why can't I visit this web site

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why can't I visit this web site

Long Wind
this is really unbelievable
I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

http://www.cs.ecitic.com/

I can visit it with XP/firefox

can you help me and test the site?

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Ben Finney-3
Long Wind <[hidden email]> writes:

> this is really unbelievable
> I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection
times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of
the monitor into your face?

> can you help me and test the site?

You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can
know whether they're experiencing the same.

--
 \     “Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands |
  `\                                             it.” —Albert Einstein |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Long Wind
On 06/05/2017 07:12 PM, Long Wind wrote:

> this is really unbelievable
> I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel
>
> http://www.cs.ecitic.com/
>
> I can visit it with XP/firefox
>
> can you help me and test the site?
>
>

Using Stretch and SeaMonkey 2.46 with JavaScript and cookies *DISABLED*
It loads something but _displays_ nothing.
Displaying web page by using CNTRL-U reveals a VERY long single line
containing JavaScript.

I avoid unknown sites that display nothing unless JavaScript enabled.
YMMV



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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Long Wind
In reply to this post by Long Wind
i am not at home and can't use debian pc

my problem is like Richard's description
it loads sth., but display nothing

thanks!



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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Ben Finney-3
Long Wind <[hidden email]> writes:

> i am not at home and can't use debian pc

That's okay. We can wait until you are able to reply properly.

--
 \       “Are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Umm, I think so, Don |
  `\          Cerebro, but, umm, why would Sophia Loren do a musical?” |
_o__)                                           —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Lisi Reisz
In reply to this post by Ben Finney-3
On Tuesday 06 June 2017 01:37:22 Ben Finney wrote:

> Long Wind <[hidden email]> writes:
> > this is really unbelievable
> > I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel
>
> What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection
> times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of
> the monitor into your face?
>
> > can you help me and test the site?
>
> You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can
> know whether they're experiencing the same.

I got an error message: "Unknown host www.cs.ecitic.com"

Lisi

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by Richard Owlett-3
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On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 07:38:05PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/05/2017 07:12 PM, Long Wind wrote:
> >this is really unbelievable
> >I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

> Using Stretch and SeaMonkey 2.46 with JavaScript and cookies *DISABLED*
> It loads something but _displays_ nothing.
> Displaying web page by using CNTRL-U reveals a VERY long single line
> containing JavaScript.

Same here. Host resolves alright, page loads, but is Javascript-only.

> I avoid unknown sites that display nothing unless JavaScript enabled.
> YMMV

Heh. So we're at least *two* :-)

I'd go further: I consider a page which refuses to show anything when
Javascript is disabled as highly suspicious -- borderline malware.

(Yeah, I know, I know: The Internet is evolving, blah, blah. Not in
a good direction, IMO).

As Richard says: YMMV.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Long Wind
i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie

iceweasel does not support javascript?

i think iceweasel makes poor choice
XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Thomas Schmitt
Hi,

Long Wind wrote:
> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie
> iceweasel does not support javascript?

It did for me by default.  I rather had to riddle how to disable it.

I go to pseudo URL
  about:config
to see a long list of adjustable properties.
When i type into the "Search" field:
  java
the second item in the now reduced list becomes
  javacript.enabled
I doubleclick to toggle between values "false" and "true".

After having gone back to the page which needs Javascript, i reload that
page to see its content ... and all the awful Javascript frippery.
(I looked up "Firlefanz" in dict.cc, "frippery" was funniest.)

As soon as possible i disable Javascript again.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

tomas@tuxteam.de
In reply to this post by Long Wind
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie

They have taken it out: it's "always enabled" unless you dig into
about:config.

Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.

> iceweasel does not support javascript?

It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.

> i think iceweasel makes poor choice

I agree (although we are talking about slightly different things :)

> XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site

I have no idea what incompatible code "this site" uses. Or what
else is going on (perhaps some other site, which that page needs
to work, is being blocked in one but not in the other installation).

I would say the problem lies in bad javascript code in that site,
although I don't feel like debugging some random javascript code
off the 'net. It's too depressing.

Regards
- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

rhkramer
In reply to this post by Long Wind
Just as a data point, it seems to work for me in Wheezy / Iceweasel / Firefox
ESR--I see lots of content, but all in a foreign language using--what's the
right word?--pictographs?--those "picture characters" used in several far east
languages (e.g., Chinese).

On Monday, June 05, 2017 08:12:41 PM Long Wind wrote:
> this is really unbelievable
> I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel
>
> http://www.cs.ecitic.com/
>
> I can visit it with XP/firefox
>
> can you help me and test the site?

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Joe Rowan
In reply to this post by Long Wind
On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:06:30 +0800
Long Wind <[hidden email]> wrote:

> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie
>

In about:config. Type that into the address bar, then in the Search
box, type javascript. The global disable is called javascript.enable.

More commonly, firefox/iceweasel users use NoScript or other selective
javascript enabler.

> iceweasel does not support javascript?

Every version that I've seen does. It has always been Firefox by
another name, but usually not the current version.
>
> i think iceweasel makes poor choice
> XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site
>

And many web developers don't bother to test Firefox versions, because
obviously, people only use Microsoft web browsers. Two hours ago, I
completely failed to download something from a site after logging in to
it, using the current Firefox on Win8. I then tried the same exercise
with an older Firefox on Linux, and it worked perfectly. Unusual, I
have to say, it's more often the other way around, but clearly the web
developer had done something wrong. The web protocol for downloading is
trivial and shouldn't even require javascript. But something clever had
been done about restricting the download to logged-in account holders,
and it wasn't behaving as expected. Sturgeon's Revelation applies to
websites, and in particular, to their developers.

--
Joe

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

rhkramer
In reply to this post by Lisi Reisz

> On Tuesday 06 June 2017 01:37:22 Ben Finney wrote:
> > WA boxing glove on a spring pops out of
> > the monitor into your face?
> >

Sounds like the next step in UI design, in fact, it might be a real "gooey"
UI.  <sorry>

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Greg Wooledge
In reply to this post by tomas@tuxteam.de
On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 02:32:21PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > iceweasel does not support javascript?
>
> It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.

You may want to try the NoScript extension.  It disables all Javascript
by default, and allows you to turn it on for specific domains.

https://noscript.net/

For some people, it may be too aggressive.  It depends on what web
sites you intend to use.

> Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
> to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.

In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
"forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox

So, uh, good luck.

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

tomas@tuxteam.de
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:54:49AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 02:32:21PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > > iceweasel does not support javascript?
> >
> > It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.
>
> You may want to try the NoScript extension.  It disables all Javascript
> by default, and allows you to turn it on for specific domains.
>
> https://noscript.net/
>
> For some people, it may be too aggressive.  It depends on what web
> sites you intend to use.

I know that. I prefer something more aggressive: disabling Javascript
in about:config (and disabling quite a few other things, btw), and
using that as my default browsing profile.

Then I have a couple of other (separate) profiles for very specific
pages. Pages which don't work without javascript usually don't interest
me.

> > Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
> > to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.
>
> In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
> "forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
> to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
> started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
> out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox
>
> So, uh, good luck.

I know. I suppose that it's a question of perspective. I've had
discussions with Firefox people, and while they most probably
are well intentioned, their vision is very biased. For one example,
they reason that taking away the "disable javascript" switch
is based on telemetry: it causes problems for some users.

But that this keeps many beginners from experimenting and
learning, and at the same time re-inforces "web programmers"
in their use of horrific frameworks which rely on more and
more programs running client-side... that's something they
only view as a Good Thing (just think about how much Mozilla
has invested on a well-performing Javascript implementation.
Heck, the PDF viewer is written in Javascript these days:
an impressive technical feat, and many nifty tricks in
there, but... no, thanks!).

For me, it's a Bad Thing, because it makes the interface
between the service and my computer ever more obfuscated
(was: a document in an ugly, but somewhat specified language,
is: some obscure protocol which only the service provider[1]
controls, since (s)he develops server and client-side parts
in lockstep).

So thanks, but no thanks. Call me luddite if you want, but
I don't like the path things are taking. Things may have a
free license, but are becoming so obfuscated as to be effectively
non-free.

Cheers

[1] Or the service provider's framework provider (who these
   days is mostly Google or Facebook because distributed
   programming Is Hard and needs lots of resources).

- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Richard Owlett-3
In reply to this post by Greg Wooledge
On 06/06/2017 07:54 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> [snip]
>
>> Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
>> to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.
>
> In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
> "forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
> to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
> started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
> out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox
>
> So, uh, good luck.
>

There is SeaMonkey <https://www.seamonkey-project.org/>
I'm running their default Linux package on both Jessie and Stretch with
Mate DE with no problems.

I abandoned Firefox and Thunderbird before abandoning WinXP ;/




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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Jude DaShiell-3
In reply to this post by Ben Finney-3
I visited the site with lynx and got error 521 which I've never
encountered before. error 500's indicate access is forbidden generally
if memory serves.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2017, Ben Finney wrote:

> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:37:22
> From: Ben Finney <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: why can't I visit this web site
> Resent-Date: Tue,  6 Jun 2017 00:37:47 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> Long Wind <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> this is really unbelievable
>> I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel
>
> What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection
> times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of
> the monitor into your face?
>
>> can you help me and test the site?
>
> You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can
> know whether they're experiencing the same.
>
>

--

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Dan Purgert
Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I visited the site with lynx and got error 521 which I've never
> encountered before. error 500's indicate access is forbidden generally
> if memory serves.

500 errors are the server responding that it cannot fulfill your
request.  Wikipedia[1] shows 521 specifically as a custom (i.e. "specific
service only" vs. global) code used by Cloudflare to indicate the target
server is down.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes


--
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|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Greg Wooledge
In reply to this post by Jude DaShiell-3
On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 12:00:47PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I visited the site with lynx and got error 521 which I've never
> encountered before. error 500's indicate access is forbidden generally
> if memory serves.

HTTP 521 is "Web server is down", which is really confusing (obviously
it's not down or you wouldn't have been able to connect to it to get
that error).

Googling gives
https://serverfault.com/questions/845544/error-521-cloudflare-with-https-while-http-works
which suggests that perhaps the hostname is pointing to the wrong IP
addreess.

$ host www.cs.ecitic.com
www.cs.ecitic.com is a nickname for www.cs.ecitic.chinacache.net
www.cs.ecitic.chinacache.net is a nickname for f2a4b54c455789a5.cdn.jiashule.com
f2a4b54c455789a5.cdn.jiashule.com has address 219.153.73.220
f2a4b54c455789a5.cdn.jiashule.com has address 219.153.73.219

There are two IPs (basic DNS round robin), so it's possible that
one of them is "right" and one is "wrong", and each person testing
has a 50/50 shot of hitting the "wrong" IP.

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Re: why can't I visit this web site

Ken Heard-2
In reply to this post by rhkramer
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On 06/06/17 08:44 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Just as a data point, it seems to work for me in Wheezy / Iceweasel
> / Firefox ESR--I see lots of content, but all in a foreign language
> using--what's the right word?--pictographs?--those "picture
> characters" used in several far east languages (e.g., Chinese).

I think the word you want is one of logogram, logograph or
grammalogue, meaning in all three cases a word represented by a single
sign.

Ken


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