webmail and email from command line

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webmail and email from command line

loredana
Greetings,

I posted the following message to debian-accessibility and I post it
again suggested.

Briefly, I am a "long term" debian user (since debian potato) and I am
almost but not completely blind. This happened recently, so I am still
adapting to the new situation. Please keep this in mind, as it is the
primary problem for us.

I find increasily difficult and error prone to read/send email via a
browser and would like to either use emacs (preferred, now that it
talks, thanks to speechd-el) or the command line.

'Though I managed to send mail to my gmail account by allowing less
secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
it now).

Two factor authentication may well be the only solution for desktop
users in a couple of months time.

Your Institution willl have somebody solving this issue for you, but
at home normal users who prefer to avoid using a browser for email are
on their own.

Once the authentication issue is solved, then any client (not only a
browser) should be able to read/send mail, making life for me and
possibly other visually impaired people easier.

Here is what I plan to do:

* use mbsync to fetch mail locally

* use any tool to read/edit mail locally (I will use emacs and mu4e,
but at this point any editor and mail agent than can work with mail
locally should be just fine)

* configure exim to deal with gmail authentication to read and send
mail via smtp gmail server frpm localhost.

Is this a reasonable approach? Any comment or suggestion? Any other
way of dealing with email locally, without a browser, and to use the
network only for reading/sending mail with an imap/smtp server
acceptable authorization?

BTW, swacks is in debian and it is a very nice tool to test smtp
connections from the command line:

swaks --tls --auth --to <username>@gmail.com --server smtp.gmail.com

Be careful with spoken passwords ..

Loredana

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Re: webmail and email from command line

tomas@tuxteam.de
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 04:24:49PM +0000, loredana wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I posted the following message to debian-accessibility and I post it
> again suggested.

[...]

> 'Though I managed to send mail to my gmail account by allowing less
> secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> it now).

Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.

Is changing mail provider an option for you?

Cheers
-- tomás

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Re: webmail and email from command line

loredana
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [...]

> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.

I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.

> Is changing mail provider an option for you?

Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
address.

Moreover, is this going to be a solution?

Which provider would you suggest?

Cheers, Loredana


>
> Cheers
> -- tomás

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Re: webmail and email from command line

john doe-6
On 8/14/2019 8:02 PM, loredana wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
>> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
>> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
>
> I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
>
>> Is changing mail provider an option for you?
>
> Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> address.
>

You could use e-mail redirect to work around this

In other words, you setup your gmail account to redirect/forward all
your e-mail to an other e-mail that is more suitable to you.

--
John Doe

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Re: webmail and email from command line

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by loredana
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 06:02:01PM +0000, loredana wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
> > marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
>
> I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.

Of course not. It's just noticing the problem. This is a prerequisite for
the solution :-)

> > Is changing mail provider an option for you?
>
> Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> address.
>
> Moreover, is this going to be a solution?

To some things, yes. To others, no :-)

But at least expect a more "normal" IMAP access than Google offers...

> Which provider would you suggest?

Depends on where you are. Over here in Germany, I know a few good
ones costing a small fee.

Elsewhere, perhaps riseup [1] is an option. It's donation-funded,
so consider throwing some small amount into their hat.

Cheers

[1] https://riseup.net/

-- tomás

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Re: webmail and email from command line

Dan Purgert
In reply to this post by loredana
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

loredana wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
>> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
>> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
>
> I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
>
>> Is changing mail provider an option for you?
>
> Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> address.

You can always set gmail up to forward mails to another email address.
Then your friends and family can keep sending to "[hidden email]".
You'll just be replying from "[hidden email]".

> Which provider would you suggest?

Digital Ocean, and Postfix / Dovecot.

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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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Re: webmail and email from command line

Paul Sutton-2
In reply to this post by loredana

On 14/08/2019 19:02, loredana wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
>> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
> I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
>
>> Is changing mail provider an option for you?
> Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> address.
>
> Moreover, is this going to be a solution?
>
> Which provider would you suggest?
>
> Cheers, Loredana
>
>
I use https://protonmail.com/ which is due to get features such as
calender etc very soon

and

https://disroot.org/en

disroot also offers, cloud, file sharing and many other services. 

Moving is not always difficult or can just be time consuming.  I spent a
good few hours logging in to websites, changing my credentials and
confirming from the resulting e-mail. 

It also gives you a chance to do an audit and decide do I use this
service, if not dump it or move the e-mail associated with that to
another service,  2 or 3 disroot services are good for different things.

I had scam e-mail a while back, sent a e-mail to report it, and got a
reply asking for me to include headers, so the developers want you and
care about their user base enough to do this.

Hope this helps

Paul


>> Cheers
>> -- tomás

--
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

https://fediverse.party/ - [hidden email]

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Re: webmail and email from command line

Joe Pfeiffer-2
In reply to this post by loredana
loredana <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
>> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
>> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
>
> I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
>
>> Is changing mail provider an option for you?
>
> Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> address.

For exactly that reason, years ago I bought my own domain (no, this
isn't it -- mostly out of inertia, I still post to usenet using my old
NMSU address) and run my own email server.  That way I only had to do it
one last time, and won't need to change again.

> Moreover, is this going to be a solution?
>
> Which provider would you suggest?

There are multiple providers out there that will work fine.  I'm on
netfirms.com; I'm webmaster for a shotgun club
(mesillavalleyshotgunsports.com) that uses godaddy.com.

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Re: webmail and email from command line

Joe Dennigan-2
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
[hidden email] writes:

> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 06:02:01PM +0000, loredana wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >=20
> > > [...]
> >=20
> > > Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
> > > marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
> >
> > I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
>
> Of course not. It's just noticing the problem. This is a prerequisite for
> the solution :-)
>
> > > Is changing mail provider an option for you?
> >0
> > Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> > human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> > address.
> >
> > Moreover, is this going to be a solution?
>
> To some things, yes. To others, no :-)
>
> But at least expect a more "normal" IMAP access than Google offers...
>
> > Which provider would you suggest?
>
> Depends on where you are. Over here in Germany, I know a few good
> ones costing a small fee.
>
> Elsewhere, perhaps riseup [1] is an option. It's donation-funded,
> so consider throwing some small amount into their hat.
>
> Cheers
>
> [1] https://riseup.net/
>
Just thought I'd chime in here.  I've been redirecting all webmail (currently
gmail and my ISP) to a Fastmail¹ account for nearly ten years then using
fetchmail and nmh (+ emacs/mh-e at times) to read it with no problems.
Sending via their servers and a basic postfix installation here has been
reliable.

I don't know if their service meets the OPs needs but may be worth a look,
and they're pretty cheap for basic email.

Regards

Joe

¹https://www.fastmail.com


--
“Blood sacrifices keep the planet from eating your feet”
 -- Red

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Re: webmail and email from command line

David Wright-3
In reply to this post by Joe Pfeiffer-2
On Wed 14 Aug 2019 at 12:19:01 (-0600), Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

> loredana <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:00 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> [...]
> >
> >> Note that what Google calls there "less secure applications" is just
> >> marketing mumbo-jumbo to nudge users off their non-browser clients.
> >
> > I know. But knowing it, and perhaps blaiming it, is not a solution.
> >
> >> Is changing mail provider an option for you?
> >
> > Yes, not an easy one, 'though. Image writing to all your contacts,
> > human and automatic ones, and convince them to write to a new email
> > address.
>
> For exactly that reason, years ago I bought my own domain (no, this
> isn't it -- mostly out of inertia, I still post to usenet using my old
> NMSU address) and run my own email server.

Just to make it clear, you don't have to go to the trouble of running
a mail server just because you buy a domain. A hosting service can do
this for you, so that you need do no more than read emails and manage
your inboxes through a mail client via IMAP, and send emails through
their smarthost via SMTP.

I originally bought my domain through my ISP, and it cost nothing
because it was bundled into their service. I've moved it once, to
an independent hosting service, when I changed my ISP to one that
doesn't do hosting.

Since moving continents (and ISP), I've kept the domain with the same
hosting service (in the UK). They automatically reregister it
(actually, them) automatically every two years (as they did just today).
It means no change in email addresses every time you move.

> That way I only had to do it
> one last time, and won't need to change again.
>
> > Moreover, is this going to be a solution?
> >
> > Which provider would you suggest?
>
> There are multiple providers out there that will work fine.  I'm on
> netfirms.com; I'm webmaster for a shotgun club
> (mesillavalleyshotgunsports.com) that uses godaddy.com.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: webmail and email from command line

celejar
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:23:23 +0200
[hidden email] wrote:

...

> Elsewhere, perhaps riseup [1] is an option. It's donation-funded,
> so consider throwing some small amount into their hat.
>
> Cheers
>
> [1] https://riseup.net/

I think you've mentioned them before, but how seriously should we take
its politics? Say I do have some moderate techno-libertarian leanings,
but I don't quite qualify as a person who is "working on liberatory
social change" [1], or an "[ally] engaged in struggles against
patriarchy, white-supremecy, capitalism, and other forms of
oppression." [2] Is Riseup still for me?

[1] https://riseup.net/
[2] https://account.riseup.net/user/new

Celejar

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Re: webmail and email from command line

celejar
In reply to this post by loredana
On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:24:49 +0000
loredana <[hidden email]> wrote:

...

> secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> it now).

What is your source for Google's plans, and how is it already a pain? I
have been using getmail and sylpheed with several Google mail accounts
for years, and it seemed pretty straightforward - just set the "allow
less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.

Celejar

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Re: webmail and email from command line

tomas@tuxteam.de
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Celejar wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:24:49 +0000
> loredana <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> > seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> > starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> > it now).
>
> What is your source for Google's plans, and how is it already a pain? I
> have been using getmail and sylpheed with several Google mail accounts
> for years, and it seemed pretty straightforward - just set the "allow
> less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Google's evil comes through the backdoor, without making any noise,
like Wormtongue.

Cheers
-- t

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Re: webmail and email from command line

loredana
In reply to this post by celejar
First of all, I wish to thank all of you who shared their experience.
Be reassured I am taking any constructive suggestion into serious
account and exploring more.

Then:

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:03 AM Celejar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:24:49 +000

> loredana <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> > seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> > starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> > it now).
>
> What is your source for Google's plans, and how is it already a pain?

I am following the google development on this issue, but I got the
date from the mu4e mailing list. I'l post the link, if I can find it
again (remember, I am almost blind and even replying to email is, at
the moment, really slow and difficult).

> have been using getmail and sylpheed with several Google mail accounts
> for years, and it seemed pretty straightforward - just set the "allow
> less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.

In the email that started this thread, I tried to make clear that this
is something happening "now". I use the internet for crossing oceans
quickly since bitnet and I remember whet google was born as
google."org". I am myself a long term gmail user and this is why I
carefully look after main changes. The way email clients will
authenticate to gmail is drfinitely one of them and is going to affect
us for sure.

I may be able to be more responsive once I find a good way of avoiding webmail.
Meanwhile, here is the best I could find toward a possible solution
that may help avoid the OAUTH2 authorization issue by complying with
it.

You need debian buster as a minimum, then look at the gmailieer
package. It seems to be oauth2 enabled and therefore be able to access
gmail and possibly other mail providers. I still have to test it. If
you try it, be careful because it requires notmuch and notmuch is in
the less secure apps list, so you have to allow less secure apps
first, I guess, and hopefully be able to set it off/on as you like
again (if you can, this will probably get a feeling about the pain
...).

gmailieer is GPLv3+ and in debian. IMHO this these are two good
things. The debian package page:
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gmailieer

It seems that mbsync (isink) is on itw long way to become OAUTH2
enableb, too, as possibly other applications. It is a matter of timen
and the free software community will catch up, as usual.

I don't think the authentication issue is going to affect webmail
users for a while.

Loredana

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Re: webmail and email from command line

Jude DaShiell-3
On Fri, 16 Aug 2019, loredana wrote:

> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:02:17
> From: loredana <[hidden email]>
> To: Celejar <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: webmail and email from command line
> Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:03:05 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> First of all, I wish to thank all of you who shared their experience.
> Be reassured I am taking any constructive suggestion into serious
> account and exploring more.
>
> Then:
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:03 AM Celejar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:24:49 +000
>
> > loredana <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> > > seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> > > starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> > > it now).
> >
> > What is your source for Google's plans, and how is it already a pain?
>
> I am following the google development on this issue, but I got the
> date from the mu4e mailing list. I'l post the link, if I can find it
> again (remember, I am almost blind and even replying to email is, at
> the moment, really slow and difficult).
>
> > have been using getmail and sylpheed with several Google mail accounts
> > for years, and it seemed pretty straightforward - just set the "allow
> > less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.
>
> In the email that started this thread, I tried to make clear that this
> is something happening "now". I use the internet for crossing oceans
> quickly since bitnet and I remember whet google was born as
> google."org". I am myself a long term gmail user and this is why I
> carefully look after main changes. The way email clients will
> authenticate to gmail is drfinitely one of them and is going to affect
> us for sure.
>
> I may be able to be more responsive once I find a good way of avoiding webmail.
> Meanwhile, here is the best I could find toward a possible solution
> that may help avoid the OAUTH2 authorization issue by complying with
> it.
>
> You need debian buster as a minimum, then look at the gmailieer
> package. It seems to be oauth2 enabled and therefore be able to access
> gmail and possibly other mail providers. I still have to test it. If
> you try it, be careful because it requires notmuch and notmuch is in
> the less secure apps list, so you have to allow less secure apps
> first, I guess, and hopefully be able to set it off/on as you like
> again (if you can, this will probably get a feeling about the pain
> ...).
>
> gmailieer is GPLv3+ and in debian. IMHO this these are two good
> things. The debian package page:
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gmailieer
>
> It seems that mbsync (isink) is on itw long way to become OAUTH2
> enableb, too, as possibly other applications. It is a matter of timen
> and the free software community will catch up, as usual.
>
> I don't think the authentication issue is going to affect webmail
> users for a while.

Running using 2fa may be possible with non-browser apps if your security
records indicate you ran with what google considers an untrusted app and
google has it listed.  You can generate an app-specific password for the
non-browser app and will need to save it.  Then you modify your
non-browser app settings on local machine and key in that app-specific
password in place of the other password you used earlier.  This has been
documented for mutt as being possible and may work for other non-browser
apps too.  You'll need to give google a mobile number for account
recovery and the like too.

> > Loredana > >

--

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Re: webmail and email from command line

loredana
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:51 PM Jude DaShiell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Running using 2fa may be possible with non-browser apps if your security
> records indicate you ran with what google considers an untrusted app and
> google has it listed.  You can generate an app-specific password for the
> non-browser app and will need to save it.  Then you modify your
> non-browser app settings on local machine and key in that app-specific
> password in place of the other password you used earlier.  This has been
> documented for mutt as being possible and may work for other non-browser
> apps too.  You'll need to give google a mobile number for account
> recovery and the like too.

Yes, that should work too (see the first mail in this thread).

But ... what stopped me and made me think is: what if I prefer to have
access to "my" mail without giving up a mobile or not so mobile
telephone number?

I am happier if this is made possible for everybody who prefer so via
a free application. Not sure gmailieer is going to work, not until I
try it. Bu it looks promising.

Cheers,
Loredana

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Re: webmail and email from command line

lena-3
In reply to this post by john doe-6
Hi Loredana,

I agree with other debianers that setting a forward to another email
provider for now should be the easiest option.

I think it would be a good idea to find an email provider that allows
smtp/imap clients, and as far as I know protonmail does it only in Pro
version. I know there is posteo.de that does. Also, there should be
some small local email providers in your area, the services are usually
on fee (normally quite low) but you gain direct support with setups and
all the rest.

As for command line email clients, probably the most complete one is
Mutt. There is a guide from a year ago on how to configure it with gmail
here: https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/wikis/UseCases/Gmail

I know mutt allows different security features, but it surpass my
experience with it, as gmail might be demanding and moody in allowing
external clients.

You can actually set mutt and emacs to work together as explained here:
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/wikis/MuttFaq/Editor#how-do-i-configure-mutt-to-use-mail-mode-in-emacs
or here https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MuttInEmacs 

If you decide for mutt and stumble across configuration problems, you
can look for support in sdf.org community. It is a command-line based
community (you login over ssh) with an important part of blind users,
so surely they will be more knowledgeble than I am :smiley:

I hope this helps,
best regards,
~l.


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Re: webmail and email from command line

Jude DaShiell-3
In reply to this post by loredana
anyone who needs that, needs a burner account.  Those are lots less
permanent and when your account is taken by someone else since you have
no way to recover that account it's understood whatever you had in it
was encrypted and is disposible.  Google provides a higher level of
management than you need for this kind of account.  The aol "service" it
turns out had these kind of accounts which once a screen name was taken
over you lost the account that went with it.
Search for public internet sites and check out what mail services those
have to offer and I think you'll be happy.

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019, loredana wrote:

> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 11:26:53
> From: loredana <[hidden email]>
> To: Jude DaShiell <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: webmail and email from command line
> Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 13:27:39 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:51 PM Jude DaShiell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Running using 2fa may be possible with non-browser apps if your security
> > records indicate you ran with what google considers an untrusted app and
> > google has it listed.  You can generate an app-specific password for the
> > non-browser app and will need to save it.  Then you modify your
> > non-browser app settings on local machine and key in that app-specific
> > password in place of the other password you used earlier.  This has been
> > documented for mutt as being possible and may work for other non-browser
> > apps too.  You'll need to give google a mobile number for account
> > recovery and the like too.
>
> Yes, that should work too (see the first mail in this thread).
>
> But ... what stopped me and made me think is: what if I prefer to have
> access to "my" mail without giving up a mobile or not so mobile
> telephone number?
>
> I am happier if this is made possible for everybody who prefer so via
> a free application. Not sure gmailieer is going to work, not until I
> try it. Bu it looks promising.
>
> Cheers,
> Loredana
>
>

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Re: webmail and email from command line

celejar
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:10:35 +0200
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 16:24:49 +0000
> > loredana <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > secure applications, this is likely not to be a viable solution (it
> > > seems that google is going to forbit less secure application access
> > > starting November first of this year and it is already a pain to use
> > > it now).
> >
> > What is your source for Google's plans, and how is it already a pain? I
> > have been using getmail and sylpheed with several Google mail accounts
> > for years, and it seemed pretty straightforward - just set the "allow
> > less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Google's evil comes through the backdoor, without making any noise,
> like Wormtongue.

Explain, please?

Celejar

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Re: webmail and email from command line

tomas@tuxteam.de
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 05:19:28PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:10:35 +0200
> <[hidden email]> wrote:

[...]

> > > less secure apps" option, and then configure POP3 / SMTP normally.
> >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Google's evil comes through the backdoor, without making any noise,
> > like Wormtongue.
>
> Explain, please?

Allow me to be short, since off-topic for this thread and most probably
off-topic for the list.

In the specific case above, first of all, definitional power ("we get
to say what is secure").

In general,

 - dominance on the server (adwords, visibility in search engines...)
   and on the client (Chrome/Chromium, Android) side.

 - mindshare: developers get used to do things "the Google way"

 - mindshare (II): users perceive an app as broken if it works
   differently

 - subtle behavioural knowledge about almost anyone on or near
   the 'net

(I'm sure you can think of two or three more).

IMO they're far too big.

Cheers
-- t

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