe you sould wait until its been more than a plan to do something before
crying about names.

There isn't anything official yet about the Consortium.

Best wishes
Alex


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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Joey Schulze
In reply to this post by Lars Wirzenius
Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> su, 2005-07-24 kello 10:13 +0200, Florian Weimer kirjoitti:
> > How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> > using the name "Debian"?
>
> I'm not sure I have ever heard of "Debian Core Consortium". Please don't
> refer to new phenomena like that assuming everyone knows what you're
> talking about. Do you have a URL to more information?

Here are more information:

http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/07/14/019221

leading to the more interesting interview with Ian Murdock:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/index.php?p=375

Regards,

        Joey

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Alexander Wirt-2
* Alexander Wirt ([hidden email]) wrote:
> Florian Weimer schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:
>
> > How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> > using the name "Debian"?
> Maybe you sould wait until its been more than a plan to do something before
> crying about names.
>
> There isn't anything official yet about the Consortium.

No, actually, it's probably better to make sure those involved
understand the trademark issues *before* they go off and develop
advertising based off it, tell reporters about it, and who knows what
else.  The earlier the better since the earlier they're aware of it the
easier it is for them to change it.

        Stephen

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Alexander Wirt
Stephen Frost schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:

> * Alexander Wirt ([hidden email]) wrote:
> > Florian Weimer schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:
> >
> > > How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> > > using the name "Debian"?
> > Maybe you sould wait until its been more than a plan to do something before
> > crying about names.
> >
> > There isn't anything official yet about the Consortium.
>
> No, actually, it's probably better to make sure those involved
> understand the trademark issues *before* they go off and develop
> advertising based off it, tell reporters about it, and who knows what
> else.  The earlier the better since the earlier they're aware of it the
> easier it is for them to change it.
Do you have seen who is involved into that consortium?

I'm pretty sure they know about the trademark stuff.

Regards
Alex

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
In reply to this post by Nico Golde-2
Nico Golde <[hidden email]> writes:
> No there is something like the debian core consortium:
> http://www.golem.de/0507/39207.html [german]
> Progeny, Linspire, credativ (Deutschland),
> LinEx (Spanien), Sun Wah Linux, Xandors and other are
> involved to build a debian based business solution.
> Regards Nico

No, there is an *idea* for this, but the project doesn't have a name
yet. If you think that's not true - please show me an official statement
of the named companies using "Debian Core Consortium".

Marc
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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> writes:
["Debian Core Consortium" ideas]
> No, actually, it's probably better to make sure those involved
> understand the trademark issues *before* they go off and develop
> advertising based off it, tell reporters about it, and who knows what
> else.  The earlier the better since the earlier they're aware of it the
> easier it is for them to change it.

Somehow I have the impression that Ian Murdock knows a little bit about
Debian - we don't need to explain how it works to him. I think. Maybe.

Marc, WTF?
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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Michael Banck
In reply to this post by Florian Weimer
On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 10:13:06AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> using the name "Debian"?
>
> In principle, I don't have anything against Debian spinoffs, but they
> shouldn't use confusing names that suggest they are more Debian than
> Debian itself (or something like that).
>
> Or is this something Debian plans to be affiliated with in an official
> manner?

Let's CC Ian on this one and see.


Michael

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Nico Golde
In reply to this post by Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
Hi,
* Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[hidden email]> [2005-07-24 13:54]:

> Nico Golde <[hidden email]> writes:
> > No there is something like the debian core consortium:
> > http://www.golem.de/0507/39207.html [german]
> > Progeny, Linspire, credativ (Deutschland),
> > LinEx (Spanien), Sun Wah Linux, Xandors and other are
> > involved to build a debian based business solution.
> > Regards Nico
>
> No, there is an *idea* for this, but the project doesn't have a name
> yet. If you think that's not true - please show me an official statement
> of the named companies using "Debian Core Consortium".
Ok ok then I understood it in the wrong direction. But
thanks!
Regards Nico
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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Ian Murdock
In reply to this post by Michael Banck
Hi all,

Michael Banck wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 10:13:06AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
>
>>How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
>>using the name "Debian"?
>>
>>In principle, I don't have anything against Debian spinoffs, but they
>>shouldn't use confusing names that suggest they are more Debian than
>>Debian itself (or something like that).
>>
>>Or is this something Debian plans to be affiliated with in an official
>>manner?
>
> Let's CC Ian on this one and see.

The Debian Core Consortium (it's not going be called that, but that's
what the media has been calling us) is simply a group of companies and
nonprofits that build Debian derivatives banding together with a few
central goals: to build a common core that is 100% Debian; to base our
respective Debian derivatives on that common core; to work with the
Debian project to get future releases out in a reasonable and
predictable timeframe and with the right features, so we can always
follow Debian and don't need to fork it to achieve our individual
objectives; and to use our combined strength to finally get ISVs,
IHVs, OEMs etc. to take Debian seriously as a commercial platform.

We're not trying to confuse people, look official, etc.; it's just
that we're all about, well, Debian, so I'm not sure how else we'd get
that point across short of including the word "Debian" in the name
of the thing.

>From my point of view, this follows standard practice for allowable
usage of other names--you know, like Debian GNU/Linux. ;-)
                                            ^^^ ^^^^^

As always, feedback welcome. We're not trying to step on any toes.

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http://www.progeny.com/
http://ianmurdock.com/

"A nerd is someone who uses a telephone to talk to other people about
telephones." --Douglas Adams


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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Martin Michlmayr
* Ian Murdock <[hidden email]> [2005-07-24 07:25]:
> As always, feedback welcome. We're not trying to step on any toes.

http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhonarc-files/debian-announce/msg00083.html

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Ian Murdock
Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> * Ian Murdock <[hidden email]> [2005-07-24 07:25]:
>
>>As always, feedback welcome. We're not trying to step on any toes.
>
> http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhonarc-files/debian-announce/msg00083.html

Thank you, I'm aware of this. :-)

But I don't see anything in here that's incompatible with what
we're doing--for one, this isn't a business (it's not even really a
consortium, since there won't be any formal organization behind
it--the best way to describe it is that it's an open-source project).

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
* Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt ([hidden email]) wrote:

> Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> writes:
> ["Debian Core Consortium" ideas]
> > No, actually, it's probably better to make sure those involved
> > understand the trademark issues *before* they go off and develop
> > advertising based off it, tell reporters about it, and who knows what
> > else.  The earlier the better since the earlier they're aware of it the
> > easier it is for them to change it.
>
> Somehow I have the impression that Ian Murdock knows a little bit about
> Debian - we don't need to explain how it works to him. I think. Maybe.
As long as they understand it.  Is SPI aware of it?  Has the name been
officially licensed as a submark of Debian?  Before babbling to the
press using that name it certainly should be and I havn't seen anything
on any of the lists about that being done (SPI or Debian).  I suppose I
don't follow *every* list, and I might have missed it, but it seems kind
of unlikely.

So, sure, Ian may have some idea about Debian, and that *might* imply
some understanding of the trademark issues but it certainly sounds
like they're going about setting up this consortium in the wrong way.

Get your trademarks and whatnot set up *before* talking to the press
about it all.

        Stephen

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Ian Murdock
* Ian Murdock ([hidden email]) wrote:

> Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> > * Ian Murdock <[hidden email]> [2005-07-24 07:25]:
> >
> >>As always, feedback welcome. We're not trying to step on any toes.
> >
> > http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhonarc-files/debian-announce/msg00083.html
>
> Thank you, I'm aware of this. :-)
>
> But I don't see anything in here that's incompatible with what
> we're doing--for one, this isn't a business (it's not even really a
> consortium, since there won't be any formal organization behind
> it--the best way to describe it is that it's an open-source project).
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  You said in the prior message that
it's not going to be called "Debian Core Consortium", that's good, as
whatever you call it *shouldn't* include the term "Debian" in it unless
you get an official submark of the "Debian" trademark from SPI.  It's
possible that could be done but assuming you can just use the "Debian"
trademark in advertising, communication with the press, or as the name
of anything is wrong.

I would *strongly* encourage you to figure out what name you *do* want
to use for this, encouarge that it *not* include the trademarked term
"Debian", or that you contact SPI regarding getting an official submark.
I would encourage SPI to contact their counsel regarding this and that
anyone involved in the creation of this new entity not be involved in
any decisions by SPI on if the submark should be granted.

        Thanks,

                Stephen

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Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> writes:
> * Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt ([hidden email]) wrote:
>> ["Debian Core Consortium" ideas]
[...]
> Before babbling to the press using that name [...]

Quoting Ian:
| The Debian Core Consortium (it's not going be called that, but that's
| what the media has been calling us)

That's what I was saying in my other mails: The name Debian Core
Consortium wasn't chosen by the people involved, but by the media, who
want to make a reference to the not-so-successful Linux Core
Consortium.

Marc
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