secure execution of drivers

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secure execution of drivers

Ying-9
hello everybody.
   I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the wifi sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs file system  and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know if there is any way to run the drivers on some sort of secure environment so that it fails or is compromised not affect the rest of the system

thanks
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Re: secure execution of drivers

Marcin Owsiany
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:18:57PM +0100, Dani d wrote:
> hello everybody.
>    I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the wifi
> sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs file system
> and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know if there is any
> way to run the drivers on some sort of secure environment so that it fails
> or is compromised not affect the rest of the system

This is one of the goals of microkernel based operating systems such as
GNU Hurd or Minix.

As for Linux, you can run Xen and have the wifi driver run in a separate
"driver domain". I never used xen for that particular purpose, so I
can't help you with that, but some papers seem to say this is possible.

regards,
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Re: secure execution of drivers

Michael Iatrou
In reply to this post by Ying-9
When the date was Wednesday 19 November 2008, Dani d wrote:

> hello everybody.
>    I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the wifi
> sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs file
> system and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know if there
> is any way to run the drivers on some sort of secure environment so that
> it fails or is compromised not affect the rest of the system

No, there isn't (yet).

--
 Michael Iatrou


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Florian Weimer
* Michael Iatrou:

> When the date was Wednesday 19 November 2008, Dani d wrote:
>
>> hello everybody.
>>    I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the wifi
>> sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs file
>> system and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know if there
>> is any way to run the drivers on some sort of secure environment so that
>> it fails or is compromised not affect the rest of the system
>
> No, there isn't (yet).

However, there are less dynamic file systems for which recovery will
be somewhat easier.


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Michael Iatrou
When the date was Thursday 20 November 2008, Florian Weimer wrote:

> * Michael Iatrou:
> > When the date was Wednesday 19 November 2008, Dani d wrote:
> >> hello everybody.
> >>    I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the
> >> wifi sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs
> >> file system and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know
> >> if there is any way to run the drivers on some sort of secure
> >> environment so that it fails or is compromised not affect the rest of
> >> the system
> >
> > No, there isn't (yet).
>
> However, there are less dynamic file systems for which recovery will
> be somewhat easier.

This is indeed the truth, but since data integrity cannot be assured under
such circumstances, I couldn't sleep better at night thinking "Well, my
ext3 undergone another corruption, but at least I don't have to rebuild
that awful B-tree" :>

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 Michael Iatrou (cmyt)


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Ying-9
when the driver fault, I was in the midst of rebuilding the system and
had multiple virtual machines running. The result was that reiserfs
which completely destroyed. when it had recovered more files on
/LOST+FOUND than in the rest of the system ... in short, a disaster. I
hope to find some solution for when the driver fail again


> When the date was Thursday 20 November 2008, Florian Weimer wrote:
>
>  
>> * Michael Iatrou:
>>    
>>> When the date was Wednesday 19 November 2008, Dani d wrote:
>>>      
>>>> hello everybody.
>>>>    I recently had a problem with drivers of my pc. The driver of the
>>>> wifi sometimes it hung and the last time it broke my entire reiserfs
>>>> file system and badly I've been able to recover. I would like to know
>>>> if there is any way to run the drivers on some sort of secure
>>>> environment so that it fails or is compromised not affect the rest of
>>>> the system
>>>>        
>>> No, there isn't (yet).
>>>      
>> However, there are less dynamic file systems for which recovery will
>> be somewhat easier.
>>    
>
> This is indeed the truth, but since data integrity cannot be assured under
> such circumstances, I couldn't sleep better at night thinking "Well, my
> ext3 undergone another corruption, but at least I don't have to rebuild
> that awful B-tree" :>
>
>  


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Michael Iatrou
When the date was Friday 21 November 2008, Dani wrote:

> when the driver fault, I was in the midst of rebuilding the system and
> had multiple virtual machines running. The result was that reiserfs
> which completely destroyed. when it had recovered more files on
> /LOST+FOUND than in the rest of the system ... in short, a disaster. I
> hope to find some solution for when the driver fail again

The fact that you were using virtual machines is interesting: depending on
which virtualization platform you use, you may can create images for the
VMs on seperate bare partitions (not over reiserfs). So, in similar cases,
at least you could keep the VMs in tact.

--
 Michael Iatrou (ozuh)


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Rolf Kutz-2
In reply to this post by Ying-9
On 21/11/08 09:29 +0100, Dani wrote:
> when the driver fault, I was in the midst of rebuilding the system and  
> had multiple virtual machines running. The result was that reiserfs  

Did those VMs have reiserfs-partitions, too?
Reisefs has problems recovering when there are
reiserfs-images inside a reiserfs-partition.

> which completely destroyed. when it had recovered more files on  
> /LOST+FOUND than in the rest of the system ... in short, a disaster. I  
> hope to find some solution for when the driver fail again

Use a better fs.

regards, Rolf

--
... Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' ...

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Re: secure execution of drivers

Wolfgang Jeltsch-3
Am Dienstag, 25. November 2008 06:41 schrieb Rolf Kutz:

> On 21/11/08 09:29 +0100, Dani wrote:
> > when the driver fault, I was in the midst of rebuilding the system and
> > had multiple virtual machines running. The result was that reiserfs
>
> Did those VMs have reiserfs-partitions, too?
> Reisefs has problems recovering when there are
> reiserfs-images inside a reiserfs-partition.
>
> > which completely destroyed. when it had recovered more files on
> > /LOST+FOUND than in the rest of the system ... in short, a disaster. I
> > hope to find some solution for when the driver fail again
>
> Use a better fs.
>
> regards, Rolf

What file system would you prefer?

Best wishes,
Wolfgang


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Ying-9
In reply to this post by Rolf Kutz-2
After this incident, I have been studying the file systems and I have no
clear use for which it does not happen again. The ext3 seems good
option, but it appears that more "heavy" than others. jfs is not bad
pint but, as I've seen, is not very mature yet. xfs ,I think it is the
middle point, but not clear to me. Any suggestions?


Rolf Kutz escribió:

> On 21/11/08 09:29 +0100, Dani wrote:
>> when the driver fault, I was in the midst of rebuilding the system
>> and  had multiple virtual machines running. The result was that
>> reiserfs  
>
> Did those VMs have reiserfs-partitions, too?
> Reisefs has problems recovering when there are
> reiserfs-images inside a reiserfs-partition.
>
>> which completely destroyed. when it had recovered more files on  
>> /LOST+FOUND than in the rest of the system ... in short, a disaster.
>> I  hope to find some solution for when the driver fail again
>
> Use a better fs.
>
> regards, Rolf
>


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Aneurin Price
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Dani <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After this incident, I have been studying the file systems and I have no
> clear use for which it does not happen again. The ext3 seems good option,
> but it appears that more "heavy" than others. jfs is not bad pint but, as
> I've seen, is not very mature yet. xfs ,I think it is the middle point, but
> not clear to me. Any suggestions?
>
>

Based on my experience, I would not personally recommend XFS to anyone who
cannot guarantee that their system will absolutely never crash or suffer
power failure. XFS's failure modes seem pretty disastrous. Then again I
never had any problems when I was using reiserfs, so YMMV.

-Nye


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Re: secure execution of drivers

Russell Coker
On Tuesday 25 November 2008 22:29, "Aneurin Price" <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Based on my experience, I would not personally recommend XFS to anyone who
> cannot guarantee that their system will absolutely never crash or suffer
> power failure. XFS's failure modes seem pretty disastrous. Then again I
> never had any problems when I was using reiserfs, so YMMV.

One issue with XFS is that data which is not written synchronously (IE opened
with O_DIRECT or O_SYNC) or explicitly synchronised with fsync() may stay in
the write-back cache for up to 30 seconds (compared with 5 seconds for
Ext2/3).

Now for correctly written applications that call fsync() when appropriate this
should not be a problem.  But for buggy applications this can cause
significant problems.

One example where this caused a disaster was a program that used the create
and rename method of replacing a file.  It would often replace the file more
than once in 30 seconds.  This meant that on XFS the main file and the backup
could end up without any data blocks but on Ext3 as the period was >5 seconds
it mostly worked.  Of course the program in question worked better on Ext3 as
well once I put a fsync() call in the source...

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